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09/04/2008 11:35:47 AM · #26 |
Originally posted by citymars:
Although "DNMC" is blunt, what is there to elaborate on? Is it any clearer to write "DNMC, I don't see the connection to the theme" or "DNMC, where is the ____?" |
My sentiments exactly. Did not meet challenge kind of says it all to me.
DNMC's have improved my photography.
Actually that's not true b/c I never received a DNMC in 19 challenges.
Someone should start a thread that asks to post our DNMC images so we can discuss this further. |
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09/04/2008 12:07:09 PM · #27 |
Originally posted by sfalice:
It is interesting, and sometimes fun, to check the decisions of others when I
(very occasionally) check to see if my comments on other
images have been helpful. |
I do this as well. I like to go back to my comments after the challenge and see if my own judgment lines up with what others said. Sometimes you will see two commenters with opposite opinions on the same characteristic of a shot.
Message edited by author 2008-09-04 13:31:03. |
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09/04/2008 12:25:27 PM · #28 |
This topic turned out much more fruitful than I had hoped it would. It is very interesting the variance of your replies as well. I had expected everyone to suggest marking all comments helpful. I see a few did but not everyone. So from what I can gather, I should make up my own mind. :)
The person prompting this topic seems to have a higher than usual history of DNMCing comments, most I would agree with, however it is obvious they are applying the most literal view to any topic.
I think they have good intentions, it would be kind to mark their comment helpful, but is it actually helpful, does it make me see the image differently, does it suggest a different direction I could have taken. If I mark the comment as helpful will they continue to view entries in the same way? If I don't will they learn to be more open about entries meeting the topic.
This is part that is confusing to me, I am thankful they took the time to comment (it was a verbose DNMC), however at the same time I believe they are wrong and I didn't find the comment helpful. I really wish I had more options than either clicking a checkbox, or confronting them via PM. I really wish for a more detailed way to mark comments.
Thanks again everyone for being so open, please do not let this reply kill the topic however, it is very interesting reading about how your brains work on this subject. :) |
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09/04/2008 12:33:17 PM · #29 |
 togtog, I would ask you to consider that the comment section is for comments. Critiques and suggested improvements are a bonus.
Tim |
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09/04/2008 12:35:54 PM · #30 |
Originally posted by togtog:
This is part that is confusing to me, I am thankful they took the time to comment (it was a verbose DNMC), however at the same time I believe they are wrong and I didn't find the comment helpful. |
How can someone else's opinion about whether a shot meets challenge be wrong? It is their opinion, correct? Therefore, I personally find that type of information extremely valuable. |
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09/04/2008 01:00:20 PM · #31 |
Originally posted by bassbone:
Originally posted by togtog:
This is part that is confusing to me, I am thankful they took the time to comment (it was a verbose DNMC), however at the same time I believe they are wrong and I didn't find the comment helpful. |
How can someone else's opinion about whether a shot meets challenge be wrong? It is their opinion, correct? Therefore, I personally find that type of information extremely valuable. |
I am not sure I could explain that without stepping too close to calling someone out specifically.
I'll just say that sometimes people have set their bar so high that anything other than their own entry, is off topic. And I feel that is wrong.
More specifically, take a challenge topic of, Rocks. Someone posts a picture of a diamond, and someone comments "DNMC This is a diamond, not a rock. - 1". I would feel that comment is wrong, since a diamond is a rock and is often referred to as "a rock" or "the rock".
I understand that comment can be taken two ways, as being in error, or as highlighting that not everyone understands that diamonds are rocks. So it can be wrong, but helpful in understanding why a score might be low.
Another example, take a topic of "Anything but fish", someone posts a photo of a dolphin and gets the same DNMC comment. A dolphin is indeed not a fish, it isn't even close. However a lot of people believe dolphins are fish, as well as believing whales are fish.
Who is in error, the people who vote and comment on photos of sealife without knowing the difference, or the photographer who assumed viewers would know the difference? Should the photographer feel obligated to reward the people for their incorrect comments?
Thanks |
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09/04/2008 01:02:14 PM · #32 |
Originally posted by atupdate:
togtog, I would ask you to consider that the comment section is for comments. Critiques and suggested improvements are a bonus.
