Obama is a Canon shooter - DPChallenge Forums

08/18/2008 09:59:23 AM · #253

Originally posted by coronamv:

But Again I will not digress with one who has and cheats the system

I'd be careful continually insisting that's what he's doing. Occassionally people get fed up and find recourse to what they consider being libelled.

Nikon AF-S DX Zoom-Nikkor 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 ED

08/18/2008 10:16:35 AM · #254

He would have to prove I was wrong and the same can be said for calling someone a liar.. Also I stated I feel his actions are cheating the system.

Message edited by author 2008-08-18 10:19:20.

Apple iPhone 5

08/18/2008 10:21:13 AM · #255

Originally posted by coronamv:

He would have to prove I was wrong and the same can be said for calling someone a liar..

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togtog

Nikon D300

Nikon AF-S DX NIKKOR 18-200mm f/3.5-5.6G ED VR II

08/18/2008 10:26:09 AM · #256

There is a thick black line between kids living off their parents, even if poor, and adults living off themselves if poor.

TV:
Many things have more than one purpose. A TV can be used to watch reruns of I Love Lucy, or to keep up with current news, local events, and weather. A newspaper can function mostly the same, minus the updated weather.

Hurricane Fay, was forecast via news and via newspaper to hit the coast of Florida Monday morning 8am, it is now Monday morning 9am, no wind, no clouds really. The newspaper says 8am yet... the hurricane stalled off the coast of Cuba. It will be tonight or am tomorrow before it hits. The TV told me this, because the TV is more up to date.

UPDATE: My city, Melbourne, was forecast yesterday as going to have tropical winds or less. No need for evacuations, no need for boards on windows, no need for shelter. The path has just been changed and now Melbourne is expected to have hurricane force winds in excess of 80MPH and is expected to cause serious flooding in previously safe areas.

We often get squalls of thunderstorms with no warning, very severe, pouring rain, hail, and a ton of cloud to ground lightning, can last minutes or hours. Poor people often bike or walk miles to reach stores. They can benefit from an up to the minute weather radar to see if storms are moving into the area.

Telephone:
People need a way to keep in contact with; schools, work, family, doctors, government, and emergency services.

Cell-phone:
All the benefits of the telephone above; plus also able to call for help while walking 30 minutes to the store, able to receive important school or government calls while away the whole day. On some models you can get a weather radar and weather report, removing the need for the TV with the addition of a newspaper. Many models of cellphones are free with contracts, can cost as little as $30 per month, the same as a land line telephone, and may include for free music-on-hold to annoy some of you.

Computers and Internet:
Internet plays a much larger role today than photo sites and porn. The internet can give access to the same weather information above, provide maps and locations of new doctor appointments, allow for searching for educational and governmental resources. It can also provide free telephone, removing the need above for one. Also internet can be had for the same price as a telephone and provide many more services.

Cameras:
Agreed, probably no practical need, however people should not be expected to sell gifts costing hundreds for a few bucks. I've been there, it hollows you out to see the waste. Thousands of dollars of things belonging to me and my parents, just for that days Ramen. It is surely better to just throw it away and kill oneself.

Cars:
This depends on the person and location. Bad knees, hips, etc. can greatly reduce the distance able to be walked. Where I live it is a six mile walk to the nearest bus stop. It is over 30 miles to the nearest store. Even by bike that could take 2 hours with no head wind on a good day for someone who is fit with a well functioning bike.

A lot of towns in the UK can be managed via bike very well, they were built before invention of the car and housing and businesses are tightly packed together. In America thanks to the invention of the automobile different resources are hours apart.

Just because something has fun uses, doesn't mean it become useless or unneeded. Times are changing, a few years ago internet was nothing, today there are more resources on the internet than over the telephone. The further from the city you live the cheaper, but also the harder to get to food or a bus.

I don't expect any of you anti-welfare types to agree with me however. A person can live on dog food while sleeping naked in a cardboard box. With no property of ones own. I feel some of you believe people should, that that is a perfectly acceptable life, that this meets the basic needs to survive.

There is one thing lacking from all of the anti-welfare posts though. More than one thing really; Hope, Comfort, and Safety. Three staples of a stable and healthy mind. It has been shown in the past that monkeys that do not receive a feeling of comfort and safety often become sick or die. Hope is more a human emotional but without it humans don't tend to do anything to improve themselves. Anti-welfare types call this laziness, I call it a loss in the desire to live.

