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08/31/2008 12:57:26 AM · #126 |
Is that because you don't reside in the US as a citizen? No slam intended it is an honest question.. That would mean you don't have this right...
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
Nope, couldn't care less about the 2nd Amendment.
Originally posted by coronamv:
So you have nothing to respond to about the opposition of Obama to the Second Admendment? Not suprisid to tell the truth..
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
Originally posted by coronamv:
No your spin always makes me laugh. Healthcare for the poor or those who cannot pay for it is welfare. I never said I have no compassion. I states I do not believe it is my responsibility to provide for others. What I choose to do is donate to charities I agree with and help out my family and friends. So no shame on my part. But thanks again for proving my point about you have nothing to argue just blowing steam out of your ass as usual. Hey Spazmo you should patent a way to run your car off your ass. You could then give millions away to welfare!
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
Originally posted by coronamv:
Already been discussed so there is no point in arguing the Healthcare Issue. It is your opinion and others that healthcare is a right. It is my opinion that it is not. Neither one of us are going to change our minds on this. I just don't believe it is my responsibility to provide for your welfare. That is your responsibility. |
Why not, I always enjoy seeing you display your lack of compassion for others who aren't as fortunate as you. Your absolute absence of caring is something you should be ashamed of yet you wear it on your sleeve like a badge of courage. |
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You don't have to say you don't have compassion, it shows every time you post.
As for your other suggestion, well, I need a gasbag like you to power it, so, once you pull your head out, I'll get started. |
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08/31/2008 01:10:20 AM · #127 |
Wait so are you saying he does not use speech writers?
Originally posted by scalvert:
Originally posted by coronamv:
They all have their speeches prepaired by a professional speech righter directed by their campaign. Some people are better at reading it and not appearing to look at a teleprompter..
mis-type error fix |
You might want to fix the OTHER error. |
Message edited by author 2008-08-31 01:11:00. |
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08/31/2008 01:16:23 AM · #128 |
No, but given the F'ed up state of the nation, the rights of some wackos to run the mall around brandishing AK-47s just isn't that important.
Originally posted by coronamv:
Is that because you don't reside in the US as a citizen? No slam intended it is an honest question.. That would mean you don't have this right...
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
Nope, couldn't care less about the 2nd Amendment.
Originally posted by coronamv:
So you have nothing to respond to about the opposition of Obama to the Second Admendment? Not suprisid to tell the truth..
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
Originally posted by coronamv:
No your spin always makes me laugh. Healthcare for the poor or those who cannot pay for it is welfare. I never said I have no compassion. I states I do not believe it is my responsibility to provide for others. What I choose to do is donate to charities I agree with and help out my family and friends. So no shame on my part. But thanks again for proving my point about you have nothing to argue just blowing steam out of your ass as usual. Hey Spazmo you should patent a way to run your car off your ass. You could then give millions away to welfare!
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
Originally posted by coronamv:
Already been discussed so there is no point in arguing the Healthcare Issue. It is your opinion and others that healthcare is a right. It is my opinion that it is not. Neither one of us are going to change our minds on this. I just don't believe it is my responsibility to provide for your welfare. That is your responsibility. |
Why not, I always enjoy seeing you display your lack of compassion for others who aren't as fortunate as you. Your absolute absence of caring is something you should be ashamed of yet you wear it on your sleeve like a badge of courage. |
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You don't have to say you don't have compassion, it shows every time you post.
As for your other suggestion, well, I need a gasbag like you to power it, so, once you pull your head out, I'll get started. |
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08/31/2008 08:21:45 AM · #129 |
| A few weeks ago, when it was apparent that my choices for president would be Obama and McCain, I made the decision not to vote. I could not take the responsibility of assisting either candidate in obtaining the presidency. Then McCain chose Sarah Palin as his vice presidential running mate. After reading her views and stances on issues and reading about what she has done in office, I have decided that I have no choice but to vote for Obama. People often state that the vice-president really has no power, that the person is really just a place holder. But, the thought that she is that close to the presidency, that it is possible that she might have any say in how the country is run for the next four years, that she will be in power if McCain dies, is enough to make me not only vote on election day, but to go out and campaign for Obama. |
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08/31/2008 08:28:54 AM · #130 |
Originally posted by HawkeyeLonewolf:
Originally posted by david_c:
Originally posted by HawkeyeLonewolf:
Christ was not about social change. He was about people changing their hearts. |
There is no difference between these two statements, Hawkeye. |
There most certainly is a GULF of difference in those two statements. |
"Changing a Man's heart"...I presume for the better, to have him behave differently...is changing him socially. A group of people "changing their hearts" is to have them act differently than they have been acting in the past. The very essence of "social change". Unless you meant something else by "people changing their hearts". Maybe you meant, like, changing their tires. |
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08/31/2008 08:30:43 AM · #131 |
[quote=coronamv] Wait so are you saying he does not use speech writers?