Tim |
Shouldn't the checkbox then say something like "I enjoyed this comment". The fact that "This comment was helpful" suggests a higher degree of comments being for critiques and suggestions, than for mere comments.
That's how I personally see it.
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09/04/2008 01:31:55 PM · #33 |
Originally posted by togtog:
Originally posted by atupdate:
togtog, I would ask you to consider that the comment section is for comments. Critiques and suggested improvements are a bonus.
Tim |
Shouldn't the checkbox then say something like "I enjoyed this comment". The fact that "This comment was helpful" suggests a higher degree of comments being for critiques and suggestions, than for mere comments.
That's how I personally see it. |
This has been discussed in several other DNMC threads. BTW, I concur with that thought. |
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09/04/2008 01:39:13 PM · #34 |
Originally posted by togtog:
Originally posted by bassbone:
Originally posted by togtog:
This is part that is confusing to me, I am thankful they took the time to comment (it was a verbose DNMC), however at the same time I believe they are wrong and I didn't find the comment helpful. |
How can someone else's opinion about whether a shot meets challenge be wrong? It is their opinion, correct? Therefore, I personally find that type of information extremely valuable. |
I am not sure I could explain that without stepping too close to calling someone out specifically.
I'll just say that sometimes people have set their bar so high that anything other than their own entry, is off topic. And I feel that is wrong.
More specifically, take a challenge topic of, Rocks. Someone posts a picture of a diamond, and someone comments "DNMC This is a diamond, not a rock. - 1". I would feel that comment is wrong, since a diamond is a rock and is often referred to as "a rock" or "the rock".
I understand that comment can be taken two ways, as being in error, or as highlighting that not everyone understands that diamonds are rocks. So it can be wrong, but helpful in understanding why a score might be low.
Another example, take a topic of "Anything but fish", someone posts a photo of a dolphin and gets the same DNMC comment. A dolphin is indeed not a fish, it isn't even close. However a lot of people believe dolphins are fish, as well as believing whales are fish.
Who is in error, the people who vote and comment on photos of sealife without knowing the difference, or the photographer who assumed viewers would know the difference? Should the photographer feel obligated to reward the people for their incorrect comments?
Thanks |
Well stated. However, I feel I am fairly well educated and I fail to choose even one of the ribbon winners correctly on most challenges. Shoot for the lowest common denominator and your scores will not suffer for it. Besides, if it smells like a fish and it tastes like a fish my wife will not eat it.
Tim |
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09/04/2008 01:39:26 PM · #35 |
I'm beginning to feel that the shoehorning/DNMC issue (It is two sides of the same issue, IMO) is getting to be a bit of a game. The pre-challenge discussions are filled with us trying to second guess all the ways in which the topic could be narrowly interpreted by voters or misunderstood by entrants.
I do realize this went on here for long before I ever joined the site. I guess the longer one is here, the more you are aware of it. |
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09/04/2008 01:44:08 PM · #36 |
Originally posted by togtog:
Should the photographer feel obligated to reward the people for their incorrect comments? |
I'm not sure I see that as rewarding anyone, but here's my own 
I'm one of the folks who always checks off the box. For two reasons:
1)It lets me know I have already read the comment, and if I find the box cleared later on, I know the person has updated either their comment or their vote.
2)It lets the commenter know that I have read their input when they see it after the challenge.
If I do have specific questions, or wish to thank someone for exceptionally helpful input, then I PM them.
Message edited by author 2008-09-04 13:45:10. |
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09/04/2008 02:18:05 PM · #37 |
| Out of focus, overexposed, not interesting, dnmc; these are all short comments that tell you why you got one particular low vote. If you get more than one of these comments on a photo, it should help tell you why you got a lower score on the photo than you thought you deserved. These types of comments may be hurtful to receive, but they are truthful, to the point, and helpful if taken in contex with your other comments. |
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09/04/2008 02:52:10 PM · #38 |
Originally posted by cloudsme:
Out of focus, overexposed, not interesting, dnmc; these are all short comments that tell you why you got one particular low vote. If you get more than one of these comments on a photo, it should help tell you why you got a lower score on the photo than you thought you deserved. These types of comments may be hurtful to receive, but they are truthful, to the point, and helpful if taken in contex with your other comments. |
Good point. |
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