Just for the record; I've lived in a van for six months with three others, with no tv, no newspaper, no computer nor phone, no camera, no nothing. Ramen every other day split between three others. We slept long November nights with no blankets nor heat, going to bed every night wondering if we would ever walk again and waking the next morning unable to feel our legs.

We sold everything we had for food and gas, since the police regularly pushed us park to park. We sat next to pay phones 12 hours a day for months, waiting for phone calls from apartments and jobs while being chased off by police and store owners. We had no family and no friends to support us.

So I know a little bit about hardship and being down on luck. I know where we hit dead ends and brick walls. Of all the things we had or did not have. It would be proven to be a cellphone as the greatest asset to why I am sitting here today. The first time, it was dumb luck, an old co-worker of my mother noticed her at a park and saw what we were living as.

She helped her get an inside unlisted position at a hospital, so we could start saving up. We got an apartment, others got jobs too, but then one got sick and bills exceeded income. Before it could be fixed we were evicted. However this time the first thing done was getting a cellphone. Again we lived in the van, for three months this time.

We had money for food now, money for rent, money for just about anything. But nowhere to go. Applying to apartments left and right, three months later, one called on the cellphone while we were buying more lunch meat and bread.

My mother got sick, cancer, and had to leave work on medical leave. We got into the apartment though and people got jobs again, a year later during a lease resigning they noted that our income was too high for low-income housing. We were barely making ends meet so it was obviously an error, however we were evicted.

We later learned the hospital forgot to list my mother as on medical leave and was still listing her at full pay, even though she wasn't getting 1/3 of it. We moved to a motel, for $1200 a month and went back to Ramen for dinner.

We lived in that motel for 13 months, lived through three hurricanes, Francis, Jeanne, and Charlie in 2004. However again, we had no where to go.

Thanks to one of my mothers co-workers, she drove around finding every rent-by-owner house in the city and plead with each to let us rent. Finally she found a nice guy who had just been burned by previous tenets, whom happened to be his own family. Place was wrecked. So he said he had nothing to lose really. We told him he didn't even need to fix the place up, just let us in. He met us 50/50, we assisted, illegally, with the clean up of the house to get in sooner.

Moral of the story is, just because you have jobs and money, doesn't mean you can get a home without a reliable telephone or cellphone or an act of God.

I told Sam this topic hit a bit close to home for me, now he will know why.

Anyway I now return you to your regular bickering program.

08/18/2008 10:36:15 AM · #257

Just showing up to the show or have you been reading 90 percent of the post in the rant section.

Originally posted by JH:

Originally posted by coronamv:
He would have to prove I was wrong and the same can be said for calling someone a liar..

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Nikon AF-S DX Zoom-Nikkor 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 ED

08/18/2008 10:37:23 AM · #258

Originally posted by coronamv:

He would have to prove I was wrong...

Nope, sorry. In your country, if you libel someone, you have to prove you are right. Only in GB can you sue for libel and expect the defendant to have to prove you wrong.

Originally posted by coronamv:

and the same can be said for calling someone a liar..

Calling you a liar because you're misrepresenting a fact is not injurious to your character, but saying someone is purposefully breaking the law when you have absolutely no proof is extremely injurious to their character. You have made everyone in this forum consider whether or not this man might be a criminal. He has suggested you might be lying about being an impoverished private schoolboy. Which do you think is the more serious offense?

Originally posted by coronamv:

Also I stated I feel his actions are cheating the system.

You stated that he was cheating the system (and thus breaking the law) as though you knew it to be categorical fact.

Apple iPhone 5

08/18/2008 10:40:30 AM · #259

Originally posted by coronamv:

Just showing up to the show or have you been reading 90 percent of the post in the rant section.

Only the libelous ones.

Nikon AF-S DX Zoom-Nikkor 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 ED

08/18/2008 10:50:39 AM · #260

Are you also acting as their attoney?

Originally posted by JH:

Originally posted by coronamv:
Just showing up to the show or have you been reading 90 percent of the post in the rant section.

Only the libelous ones.

Apple iPhone 5

08/18/2008 10:53:12 AM · #261

Originally posted by coronamv:

Are you also acting as their attoney?
Originally posted by JH:

Originally posted by coronamv:
Just showing up to the show or have you been reading 90 percent of the post in the rant section.

Only the libelous ones.

Sorry, I'm not sure what an 'attoney' is. But if you want to discuss site legal matters and terms of service, then you'd be better off getting in touch with

Langdon

08/18/2008 11:07:38 AM · #262

So did he not say he had certain items and services that most of the working world would consider luxuries and most likely DHR would too. My opinion is not slander nore is it liable. The facts are as he admitted is he spends money on luxuries and non essentials instead of food and nessecities.