The MTV link you posted is not evidence to the contrary. |
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08/31/2008 08:39:45 AM · #132 |
Originally posted by nomad469:
Originally posted by HawkeyeLonewolf:
Originally posted by david_c:
Originally posted by HawkeyeLonewolf:
Check now. Checkmate in November! |
I have a feeling you're in for a big letdown. Doesn't this Palin choice seem gimmicky and desperate to you? |
Only if you blindly listen to the liberal yap yaps. If you think it through and look at her record, you see it was a strong, strong choice. If McCain wins, I think we have a good chance at 16 more years of conservative wisdom. Good for America! |
And I wonder what flavor of kool-aid YOU, my friend, are gulping... conservative wisdom??? heck 16 more years of this crack induced nightmare that your side calls wisdom, We wont have to worry about Russia and Iran... We are going to be begging to be rescued from the fascists by Jamaica and Canada because we will be in a worse condition than them. |
What are you saying nomad? How worse off is Canada than your country, Please explain this remark. |
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08/31/2008 08:46:08 AM · #133 |
Originally posted by scalvert:
Originally posted by HawkeyeLonewolf:
He didn't even have the political sense to leave Rev. Wrights hate-mongering "church" until he got called on it. |
Hmm... gotta write that one down. "HawkeyeLonewolf (scribble, scribble) criticizing Obama (scribble) for failing to leave Christian Church (scribble, scribble) because it was preaching hate." Now I just need a mat and a nice frame. ;-) |
LOl I love to laugh in the morning during coffees. |
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08/31/2008 09:33:23 AM · #134 |
Originally posted by Jac:
Originally posted by scalvert:
Originally posted by HawkeyeLonewolf:
He didn't even have the political sense to leave Rev. Wrights hate-mongering "church" until he got called on it. |
Hmm... gotta write that one down. "HawkeyeLonewolf (scribble, scribble) criticizing Obama (scribble) for failing to leave Christian Church (scribble, scribble) because it was preaching hate." Now I just need a mat and a nice frame. ;-) |
LOl I love to laugh in the morning during coffees. |
Yeah, that comment by scalvert was stupid enough to be laughable wasn't it!
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08/31/2008 09:38:03 AM · #135 |
Originally posted by coronamv:
Wait so are you saying he does not use speech writers?
Originally posted by scalvert:
Originally posted by coronamv:
They all have their speeches prepaired by a professional speech righter directed by their campaign. Some people are better at reading it and not appearing to look at a teleprompter..
mis-type error fix |
You might want to fix the OTHER error. |
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As is evident in the second article, the 3 writers are there because he simply does not have the time to write them himself. They are his editors. They don't just make up stuff. They write what he wants them to write. That fact doesn't come out too clearn on the Repub side, as far as I can see. |
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08/31/2008 09:55:34 AM · #136 |
Hawkeye, I sense that you were looking for a reason to vote McCain and now you have found it with Palin, knowing damn well Obama is the right choice. I shudder at the thought that if McCain is voted in and then dies 3 months later, there will be a person who believes that only 6,000 years ago there were dinosaurs walking about with humans and this person will become president of the scariest country the world has ever seen. Yikes!
I also think, from reading this thread, that you are not unlike the 3 men who were arrested last week for wanting to assassinate Obama. You even mention assassination yourself. Now that you have Palin in the picture you think you're even more right about where you believe your country should be heading, a gun carrying Christian state.
I hope for your country that Obama gets elected. Another 4 years of recession, high energy costs that show absolutely no signs of letting up, higher than normal inflation, housing market collapse (please don't tell me this wasn't partly Bush's fault), your automobile industry, etc. Your country is in deep shit and it's not because of Clinton!
