PROBLEM customers - DPChallenge Forums

Nikon AF Nikkor 50mm f/1.4D

08/11/2008 07:35:51 PM · #26

Originally posted by icu1965:

Originally posted by Prof_Fate:
Who wants to be an ambassador? Two kinds of kids (parents too) - 'model' kids that want their ego fed, add to their list of things for college application, etc. and cheap ass folks. Cheap ass folks do it to save on money of course, and more often than not they have no class and are never satisfied. You may have just run into the second kind.

Well I did it as a favor to help get the photographers name out there. I'd like to say several things in response to your comment, but you already know everything, so I won't waste my time.
The OP's problem was solved and that's all that really matters anyways.

Say what you want about me - it's been said before. The OP apparently has not had enough experience to have seen this type of situation in the past or she'd not be asking for advice on how to handle it. I have seen this, or very similar customers, before. There are many ways to handle it and you (or the OP) have to find THEIR way to handle it - what works for them, their business, their personality.

I stand by what you quoted - if you offer cheap, discounted deals you get the type of customer that it appeals to - sometimes good people with too little money but just as often you get people too cheap to pay full price. This is why it's very important you decide who your clientele are going to be and keep focused on that client.

Same thing for ambassadors - who do you want for a client? That's the type of ambassadors you need. Want cheerleader clients? Chess club ambassadors won't being them in. Want clients from the 'richer' school in your area? Then you don't want abassadors from the 'ghetto' school.

Yes, I understand there is merit in getting any ambassadors, but some are not worth the trouble and expense.

rossbilly

Nikon D200

08/11/2008 10:00:01 PM · #27

Originally posted by icu1965:

I don't think this is very helpful, tbh. Regardless Chris' perceived attitude around here, he is STILL taking the time to share information that is useful.

Each of us has experiences that we can bring to the table. Wouldn't it be more productive to simply ADD to what Chris has said, rather than bicker & refute it? Have you ever noticed that his posts DO show personal errors on his part (ie - dangit, I screwed up, and hope YOU can avoid the mistake I made!)

It really isn't that difficult to set aside differences of opinion while still offering advice. Try it - you just might like it... and a lot MORE people will benefit from the knowledge & professionalism.

Thanks for listening. :)

PS - this is NOT solely aimed @ the person quoted above. Just pointing out that EVERY one can benefit from more information (rather than discouraging it).

Message edited by author 2008-08-11 22:05:29.

icu1965

Sony DSLR-A200

Sony 75-300 mm f/4.5-5.6

08/12/2008 09:26:47 AM · #28

I don't want you to think I'm some kind of hater. I was just replying to Chris's post because he sure sounded like he was judging people, and that to me is wrong. To tell someone that ambassadors are either cheap asses or need their egos fed didn't seem helpful, and was very mean. I probably should have waited until I wasn't so mad to reply and it probably would have made more sense.

Canon EF-S 17-55mm f/2.8 IS USM

08/12/2008 09:35:37 AM · #29

Originally posted by rossbilly:

Originally posted by icu1965:

Originally posted by Prof_Fate:
Who wants to be an ambassador? Two kinds of kids (parents too) - 'model' kids that want their ego fed, add to their list of things for college application, etc. and cheap ass folks. Cheap ass folks do it to save on money of course, and more often than not they have no class and are never satisfied. You may have just run into the second kind.

Well I did it as a favor to help get the photographers name out there. I'd like to say several things in response to your comment, but you already know everything, so I won't waste my time.
The OP's problem was solved and that's all that really matters anyways.

I don't think this is very helpful, tbh. Regardless Chris' perceived attitude around here, he is STILL taking the time to share information that is useful.

Each of us has experiences that we can bring to the table. Wouldn't it be more productive to simply ADD to what Chris has said, rather than bicker & refute it? Have you ever noticed that his posts DO show personal errors on his part (ie - dangit, I screwed up, and hope YOU can avoid the mistake I made!)

It really isn't that difficult to set aside differences of opinion while still offering advice. Try it - you just might like it... and a lot MORE people will benefit from the knowledge & professionalism.