Originally posted by Louis:

Originally posted by coronamv:
He would have to prove I was wrong...

Nope, sorry. In your country, if you libel someone, you have to prove you are right. Only in GB can you sue for libel and expect the defendant to have to prove you wrong.

Originally posted by coronamv:
and the same can be said for calling someone a liar..

Calling you a liar because you're misrepresenting a fact is not injurious to your character, but saying someone is purposefully breaking the law when you have absolutely no proof is extremely injurious to their character. You have made everyone in this forum consider whether or not this man might be a criminal. He has suggested you might be lying about being an impoverished private schoolboy. Which do you think is the more serious offense?

Originally posted by coronamv:
Also I stated I feel his actions are cheating the system.

You stated that he was cheating the system (and thus breaking the law) as though you knew it to be categorical fact.

No I stated I feel he has cheated the system. You want to get technical.. Lets get technical now you have misrepresented my words and twisted the facts of the statement to fit your need.

Nikon AF-S DX 18-105 f/3.5-5.6 ED VR

08/18/2008 11:39:28 AM · #263

Originally posted by coronamv:

Show me one legal instance of someone in the united states needing rescue due to no fault of their own by the coast guard that were poor.

People fall off cliffs. People get swept out to sea. People fall off ferries. People do all kinds of things that mean that they need rescuing. Some of those people may not be able to afford the cost of a helicopter rescue. This should be so very obvious that I see no need to search for relevant news reports.

Originally posted by coronamv:

Actually I do not think I ever said I was in favor of state schooling. That is probably the worst form of education in this country. Private schooling provides a far better education. I said the government should fund this policy to better its people. Teach one to fish....

If you are going to cut people off to fend for themselves, surely they ought to be clever/responsible enough to save cash to pay for their children's education (or the children can pay it back from their wages after graduation). It seems odd that you want to educate people out of the public purse if they have not planned how to finance their own education, but would let them starve if they have not planned how to finance against, say, job loss coinciding with big medical bills.

Originally posted by coronamv:

You may be right in your country here it is different. The State regulates the bar.

Yes - I said that. The state adopts the rules of the bar association. The point is that a dishonesty offence is a breach of these licensing rules - not part of the penal code. So people are not as a matter of course disbarred from doing again that which they previously did fraudulently.

Originally posted by coronamv:

Two points we keep going over You keep saying that their unemployment is derived from things out of their control. I disagree. We have been over this a million times in this forum. Two Where does it say it is my responsibility to pick up your pieces when you fail?

Say you suffered a medical emergency, the cost of which exceeded your insurance cover or was outside the scope of your insurance cover by an amount equivalent to your savings. Would you say that this was within your control? If you lost your job at the same time (I have no idea what you do) as a consequence of your extended illness, would that have been within your control?

If your family, friends and church were not in a position to feed and clothe you, would you merely accept your lot and lay down to die?

dponlyme

Nikon D3000

08/18/2008 11:54:09 AM · #264

Originally posted by coronamv:

Cannot empathize with those who cheat the system. IE have also.. Camera computer Internet and how many other things we do not know about. Do you feel a car is a nessecity? Do you feel a TV is a nessecity? I think the definition of nessecity is lost with you...
Originally posted by dponlyme:

Originally posted by coronamv:

Originally posted by dponlyme:

Originally posted by coronamv:
I grew up out of poverty and know what it is like to have not. My parents and their parents never asked the government for welfare.

I presume that you got your junior and highschool education free? Nope Private schooling.

Now you at best seem disingenuous and at worst an outright liar. How is it that you grew up in a state of poverty and yet your family still had the resources to send you to private schooling? I don't know too many people who grew up in a state of poverty that had the benefit of private schooling. I did not grow up in poverty but we also did not have the resources for private schooling either.

Well Just because you and your family failed to be able to achieve these things does not make it impossible or make me a liar. What I find similiar in all of these areguements is because one cannot achieve it then becomes his right to be supported by the government and the tax payers. Like I have said before find a job that can sustain your life and prioritize you spending.

Seems like if your family was able to achieve things as you put it then you didn't grow up in a state of poverty. Where is the 'have not' part of your statement. Seems like to me you 'had'. Which again points us to the disingenuous quality of your statement or what I would characterize as a convenient lie. A theme I find disturbing is that only those who have always 'had' begrudge the minimal assistance that is given to the ones who really have need. Pathetic that you cannot empathize with anyone's life, situation, circumstance.

