US Courthouse grounds private property?

Canon EF 100mm f/2.8 USM Macro

08/25/2008 10:59:00 PM · #1

Today I went to the Wayne Lyman Morse US Courthouse in Eugene to shoot some pictures. I wondered if I would get any guff for doing so and sure enough, about 2/3rds of the way into my circuit around the courthouse a guy pops out and says hi. He wasn't wearing a uniform and I'm not sure who he represented. Because he was nice about things I didn't go into defensive mode, but I'm fairly sure he was giving me guff. He said, "Before we get guys coming out here with guns and stuff can I have you shoot pictures from the public side?" At that time I was shooting on a walkway from the sidewalk to a door (not the main door). He indicated that it would be ok to shoot from the other side of the big barrier pylons (basically the sidewalk). I said I was surprised because I thought this was public property and he replied, "ya, I get that a lot" (which is a nicely cryptic answer. Not denying things, but still holding his ground.) Like I said, because he was nice about it I didn't force it, although on the 4th side of the building, which was the front, I resumed shooting from inside the defenses.

I'm going to make a phone call or send an email tomorrow to just see what the real story is, but can somebody figure out how the grounds of a US courthouse could be considered private?

Spork99

OM System OM-1

08/25/2008 11:09:57 PM · #2

Certain public facilities ARE subject to restrictions on photography. Military bases for one. I would expect that Federal courthouses, prisons and other DOJ facilities or at least portions of them are much the same.

Look at it this way, at least they guys with the guns didn't come out the door, take your camera, stomp you into the ground, interrogate you, then drug you into a stupor and ship you off for a free holiday at Camp X-ray in an unmarked jet. Well, at least they haven't gotten around to you yet.

Message edited by author 2008-08-25 23:12:34.

RayEthier

Canon EOS-5D Mark II

Canon EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 USM

08/25/2008 11:13:45 PM · #3

I wouldn't want to bet my shirt on this Doc, but I do believe that under the USA Patriot Act, a large number of buildings housing government institutions can be subject to such restrictions.

Do keep us abreast of your findings.

Ray

violinist123

Canon EOS-6D

Canon EF 24-70mm f/2.8L USM

08/25/2008 11:15:41 PM · #4

The kinder, gentler side of facism. Threats of armed violence delivered with a smile.

GThumbtack

Panasonic DMC-LC50

08/25/2008 11:28:20 PM · #5

I would wager that it's a saftey issue for those who work in the building. They supplied a "safe" place for the public to observe from, and deny access to the rest of the grounds because in this day and age one never knows who is lurking and who is legitimate. Also since it is a courthouse it is a likely place for demented and disgruntled people to bring guns or weapons of destruction for their "revenge" or plans of hate.
This is just a guess based on common sense, hope you got some good photos before you left!

RayEthier

Canon EOS-5D Mark II

Canon EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 USM

08/25/2008 11:28:59 PM · #6

Originally posted by violinist123:

The kinder, gentler side of facism. Threats of armed violence delivered with a smile.

Damned if you do... damned if you don't, but we digress.

Ray

Canon EF 24-70mm f/2.8L USM

08/25/2008 11:34:36 PM · #7

Originally posted by Spazmo99:

Meh. Military bases...maybe. Courthouses? I don't think so. Do all the photographers for the papers and TV stations covering news have to get special permission?

HAHA. I'm searching around for a homepage or contact number and come across a PDF that basically gives you a floorplan of the building. Stuff like this just drives me nuts.

violinist123

Canon EOS-6D

08/25/2008 11:35:36 PM · #8

Originally posted by GThumbtack:

While I appreciate my lifestyle as a fat, well off American living the high life at the cost of the well being of the environment and a large percentage of the rest of the world, I have to say that this country is really starting to suck.

The only safety issue related to someone taking pictures in a courthouse is an accidental knocked head as a telephoto swings around. Your taxes maintain the place and pay the people who work there, why should you be restricted from taking pictures? Demented people, disgruntled people and revolutionaries who think things have gotten out of hand will do what they will with their guns and weapons of mass destruction and I really, really doubt they will don a photographer disguise to do it.

Photomom1981

Canon EOS-400D Rebel XTi

Canon EF 50mm f/1.8 II

08/25/2008 11:38:12 PM · #9

I worked in the court house a few years back, it's "public" property but they have restrictions on what you can and can't do. if your on the side walk you can take it (where the media stands you can stand) your not allowed to get up close and personal due to security, etc.
example.. I pose as a tourist while a case is going in, the guy walks out free after court or even in custody.. here i am taking pictures of the cute little birdy, and all of a suddon pull a gun cause I didn't think he should walk free or live in prison for what he/she did.. get where I am going with that?

kolasi

Nikon D300

Tamron SP AF 17-50mm f/2.8 Di II LD Aspherical (IF) for Nikon

08/25/2008 11:40:46 PM · #10

Originally posted by DrAchoo:

He said, "Before we get guys coming out here with guns and stuff can I have you shoot pictures from the public side?"

Dont see how that could sound nice, dont care if he said it while holding balloons and a cupcake.
Let us know what response you were given re this.