Thanks for listening. :)

PS - this is NOT solely aimed @ the person quoted above. Just pointing out that EVERY one can benefit from more information (rather than discouraging it).

Unfortunately Chris' advice comes with Chris' attitude.

That lemonade may be delicious, but if there's bird poop in it, it's not so appetizing.

idnic

Canon EOS-60D

08/12/2008 09:43:35 AM · #30

I've mentioned this before, but perhaps it will help here. My Senior Ambassador program works like this:

I charge the rep full price for their session and their album (they must order an album). Along with their order, I give them rep cards (5x7 cards with their pictures and my logos & contact info). The rep card offers 20% discount on sitting fees for anyone who brings one in. For each rep card I receive back, the kid whose picture is on the card gets $25 cash. That's it. No free prints, no free sessions, etc. They actually have to do the work before they get anything. I interview the teen and the parents before offering them a rep position and I remind them that they can be removed from the program if they get into trouble at school. I just started my rep program this year and its already paying off well.

I have reps in 3 schools and would like to get 3 more schools before year's end. Letting kids market to kids is the best way to do it.... but it needs to be handled in a way that works for everyone.

As for the bitchy teen, I think a chat with her mother would probably go far. Remember YOU run YOUR business.... don't let the clients make decisions for you.

And for wallets - we only put the kid's graduating year on them, no logo, but my copyright notice is on the back of each (like that matters). lol

glad2badad

Apple iPhone 16 Pro

Lensbaby Sweet 35 Optic

08/12/2008 09:48:17 AM · #31

Originally posted by idnic:

... And for wallets - we only put the kid's graduating year on them, no logo, but my copyright notice is on the back of each (like that matters). lol

Cindi - Would you mind sharing what the text of your copyright notice says? Please, and thank you? :-) You can PM me if that's better suited.

idnic

Canon EOS-60D

Canon EF-S 17-55mm f/2.8 IS USM

08/12/2008 09:57:35 AM · #32

Originally posted by glad2badad:

Originally posted by idnic:
... And for wallets - we only put the kid's graduating year on them, no logo, but my copyright notice is on the back of each (like that matters). lol

Cindi - Would you mind sharing what the text of your copyright notice says? Please, and thank you? :-) You can PM me if that's better suited.

No problem. My print lab does it on every print. It says Copyright Protected by Penrod Studios 2008. Do Not Copy.

I don't think it will stop any kid from copying the images, but it sure will stop the wal-mart, walgreens, etc. labs from making those copies for them.

glad2badad

Apple iPhone 16 Pro

Lensbaby Sweet 35 Optic

08/12/2008 10:03:57 AM · #33

Thanks. :-)

FireBird

08/12/2008 10:44:59 AM · #34

Originally posted by Prof_Fate:

Cheap ass folks do it to save on money of course, and more often than not they have no class and are never satisfied. You may have just run into the second kind.

Somebody give me a call? I'm the cheap ass folks. :)

Don't know what the Senior and Mom were but after that drama she'd never darken the doorway of my studio again. Those cheap ass folks could be lawsuit happy too.

08/12/2008 04:27:31 PM · #35

I call them cheap ass folks- different places have different names for them - white trash, welfare this or that, etc. People that want something for nothing. I have a simple response to these folks - get a job, pay your bills and live happy. Some don't see to get it.
Yes, there are a few that are truly hard luck cases - but most if not all of then won't take a handout and often refuse help when offered no matter how badly it's needed.
Some want to be able to brag that they're a rep/model or what have you. That's fine for a rep.

One thing you'll likely never know is what the rep's reputation is at school. Like in real life there are leaders and followers, those that make and sway opinion and those that don't. There's a reason athletes get paid a big buck to be the spokesperson for a product or service. Same for ambassadors.

08/12/2008 06:29:25 PM · #36

Originally posted by Prof_Fate:

Chris, I realize that you do have some experience, and have some opinions, but why don't you preface them as such......all too often you manage to really drag the ire out of normally fairly reasonable people with comments like your "Two Kinds" people, or making comments like "You take work awaqy from the professionals when you shoot for free.".

There are just too may varaitions on any theme to make these comments without rubbing people the wrong way.