Actually I sold my car to pay the rent... not that I don't have need of a car but at the time I couldn't afford insurance on it anyway so I couldn't legally drive it even if I could afford the gas. I have already explained why the camera and internet connection make sense which explanation you apparently refuse to accept. As far as my TV I haven't sold it because the money I would get would be negligible as my tv is old and was actually given to me from my inlaws as they did not want it anymore. It wouldn't make much sense to do so. To get to the heart of your statement I do not cheat the system and your suggestion that I do I take great umbrage with. (look that one up private school boy). It really is cold hearted people like you that make the world an even worse place. I hope someday you get taught a painful lesson in compassion by experiencing the same kind of treatment that you dish out with no more reason than you have decided that money is more important than people. You seem to take great pleasure in putting people down. Does it make you feel better about your own sorry pathetic existence where love and compassion take a back seat to your own selfishness?

08/18/2008 12:02:31 PM · #265

Originally posted by dponlyme:

I hope someday you get taught a painful lesson in compassion by experiencing the same kind of treatment that you dish out with no more reason than you have decided that money is more important than people.

Wishing he were more compassionate than he is currently is good, but wishing misfortune on him isn't so nice.

Nikon AF-S DX 18-105 f/3.5-5.6 ED VR

08/18/2008 12:05:30 PM · #266

Originally posted by coronamv:

No I stated I feel he has cheated the system. You want to get technical.. Lets get technical now you have misrepresented my words and twisted the facts of the statement to fit your need.

Not so. You unambiguously said, many times, "You are cheating the system." You did not include the caveat, "It is my opinion that", and so, you are making a sweeping statement disguised as fact based on nothing but your unprofessional interpretation of his situation. You have no cause to characterize his situation as criminal, and you are walking a very fine line of libelling him. Feel free to hold forth against your own words, but it only looks foolish.

dponlyme

Nikon D3000

08/18/2008 12:18:50 PM · #267

Originally posted by Louis:

Originally posted by dponlyme:
I hope someday you get taught a painful lesson in compassion by experiencing the same kind of treatment that you dish out with no more reason than you have decided that money is more important than people.

Wishing he were more compassionate than he is currently is good, but wishing misfortune on him isn't so nice.

perhaps not but sometimes it is the only way people learn.. in all reality this would make him a better human being so the misfortune would do him good. Granted my emphasis did seem to be on him being in pain. That's not very nice I'll admit.

08/18/2008 01:23:22 PM · #268

I thought that readers might find this recent study interesting. It considers what minimum income in the UK affords basic opportunities and choices that allow proper participation in society. In particular for international readers, it analyses what products have become essential (eg the mobile phone).

//www.jrf.org.uk/pressroom/releases/010708.asp

Message edited by author 2008-08-18 13:29:36.

08/18/2008 01:35:08 PM · #269

Originally posted by Louis:

...you are making a sweeping statement disguised as fact based on nothing but your unprofessional interpretation of his situation. You have no cause to characterize his situation as criminal, and you are walking a very fine line of libelling him. ...

I very nearly made the same point some time ago (but my computer crashed after I typed a long post and I gave up!).

Libelling someone who has just commented how desperate they are for cash might be considered imprudent.

Message edited by author 2008-08-18 13:35:52.

RonB

Canon EOS-300D Rebel

08/18/2008 05:54:43 PM · #270

Originally posted by GeneralE:

Originally posted by coronamv:
Your ideas seem familiar to me I believe another man said these very same ideas "From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs" accept for the fact you think it is up to government to control these things which I call The Dictatorship of the Proletariat" Which even the Man himself Karl Marx stated could not exist in this world. I say be free to Make millions or free to fail. Key word being FREE....

I'm glad you mentioned this, as it supports my idea that "free market" Capitalism is nothing but an anti-Christian sham. Marx's most famous line is derived directly from the New Testament, Acts 4:32-35:

Originally posted by The Bible:

4:32 And the multitude of them that believed were of one heart and
of one soul: neither said any of them that ought of the things
which he possessed was his own; but they had all things
common.

4:33 And with great power gave the apostles witness of the
resurrection of the Lord Jesus: and great grace was upon them
all.

4:34 Neither was there any among them that lacked: for as many as
were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the
prices of the things that were sold,

4:35 And laid them down at the apostles' feet: and distribution was
made unto every man according as he had need.