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08/31/2008 10:12:35 AM · #137 |
When I see all this convention and campaigning stuff in the US, from either camp, I get a deja vu of Berlin in the early thirties. And not only because of the campaigns, but also how the US behaves in the world.
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08/31/2008 10:44:04 AM · #138 |
Originally posted by HawkeyeLonewolf:
Originally posted by Jac:
Originally posted by scalvert:
Originally posted by HawkeyeLonewolf:
He didn't even have the political sense to leave Rev. Wrights hate-mongering "church" until he got called on it. |
Hmm... gotta write that one down. "HawkeyeLonewolf (scribble, scribble) criticizing Obama (scribble) for failing to leave Christian Church (scribble, scribble) because it was preaching hate." Now I just need a mat and a nice frame. ;-) |
LOl I love to laugh in the morning during coffees. |
Yeah, that comment by scalvert was silly enough to be laughable wasn't it! |
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08/31/2008 10:44:39 AM · #139 |
Originally posted by Jac:
Hawkeye, I sense that you were looking for a reason to vote McCain and now you have found it with Palin, knowing damn well Obama is the right choice. I shudder at the thought that if McCain is voted in and then dies 3 months later, there will be a person who believes that only 6,000 years ago there were dinosaurs walking about with humans and this person will become president of the scariest country the world has ever seen. Yikes!
I also think, from reading this thread, that you are not unlike the 3 men who were arrested last week for wanting to assassinate Obama. You even mention assassination yourself. Now that you have Palin in the picture you think you're even more right about where you believe your country should be heading, a gun carrying Christian state.
I hope for your country that Obama gets elected. Another 4 years of recession, high energy costs that show absolutely no signs of letting up, higher than normal inflation, housing market collapse (please don't tell me this wasn't partly Bush's fault), your automobile industry, etc. Your country is in deep shit and it's not because of Clinton! |
Nope. I know darn well that Obama is the W-R-O-N-G choice. For America anyway.
Where did I mention assassination????? And you slander is ill-founded.
Message edited by author 2008-08-31 10:45:25.
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08/31/2008 10:47:49 AM · #140 |
Originally posted by Jac:
Originally posted by nomad469:
Originally posted by HawkeyeLonewolf:
Originally posted by david_c:
Originally posted by HawkeyeLonewolf:
Check now. Checkmate in November! |
I have a feeling you're in for a big letdown. Doesn't this Palin choice seem gimmicky and desperate to you? |
Only if you blindly listen to the liberal yap yaps. If you think it through and look at her record, you see it was a strong, strong choice. If McCain wins, I think we have a good chance at 16 more years of conservative wisdom. Good for America! |
And I wonder what flavor of kool-aid YOU, my friend, are gulping... conservative wisdom??? heck 16 more years of this crack induced nightmare that your side calls wisdom, We wont have to worry about Russia and Iran... We are going to be begging to be rescued from the fascists by Jamaica and Canada because we will be in a worse condition than them. |
What are you saying nomad? How worse off is Canada than your country, Please explain this remark. |
No shot at Canada intended.
If we keep on this path we might be looking to other countries to rescue us because we will have lost all creditability in the world .
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08/31/2008 10:56:16 AM · #141 |
Originally posted by Jac:
I hope for your country that Obama gets elected. Another 4 years of recession |
From the Economic Times:
"For a recession the (US) economy is certainly growing very quickly," said Avery Shenfeld, senior economist at CIBC World Markets. "A lot of that growth is driven off exports and pessimists might say that can't continue during slowing growth overseas but I would say this happened precisely during the period of slowing growth overseas ... this is still an economy that faces slow times but not a recession." ( emphasis mine )
Originally posted by Jac:
... high energy costs that show absolutely no signs of letting up |
From CNN.Money:
Energy Price Change High Low Settle Last Update â€Â
Light Crude (NYM)
October 08 ($US per bbl.) 115.46 -0.13 117.95 116.35 115.46 8/29 12:50pm
Heating Oil (NYM)
October 08 ($US per gal.) 3.19 -0.01 3.26 3.20 3.19 8/29 2:48pm
Natural Gas (NYM)
October 08 ($US per mmbtu.) 7.94 -0.11 8.24 8.17 7.94 8/29 11:19am
Unleaded Gas (NYM)
October 08 ($US per gal.) 2.85 -0.01 2.85 2.85 2.85 8/29 9:00am
Originally posted by Jac:
... higher than normal inflation |
Granted we are currently experiencing higher than "normal" inflation, but the rates were "normal" up until November of 2007, when Oil prices combined with the housing market slump began to have a significant impact. Inflation rates were "normal" for the first 7 years of the Bush administration.