MattO

Nikon D4

Nikon AF-S Nikkor 70-200mm f/2.8G ED VR II

08/25/2008 11:43:11 PM · #11

Originally posted by DrAchoo:

Originally posted by Spazmo99:
Certain public facilities ARE subject to restrictions on photography. Military bases for one. I would expect that Federal courthouses, prisons and other DOJ facilities or at least portions of them are much the same.

Meh. Military bases...maybe. Courthouses? I don't think so. Do all the photographers for the papers and TV stations covering news have to get special permission?

HAHA. I'm searching around for a homepage or contact number and come across a PDF that basically gives you a floorplan of the building. Stuff like this just drives me nuts.

Any time I'm sent to the courthouse for an assignment, I have to check in and usually the paper calls ahead of time for credentials. Spot news at the courthouse is always done from a public place. Although many of the locals do know me and the other photographers and dont give us any trouble. They could if they wanted too.

Matt

LoudDog

Canon EOS-350D Rebel XT

Canon EF 17-40mm f/4.0L USM

08/25/2008 11:44:09 PM · #12

I think you should go back and push the issue!

(Note: I'll pay money if anyone gets a photo of Doc getting tazered!)

:)

Canon EF 100mm f/2.8 USM Macro

08/25/2008 11:47:25 PM · #13

Originally posted by Photomom1981:

Well, sure. Shooting someone with a gun is illegal. I know it's been a while, but do you have any contact name or number I can call to get the straight scoop? I was standing on a sidewalk located where the red dot is in the picture below:

I know it's the "side" of the building, but it's not like I was lurking back in employee parking. (Well, actually, I was there earlier, but the angles weren't as good...)

Spork99

OM System OM-1

08/25/2008 11:56:46 PM · #14

Originally posted by DrAchoo:

Maybe? Try taking pictures some day out at Groom Lake, NV. Let us know how that goes after you get out of Leavenworth, assuming you don't get shot first.

The press may not need permission, but I'm sure they have to obey rules about where they can and can't go.

Pentax DA 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 AF

08/26/2008 12:05:36 AM · #15

Originally posted by Spazmo99:

Originally posted by DrAchoo:

Originally posted by Spazmo99:
Certain public facilities ARE subject to restrictions on photography. Military bases for one. I would expect that Federal courthouses, prisons and other DOJ facilities or at least portions of them are much the same.

Meh. Military bases...maybe. Courthouses? I don't think so. Do all the photographers for the papers and TV stations covering news have to get special permission?

HAHA. I'm searching around for a homepage or contact number and come across a PDF that basically gives you a floorplan of the building. Stuff like this just drives me nuts.

Maybe? Try taking pictures some day out at Groom Lake, NV. Let us know how that goes after you get out of Leavenworth, assuming you don't get shot first.

The press may not need permission, but I'm sure they have to obey rules about where they can and can't go.

I was being sarcastic about the maybe. I agree with you about the military. I still don't think the public areas of a courthouse count. The question in this case will be "what is public?" Is the side of the building public? This is where I'll have to talk to someone directly.

faidoi

Pentax K10D

08/26/2008 12:11:29 AM · #16

Originally posted by DrAchoo:

So you were shooting a news story at the time?

08/26/2008 12:13:29 AM · #17

Originally posted by faidoi:

No. :) It's a principle. If photography is banned, then why wouldn't it be banned for everybody? what basis could a public institution use to come up with such a principle?

Art Roflmao

Canon EOS-6D Mark II

Tamron SP AF 17-50mm f/2.8 Di II LD Aspherical (IF) for Nikon

08/26/2008 12:53:11 AM · #18

Originally posted by LoudDog:

I think you should go back and push the issue!

(Note: I'll pay money if anyone gets a photo of Doc getting tazered!)

:)

Count me in for $20! And with that PDF floorplan sitting in his cache, a quick anonymous tipoff to the FBI should make things even more fun when he goes back. :D

kolasi

Nikon D300

08/26/2008 01:08:23 AM · #19

Originally posted by Photomom1981:

example.. I pose as a tourist while a case is going in, the guy walks out free after court or even in custody.. here i am taking pictures of the cute little birdy, and all of a suddon pull a gun cause I didn't think he should walk free or live in prison for what he/she did.. get where I am going with that?

yeah, one can pose as anything if thats their intent, doesnt have to have a camera. if the Doc was just walking around, would he be stopped and threatened?

dacrazyrn

Nikon D300

Nikon AF-S DX NIKKOR 18-200mm f/3.5-5.6G ED VR II

08/26/2008 01:30:45 AM · #20

Originally posted by DrAchoo:

standing on a sidewalk located where the red dot is in the picture below:

so they are worried about a photographer THERE. Looks like you might as well double park anywhere around that building and take whatever shots you want. Definitely on public property then. Looks like "public sidewalks," all the way around it also. Not to mention it it OUR property.
If they want to be worried about something, it should be how easy it would be to drive a dump truck full of fertilizer through, dump it off inside and continue out the other side to a clean getaway. :)