Since you brought the Bible into the discussion, I feel an invitation to comment.

First, a minor addition to your post, if I may. The Scripture you quoted only supports the second half of Marx's oft-quoted phrase. In reality, the first half of Marx's quote "might" also have been derived from the Bible - from Acts 11:29-30, where it says

Originally posted by The Bible:

The disciples, each according to his ability, decided to provide help for the brothers living in Judea. This they did, sending their gift to the elders by Barnabas and Saul.

That being said, I would like to draw your attention to the fact that the giving by "each, according to his ability" was NOT decided by a third party ( e.g. the Apostles or the Government ) - rather, it was decided upon by the donors, themselves, without coercion. Additionally, the Apostles actually KNEW the recipients and were in a position to accurately judge what their individual "needs" were - unlike programs being run by modern governments, or many churches, for that matter.

Elsewhere in Scripture, we find ( in 2 Corinthians 8:7-8 )

Originally posted by The Bible:

But just as you excel in everything--in faith, in speech, in knowledge, in complete earnestness and in your love for us --see that you also excel in this grace of giving. I am not commanding you, but I want to test the sincerity of your love by comparing it with the earnestness of others.

From these last two passages, it is clear that there was no coercion to give ( as there would be under communism or is under our system of taxation ), but that such charitable donations were entirely voluntary ( though encouraged ).

And, I believe that one could correctly infer from the above passages from the book of Acts that such acts of charity were, and are, laudable and pleasing to God.

Now, as to the Biblical view of Capitalism, let me offer this passage from Matthew 25:14-23, which quotes Christ as saying

Originally posted by The Bible:

"Again, it will be like a man going on a journey, who called his servants and entrusted his property to them. To one he gave five talents of money, to another two talents, and to another one talent, each according to his ability. Then he went on his journey.
The man who had received the five talents went at once and put his money to work and gained five more. So also, the one with the two talents gained two more. But the man who had received the one talent went off, dug a hole in the ground and hid his master's money.
"After a long time the master of those servants returned and settled accounts with them. The man who had received the five talents brought the other five. 'Master,' he said, 'you entrusted me with five talents. See, I have gained five more.' "His master replied, 'Well done, good and faithful servant! You have been faithful with a few things; I will put you in charge of many things. Come and share your master's happiness!'
"The man with the two talents also came. 'Master,' he said, 'you entrusted me with two talents; see, I have gained two more.' "His master replied, 'Well done, good and faithful servant! You have been faithful with a few things; I will put you in charge of many things. Come and share your master's happiness!'

While this is a parable about what the Kingdom of Heaven is like, its teaching does not seem to support your idea that investments of privately held capital with the goal of producing a positive return on those investments ( i.e. free market Capitalism ) is an "Anti-Christian" sham. Rather, it was commended as prudent.

Finally, I feel that it may be of benefit to the current discussion to put forth what I believe is the teaching of Scripture about the poor, the needy, and government assistance programs ( e.g. welfare, food stamps, etc ).

First, we are told, by the Apostle Paul, in 2 Thessalonians 3:6-15

Originally posted by The Bible:

In the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, we command you, brothers, to keep away from every brother who is idle and does not live according to the teaching you received from us. For you yourselves know how you ought to follow our example. We were not idle when we were with you, nor did we eat anyone's food without paying for it. On the contrary, we worked night and day, laboring and toiling so that we would not be a burden to any of you. We did this, not because we do not have the right to such help, but in order to make ourselves a model for you to follow. For even when we were with you, we gave you this rule: "If a man will not work, he shall not eat."
We hear that some among you are idle. They are not busy; they are busybodies. Such people we command and urge in the Lord Jesus Christ to settle down and earn the bread they eat. And as for you, brothers, never tire of doing what is right. If anyone does not obey our instruction in this letter, take special note of him. Do not associate with him, in order that he may feel ashamed. Yet do not regard him as an enemy, but warn him as a brother.

Scripture also says, in Acts 10:1-4

Originally posted by The Bible:

At Caesarea there was a man named Cornelius, a centurion in what was known as the Italian Regiment. He and all his family were devout and God-fearing; he gave generously to those in need and prayed to God regularly. One day at about three in the afternoon he had a vision. He distinctly saw an angel of God, who came to him and said, "Cornelius!" Cornelius stared at him in fear. "What is it, Lord?" he asked. The angel answered, "Your prayers and gifts to the poor have come up as a memorial offering before God.