Originally posted by Jac:
... housing market collapse (please don't tell me this wasn't partly Bush's fault) |
OK. If you are unwilling to accept the truth, I won't bother telling you the truth.
Originally posted by Jac:
... your automobile industry, etc. |
OUR automobile industry as a whole is not in trouble. OUR automobile includes Toyota, Honda, etc. From Forbes:
"General Motors is considering a major cut in its stock dividend after posting a $8.6 billion loss in 2005. The U.S. auto industry crisis is becoming more acute, as domestic producers run up losses and lay off thousands of employees. However, foreign makers continue to expand their manufacturing operations in North America.
More than one third of the cars sold in the United States are Asian brands. However, the growing power of foreign automakers is not a significant balance of payments issue. Asian brands are increasingly manufactured on-shore. Despite the financial distress of the domestic makers, the auto manufacturing industry is set to survive and thrive.
At issue is whether cars will continue to be built in unionized plants operated by the Big Three--General Motors, Ford Motor and DaimlerChrysler -- or non-unionized "transplant" factories. If the Asian and European transplants prevail, union employees will lose their jobs and generous pay packages." ( emphasis mine )
The fact that Ford, General Motors, and Chrysler are in trouble is a validation that Capitalism works.
Originally posted by Jac:
Your country is in deep shit and it's not because of Clinton! |
OUR country is not in deep shit. Sorry to burst your bubble. |
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08/31/2008 11:15:28 AM · #142 |
Well I would disagree with that, but I'm just going from the asumption they make that he did not write that speech. Ok so rule one out of a handful " believe me there are more " that do directly talk about the fact he uses speech writers. What about the rest?
Message edited by author 2008-08-31 11:16:11. |
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08/31/2008 11:18:31 AM · #143 |
| I just thought of this. Hey Shannon did you click on the other links or just the last part of the sentence? There are six different links there. |
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08/31/2008 11:29:10 AM · #144 |
I hate playing the link game Ron, but here goes.
Subprime Crisis Takes Huge Toll on Economy: Study
Real median incomes are lower than they were in 2000, and consumer debt is higher. People can't get money out of their homes anymore.
And, the unemployment rate, which jumped to a four-year high of 5.7 percent in July, is expected to keep rising.
Alaska's legislature late Thursday approved a one-time $1,200 payment to nearly every state resident as a way for them to handle the highest energy prices in the United States.
As for the fuel costs you posted. It's a normal trend for them to drop a little at the end of summer, it happens every year. Anyways, the numbers you posted are irrelevant to the fact they have been rising for the past 3 years at a record pace, nonstop. What are the projections calling for? Seven dollar a gallon in not too long. Or 3 direct Gulf of Mexico hits by category 5 hurricanes and we're all riding bikes to work for a bit.
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08/31/2008 11:31:10 AM · #145 |
I will probably vote Obama. I think it is a terrible idea to vote for anyone who has held hands with or had their arm around GWB anytime over the past 8 years. Stupidity is contageous and McCain has pretty much had his head up GWB's ass for that entire time 90% of the time for sure.
So expect nothing but 4 more years of lets call it McPain at the gas pumps, markets crashing, jobless rates going up who knows maybe even a depression. It is not that I think Obama can do the job any better than McCain but the republican party has had the wheel for 8 years and our economy went from decent and stable to absolute shit. The dollar isn't worth much anywhere but the US and even here it isnt getting you much unless you have a fist full of them.
I think McCain is just going to pick up where Bush left off. Business as usual and America at least the Lower than Middle Class will suffer. And when I say that I go by McCains Defintion of The Middle Class.