I have run into an awful lot of people who are truly good and decent people who have no money.

Some of us don't need anything more than to receive their undying gratitude when they do a portrait or two, for free or peanuts, just because they're good people.

And just maybe the for free ambassador program may work for both parties without it being a bad experience.

Not all people are out there scheming and scamming trying to get over on the world.

I don't know if you've had more than your share of bad luck or if it's a case of reaping what you sow......but perhaps you could bear that in mind as well.

Very few people have one iota of knowledge of what's entailed in being a photographer, yet you seem bound and determined to be intolerant and derisive of the people here trying to learn.....is it any wonder that you have issues with the general public that has no clue, or inclination?

Just some thoughts.....

08/12/2008 11:41:50 PM · #37

Originally posted by NikonJeb:

31 years working with the public has exposed me to all sorts of people and situations, and from both sides of the sale. Yes there are stereotypes, but guess what? Most are based in fact and truth. Most italian weddings are very similar, most 17 year olds think they know everything, most babies are cute.

Originally posted by NikonJeb:

I have run into an awful lot of people who are truly good and decent people who have no money. Some of us don't need anything more than to receive their undying gratitude when they do a portrait or two, for free or peanuts, just because they're good people.

Photography is a luxury good/service and not everyone can afford it- but that does not mean they are entitled to get it for free or at a discount. You want a double caramel latte light? You pay $4 or do without. People aren't feeling sorry for the caffeine addicts and giving away mocha latte's are they?

There are any number of charities that can use your time and talents - photo based ones like NILMDTS and even the local humane society can use help with fundraisers, calendars, christmas cards. Do portraits of soldiers and their families coming/going to overseas posts - they'll appreciate it and are truly on the strapped end, cash wise. So if you truly want to help people with your photography then do so.

Just don't say it's because 'they can't afford it'.

You can call me anything you want but human nature is, well, the way we are; you, me or all the posts in the world won't change it. Some folks buy the cheapest tire that fits their car and others buy Michelins. I've seen both on $1000 cars and both on $50,000 cars. Those that place a value on high price, status, or know michelins will spend the money on them. Those that know nothing about tires buy based on price alone.

Same for photography. So educate folks on what is a good image - composition, lighting, selective focus, posing, printing. Tell them why you have insurance, backup gear, the best lenses and what a portrait shot at 1.2 vs F11 will look like. So they've got an image - now what? Explain color accuracy, print fastness, paper options, finishes, framing, album options - can you give them any of these or do you feel shooting an image and handing them a disk is sufficient? Don't they deserve the best print or UV glass and a dust cover on the frame? Oh, you're not that generous, huh? Now you want them to pay for the frame, or will you thumb tack it to the wall and call it 'good enough'?

Why make a beautiful image to have them get a crappy print, if any print at all, and put it in a $2 frame with no mat so the print sticks to the glass, fades or fills with dust or worse?

Originally posted by NikonJeb:

And just maybe the for free ambassador program may work for both parties without it being a bad experience.

Not all people are out there scheming and scamming trying to get over on the world.

There is no free lunch. The abassadors isn't doing it for free, ever. They expect something - cash, prints, a session - something. And the photog isn't doing it for free either - they want referrals and paying customers sent to them. This just shows how much you don't know about professional photography and business in general.

Scheming and scamming? No, just a small percentage. But 'free' brings "them" out of the woodwork. Not everyone on welfare is a lazy bum, but i've seen MANY people work the welfare system, the unemployement comp system and such. Good, law abiding church going people too. It's human nature. Perhaps you live in the Land of Oz where it's all love and sunshine. You need to get out and experience the world some.

Originally posted by NikonJeb:

Very few people have one iota of knowledge of what's entailed in being a photographer, yet you seem bound and determined to be intolerant and derisive of the people here trying to learn.....is it any wonder that you have issues with the general public that has no clue, or inclination?