And, in Romans 12:13, it says

Originally posted by The Bible:

Share with God's people who are in need. Practice hospitality.

And in 1 John 3:17-18, it says

Originally posted by The Bible:

If anyone has material possessions and sees his brother in need but has no pity on him, how can the love of God be in him? Dear children, let us not love with words or tongue but with actions and in truth.

From the above passages, I get the clear impression that Scripture both exhorts us to care for those who are poor and/or truly in need, and instructs us to withhold such support for those who are fully capable of working but opt to remain idle.

On the other hand, Scripture does NOT appear to support the idea that we should be coerced to do so. And certainly not through taxation.

All of that being said, neither the church nor the government have carried out their mission well - there is probably as much fraud perpetrated at the food-pantry ( e.g. by those who could very easily afford to buy food ) as there is at the welfare office ( e.g. by those who could very easily obtain employment ) - and neither group, it seems, wants to invest the time or the energy that it would take to prevent such fraud. This is to the shame of the church, which should be more attuned to those it serves. As for the government - well, I've come to expect massive waste and fraud in government run programs as the norm.

08/18/2008 06:12:34 PM · #271

Originally posted by RonB:

Are there any texts that might appear to support the opposing view?

08/18/2008 06:14:00 PM · #272

Well said. Ronb and Mathew I feel it would be upon you to find that info. good Hunting

Message edited by author 2008-08-18 18:15:04.

08/18/2008 07:57:53 PM · #273

Originally posted by coronamv:

Well said. Ronb and Mathew I feel it would be upon you to find that info. good Hunting

He Heh Heh. I thought I would spend five minutes seeing if I could come up with some biblical support for an opposing argument. I can see the attraction of quoting from the bible in any situation - you can make it say exactly what you want it to. I am going to do this more often!

The last quote here is the best and most apposite for the people active in this thread...

Biblical Support for Fair Redistribution of Wealth

Pay your taxes:

â��Give to Caesar what belongs to Caesar...â�� â��Luke 20:25

The bible supports redistribution of wealth:

"13Not that others should have relief while you have hardship. Rather, it is a question of fairness. 14At the present time, your surplus fills their need, so that their surplus may fill your need. In this way things are fair. 15As it is written,

â��The person who had much did not have too much,

and the person who had little did not have too little.â�� " -2 Corinthians 8:13

The bible clearly supports the provision of social support on a national basis:

"If there is a poor man with you, one of your brothers, in any of your towns in your land which the LORD your God is giving you, you shall not harden your heart, nor close your hand from your poor brother; 8 but you shall freely open your hand to him, and shall generously lend him sufficient for his need in whatever he lacks." Deuteronomy 15:7

The bible supports the concept of the common interest:

"And the multitude of them that believed were of one heart and of one soul: neither said any of them that ought of the things which he possessed was his own; but they had all things common." - Acts 4:32

Biblical Support for Taxing Big Oil

This is not something that I support, but the bible tells me to change my mind.

Christians should appoint leaders who hate dishonest gain:

â��Furthermore, you shall select out of all the people able men who fear God, men of truth, those who hate dishonest gain; and you shall place these over them as leaders of thousands, of hundreds, of fifties and of tens." Exodus 18:21

Unjustly obtained wealth should be recovered and redistributed to the poor:

"He that by usury and unjust gain increases his substance, he shall gather it for him that will pity the poor." -Proverbs 28:8

Biblical Requirement for Compassion for the Poor

Witholding compassion from those in need is a signal of spiritual death:

"The person who does not love remains spiritually dead. ... 17Whoever has earthly possessions and notices a brother in need and yet withholds his compassion from him, how can the love of God be present in him? " - 1 John 3:17

The humble collector of taxes will be exalted over the self-righteous (now, who does the Pharisee remind me of...?!?!):

"9Jesus[d] also told this parable to some people who trusted in themselves, thinking they were righteous, but who looked down on everyone else: 10â��Two men went up to the temple to pray. One was a Pharisee, and the other was a tax collector. 11The Pharisee stood by himself and prayed, â��O God, I thank you that I'm not like other peopleâ��thieves, dishonest people, adulterers, or even this tax collector. 12I fast twice a week, and I give a tenth of my entire income.â��

13â��But the tax collector stood at a distance and would not even look up to heaven. Instead, he continued to beat his chest and said, â��O God, be merciful to me, the sinner that I am!â��[e] 14I tell you, this man, rather than the other one, went down to his home justified, because everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, but the person who humbles himself will be exalted.â�� -Luke 18:9