No one really knows what Obama can or can not do. But we have for 8 years witnessed a Republican run Government that has failed with flying colors in so many places, 9/11 and Katrina being the standouts, Some might throw the Middle East on that plate as well. I am willing to take a chance at going a different direction even if it is not the right direction, Just as long as it is the start of a change in direction. Because the way we are going now is definately a dead end.
Most people agree that GWB is one of the worst if not thee worst President in the History of the United States, So people should also agree that voting for a guy that sided with Bush 90% of the time while he was in office is probably a dumb move.
It is your vote and your choice, But this time around, Don't support your party just because of loyalty issues, Support your Country instead because if you make the wrong choice, We may not have a Country left.
Message edited by author 2008-08-31 11:36:17. |
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08/31/2008 11:33:15 AM · #146 |
To get deja vu you would have ad to be alive back in the thirties.... Compairing the U.S. to Hitler's Germany hmmm let us see.
1. Hitler's goal was world domination and the erradication of the Jewish and non Arian nation. The U.S. goal is to protect the world against dicators and genocide and spreading democracy.
2. Wait lets go back a few years and see how we compair....
Hitler spoke of goals to "balance the budget but instead increased the deficit 'for the benefit of the people. This included extensive rebuilding of the nation's roads and bridges for the alleged purpose of "getting people back to work. America Today
Clinton speaks continually about "balancing the budget while 'training people to get them back to work and improving our highways and orders but, instead, adds to real deficits, which leads inevitably to increased taxes.
Some of the deficit spending was said to be used to build hospitals, public buildings, and public housing programs. Our government has been implementing programs such as these, spending over $5 trillion on such projects since World War II.
Hitler developed a radical welfare program that put substantial numbers of Germans on the government dole, making them dependent upon his regime, while convincing other citizens that they needed the government too. White putting on an act to "remove people from the Welfare system, government or Federal iob5 are being used or created to accomplish the Administration's goals.
Hitler's plan expanded available credit dramatically. How many calls and/or mail solicitations for loans (credit cards, car loan. or 2nd mortgages have you received lately?
Hitler organized a national health care service, which was enthusiastically received. Hitler's national health care service compares closely with America's HMO's; and Hillary's proposed National Health Care program is being implemented on a state by state basis. It may soon be available at the public school nearest you
Hitler invented "off-budget" expenditures, forcing private companies to spend moneys on programs the government wanted but could not finance (ala FastTrack?). President Clinton has developed this concept to an art term.
Hitler made the ownership of private property subject to governmental approval, tightly regulating ownership to the point where many Germans lost their property. The UN Biodiversity Treaty, the State of Utah declared "Bio-Reserve." and "Our Global Neighborhood" concepts are currently being implemented while countless mines and family farms have already been taken over.
The Hitler regime erased city and state lines, imposing federal control over all matters. The Federal Government now strongly recommends that youth curfews be instated in large cities throughout the US; education reforms continue to be dictated to public schools; and attempts to override State Laws by the Federal Government have near consistent.
Hitter brought art police departments under his control, leading eventually to a "national police force." Local and state police have been coming under increased Federal control for many years. The main tool used is funding. Clinton's 'put more cops on the streets' program has more strings attached than a string puppet. It will ultimately result in an all-powerful UN Police Force.
Hitler tightened gun controls steadily until it reached the point of confiscation. The first step any dictatorial government takes is to disarm its people. Need we point out the disarming of Americans which continues to gain momentum.
Hitler instituted Day Care under the label, "Mother and Child." Clinton is pushing for Federal control over all child care. allegedly to provide every child with safe and adequate care.
Conservation was encouraged; laws were passed which tightened federal government control over businesses and factories; and Germans were encouraged to 'beautify" their towns and countrysides. Watch television for just an hour and you'll see at least one community service announcement to recycle. Laws are in committee now to mandate certain types of recycling. Hyper-environmentalism and "Plant a tree programs are rapidly spreading.
Hitler dramatically increased taxes on German workers. Increasing the rate to about 35% of salaries Americans are beleaguered with taxes. Increases have been experience in the area of sales taxes, energy taxes, transportation taxes, entertainment taxes, etc.
Hitler's goals were reached with the help of media propaganda and under the illusion that Nazi politicians "cared" for the German people. "I feel your pain!" says Bill Clinton, over and over again.