I'm not being intolerant. Walk into a car repair place and ask them how to change the water pump on your car. Most likely you'll be told to get out, that info isn't available for free. Better yet, tell them that you want to change your neighbor's water pump as he can't afford a pro to do it and you're think you'd enjoy the challenge of it. Guess what they'd tell you? I can't use those words on this forum!
So this being the BUSINESS forum, I figure the questions are being asked are related to BUSINESS. Photography related, but I can tell you that only 80% of all business is the same, the other 20% is the product/service.

Have you seen the McDonald's adds for a second Big Mac for 59 cents? Why would they do that? Not to feed the hungry that can't afford a $2 Big Mac! So you bring a friend to lunch and that friend is going to want a coke and fries - at full price. Perhaps cause they got the burger so cheap they'll binge and get a sundae for dessert. It's all a plot to get your money! It's BUSINESS.

Am I a tad hard edged at times? I suppose (LOL) I may come across that way on the net. But remember - i've got decades working with the public and it has taught me a few things, my college degree from a business school -not an art degree, so I do approach things from a very different direction than those that primarily use the opposite side of their brain from me. So I don't preface everything with 'IMO'. I kind of thought that would go without saying - it's my opinion when I state it, not someone elses.

Is my POV the only one? Of course not. But consider this. You've no doubt eaten out in a restaurant with a server (PC for waitress)? Different places have different ways of doing things. Some places the hostess (not PC for greeter LOL) will take your drink order or bring you bread. Other places the server does it. Some places the server brings your meal and other places a 'food runner' will do it. Some places the server writes your order down and others they remember it. Each restaurant has their unique take on it. BUT the basic rules of good service apply to ALL restaurants - clean, friendly, prompt service, keep the drinks full and the table clear of dirty dishes. Hot food should be hot, cold food cold. Don't spill anything on the guests. Ask if everything is OK. We can debate the color of the placemats or shape of the dishes, but the BASICS of running a restaurant are the SAME for EVERY restaurant. Business is business.

Message edited by author 2008-08-13 00:01:48.

08/13/2008 05:59:28 AM · #38

Originally posted by Prof_Fate:

35 years here, I've been exposed to the same, yet somehow I've managed to not become jaded and lump all people into categories.

Originally posted by NikonJeb:

Originally posted by Prof_Fate:

Yes, photography *IS* a luxury.......nobody *NEEDS* it, something I know when I'm talking to a potential customer, so I don't have an attitude about it.

Originally posted by Prof_Fate:

There are any number of charities that can use your time and talents - photo based ones like NILMDTS and even the local humane society can use help with fundraisers, calendars, christmas cards. Do portraits of soldiers and their families coming/going to overseas posts - they'll appreciate it and are truly on the strapped end, cash wise. So if you truly want to help people with your photography then do so.

Just don't say it's because 'they can't afford it'.

I'm not quite sure what that last little part was all about......*I* choose whom and at what level I help someone out.....I certainly don't want or need advice from you on that count.

Originally posted by Prof_Fate:

You can call me anything you want but human nature is, well, the way we are; you, me or all the posts in the world won't change it. Some folks buy the cheapest tire that fits their car and others buy Michelins. I've seen both on $1000 cars and both on $50,000 cars. Those that place a value on high price, status, or know michelins will spend the money on them. Those that know nothing about tires buy based on price alone.

Oh, that's RICH!!!!

Now you're going to give me business "Lessons" based on Michelin tires????????

I've been in the specialty car business for almost four decades.......I guess it shouldn't surprise me that you'd tell me about it.

BTW, status is just about the stupidest reason to buy a tire.........and Michelins are not necessarily worth the money, nor are they the right tire for every purpose. I've known many people that they were NOT right for and the money would have been wasted. Not to mention that you really must know the line, their offerings, and their history to properly select a Michelin.

I did recently purchase a set for my wife's car, and I've been delighted with them, but the average driver and owner of the same type of car would probably neither appreciate them nor need them in the same application.

Did you know that for many years Michelin made Sears' tires? You think those were consistent with the image that you apparently have of their product?

Originally posted by Prof_Fate:

Same for photography. So educate folks on what is a good image - composition, lighting, selective focus, posing, printing. Tell them why you have insurance, backup gear, the best lenses and what a portrait shot at 1.2 vs F11 will look like. So they've got an image - now what? Explain color accuracy, print fastness, paper options, finishes, framing, album options - can you give them any of these or do you feel shooting an image and handing them a disk is sufficient? Don't they deserve the best print or UV glass and a dust cover on the frame? Oh, you're not that generous, huh? Now you want them to pay for the frame, or will you thumb tack it to the wall and call it 'good enough'?

Why make a beautiful image to have them get a crappy print, if any print at all, and put it in a $2 frame with no mat so the print sticks to the glass, fades or fills with dust or worse?

And again.......I'll make that call as to how I deal with people.

Maybe I don't see the need to bore someone with a bunch of technical details if all thyey want is a nice picture.

Again, I'm not sure why you presume to tell me how to relate to people.....I really don't care much for your style, and my whole point of the reply was not to argue with you, but simply to point out that there are other ways to deal with the public at large.......and that in my opinion, you're pretty harsh and finite.

I'm not complaining on any level about my photography business, such as it is. I certainly don't need whatever it is that you see as your cause/quest in however you're doing it.

And that was my point.......if someone wants an opinion and the benefit of your experience, just help them out, or don't, but don't come down on them like a ton of bricks if they don't see things your way.

Originally posted by NikonJeb:

And just maybe the for free ambassador program may work for both parties without it being a bad experience.

Not all people are out there scheming and scamming trying to get over on the world.

Originally posted by Prof_Fate:

There is no free lunch.

Wow.....how sad it must be to be you.

Yes, there are free lunches along the way......I've given, and received free lunches. I call it enriching lives.

Originally posted by Prof_Fate:

The abassadors isn't doing it for free, ever. They expect something - cash, prints, a session - something. And the photog isn't doing it for free either - they want referrals and paying customers sent to them. This just shows how much you don't know about professional photography and business in general.

Yep! You are so much wiser and more experienced than I.......so apparent since you don't know me at all or my history.....or the businesses I've had and run along the way.

What I do have are many quality people all 'round the world I'm honored to call friends......and that's of much more value to me than the exchange of a few dollars.

In fact, I have friends from business dealings that have outlasted various business ventures.

Imagine that!

Originally posted by Prof_Fate:

Scheming and scamming? No, just a small percentage. But 'free' brings "them" out of the woodwork. Not everyone on welfare is a lazy bum, but i've seen MANY people work the welfare system, the unemployement comp system and such. Good, law abiding church going people too. It's human nature. Perhaps you live in the Land of Oz where it's all love and sunshine. You need to get out and experience the world some.

Originally posted by NikonJeb:

Originally posted by Prof_Fate:

Since I'm a helpful guy, let me explain how that works.

See, I had a British sports car shop of my own for two decades, with kind of a subculture of muscle- and high performance cars that I took care of as well.

If you knew the first thing about the car business, you'd know in that line of work you'd better be prepared to be helpful to the owners, or you'd be out of business quickly.

Real car freaks won't be talked down to, dismissed, or treated badly, and how you treat them will affect whether or not they'll spend any money in your establishment. I told many people how to do this or that along the way......and got THOUSANDS of dolllars worth of business.......AND REFERRALS......because of my manner of doing business. Many of these same people became delightful friends whom I still see and spend time with to this day. These relationships lasted through various levels of service and through additional cars over the years. There was additions to my customer base, but I rarely lost customers once I worked with them for a while.

It's an investment of the spirit, and in a business that involves art and passion, you better learn how to get along with people.....just something I learned along the way.....

BTW......I'm particularly fond of this experience:[thumb]538750[/thumb]

The man that I restored this car for is a very dear friend of the family. I met him, in my shop, more than twenty years ago.....his trust in me was exemplified when he purchased this car and spent $55,000 having me redo the car in the best manner for his usage. This trust was something built over time, and I would not have been able to restore this car for him had I not taken the time to get to know him on a personal level. He is just one example of the customer base that I had who brought me their cars, and trusted me to make decisions on their care because of HOW I did business.....and that it was about them, NOT their cars or the money.

My point is that apparently, we view the world entirely differently, and you'll have to learn at some point that it's not all about money for some people.