Originally posted by Azrifel:
When I see all this convention and campaigning stuff in the US, from either camp, I get a deja vu of Berlin in the early thirties. And not only because of the campaigns, but also how the US behaves in the world. |
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08/31/2008 11:47:57 AM · #147 |
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08/31/2008 11:55:28 AM · #148 |
Well ok so the Second amendment is not important to you in this election. Fair enough. Remember though the wackos you refer to are more likely buying from the blackmarket illegally and are not members of the NRA and do not respect the gun laws already in place.
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
No, but given the F'ed up state of the nation, the rights of some wackos to run the mall around brandishing AK-47s just isn't that important.
Originally posted by coronamv:
Is that because you don't reside in the US as a citizen? No slam intended it is an honest question.. That would mean you don't have this right...
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
Nope, couldn't care less about the 2nd Amendment.
Originally posted by coronamv:
So you have nothing to respond to about the opposition of Obama to the Second Admendment? Not suprisid to tell the truth..
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
Originally posted by coronamv:
No your spin always makes me laugh. Healthcare for the poor or those who cannot pay for it is welfare. I never said I have no compassion. I states I do not believe it is my responsibility to provide for others. What I choose to do is donate to charities I agree with and help out my family and friends. So no shame on my part. But thanks again for proving my point about you have nothing to argue just blowing steam out of your ass as usual. Hey Spazmo you should patent a way to run your car off your ass. You could then give millions away to welfare!
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
Originally posted by coronamv:
Already been discussed so there is no point in arguing the Healthcare Issue. It is your opinion and others that healthcare is a right. It is my opinion that it is not. Neither one of us are going to change our minds on this. I just don't believe it is my responsibility to provide for your welfare. That is your responsibility. |
Why not, I always enjoy seeing you display your lack of compassion for others who aren't as fortunate as you. Your absolute absence of caring is something you should be ashamed of yet you wear it on your sleeve like a badge of courage. |
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You don't have to say you don't have compassion, it shows every time you post.
As for your other suggestion, well, I need a gasbag like you to power it, so, once you pull your head out, I'll get started. |
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08/31/2008 11:56:27 AM · #149 |
What a stunning example of an association fallacy. Besides, when you say "Hitler did this" and so on, you are being historically inaccurate. Hitler did nothing to bring about the national police force known as the Gestapo; that dubious honour lies with Göring, and subsequently Himmler and Heydrich. As with any large modern state, there is no simplistic mechanism you can point to and say, "this happened because of this".
The Nazis also started banning cigarette smoking in public areas and sought to inform their citizens of the dangerous side-effects of smoking. Should we be alarmed that fascism is on the way when latter-day governments do the same for their citizenry? |
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08/31/2008 11:59:47 AM · #150 |
Corollaries and usage
There are many corollaries to Godwin's law, some considered more canonical (by being adopted by Godwin himself)[2] than others invented later.[1] For example, there is a tradition in many newsgroups and other Internet discussion forums that once such a comparison is made, the thread is finished and whoever mentioned the Nazis has automatically "lost" whatever debate was in progress. This principle is itself frequently referred to as Godwin's Law. It is considered poor form to raise such a comparison arbitrarily with the motive of ending the thread. There is a widely recognized codicil that any such ulterior-motive invocation of Godwin's law will be unsuccessful (this is sometimes referred to as "Quirk's Exception").[6]
Godwin's Law applies especially to inappropriate, inordinate, or hyperbolic comparisons of other situations (or one's opponent) with Hitler or Nazis or their actions. It does not apply to discussions directly addressing genocide, propaganda, or other mainstays of the Nazi regime.[citation needed] Whether it applies to humorous use or references to oneself is open to interpretation, because although mentioning and trivializing Nazism in an online discussion, this would not be a fallacious attack against a debate opponent.
However, Godwin's Law itself can be abused, as a distraction or diversion, that fallaciously miscasts an opponent's argument as hyperbole, especially if the comparisons made by the argument are actually appropriate. A 2005 Reason magazine article argued that Godwin's Law is often misused to ridicule even valid comparisons.
So if it is applicable then it is you that has abused Godwins Law acording to it's definition. BTW I was rebutting a statement compairing the U.S. To Hitler's Germany in the 30's
Originally posted by RKT:
I call Godwin's law. |
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