I'm pretty sure that I wouldn't succeed in your world.....and that's fine with me.

I can assure you that you wouldn't succeed in mine.....that's okay, too.

Originally posted by Prof_Fate:

So this being the BUSINESS forum, I figure the questions are being asked are related to BUSINESS. Photography related, but I can tell you that only 80% of all business is the same, the other 20% is the product/service.

Have you seen the McDonald's adds for a second Big Mac for 59 cents? Why would they do that? Not to feed the hungry that can't afford a $2 Big Mac! So you bring a friend to lunch and that friend is going to want a coke and fries - at full price. Perhaps cause they got the burger so cheap they'll binge and get a sundae for dessert. It's all a plot to get your money! It's BUSINESS.

But we aren't always necessarily discussing business in black & white.......it's not always that way, ESPECIALLY in a business where what you're purveying is a luxury.

People have to eat, they do NOT have to get portraits done.

Originally posted by Prof_Fate:

Am I a tad hard edged at times? I suppose (LOL) I may come across that way on the net. But remember - i've got decades working with the public and it has taught me a few things, my college degree from a business school -not an art degree, so I do approach things from a very different direction than those that primarily use the opposite side of their brain from me. So I don't preface everything with 'IMO'. I kind of thought that would go without saying - it's my opinion when I state it, not someone elses.

Is my POV the only one? Of course not. But consider this. You've no doubt eaten out in a restaurant with a server (PC for waitress)? Different places have different ways of doing things. Some places the hostess (not PC for greeter LOL) will take your drink order or bring you bread. Other places the server does it. Some places the server brings your meal and other places a 'food runner' will do it. Some places the server writes your order down and others they remember it. Each restaurant has their unique take on it. BUT the basic rules of good service apply to ALL restaurants - clean, friendly, prompt service, keep the drinks full and the table clear of dirty dishes. Hot food should be hot, cold food cold. Don't spill anything on the guests. Ask if everything is OK. We can debate the color of the placemats or shape of the dishes, but the BASICS of running a restaurant are the SAME for EVERY restaurant. Business is business.

And if that works for you, great.......just remember that yours isn't the only POV, and there are many of us that have managed to establish a delightful balance between money and accomplishment where much of the rewards cannot be spelled out with a dollar sign.....and have had greatly enriched lives because of the experiences gained.

Canon EF-S 17-55mm f/2.8 IS USM

08/13/2008 08:36:12 AM · #39

Your ignorance of how the world works is showing again. Status is a very popular reason people buy things. Starbucks, Lezus, Gucci - and a million other 'status' brands sell on STATUS and that alone! So yes, it is an important BUSINESS less that apparently you have not learned.

BTW, I have no idea what you 'day' job is. I do find it interesting that YOU are offended that I talk about your line of work/field of knowledge but I'm not supposed to be when you talk about mine! BTW, I spent 17 years in the motorsports industry (moslty motorcycles, but car dealerships as well in several capacities, so I do know what I'm talking about in this area)

Ever wonder why so many car repair places close at noon on saturdays? Cause it about 2 pm when the backyard mechanics start caling in for help cause they've started something that morning and got in over their heads and need help. I'm sure you've had botched jobs brought in - the owner usually expects to pay the same or less ('since I already started the work for you') and often tell you how to do the job that they can't finish. I worked as a mechanic, service advisor and service manager at a couple of motorcycle shops and car dealers so I know exaclty what it's like to have the "customer" stand there and want you to tell them how to fix their bike for free. Am I harsh? You never met my bosses then. Would you pay an employee to tell someone that walked in off the street how to fix their car? I doubt it. You'd politely tell them to bring it 'round and you'll be happy to fix it. You cannot stay in business unless you get paid for what you do. It is not possible. You say you've run several businesses...how have you not learned this then? Hell, most techs are flat rate and won't give you the time of day let alone stand around and tell a stranger how to fix their car!

You can help whomever you want. All I said was 'they can't afford it' is a common justification and it's often a lie. They CAN afford it - they choose to spend their money elsewhere.

Originally posted by nikonjeb:

Yep! You are so much wiser and more experienced than I.......so apparent since you don't know me at all or my history.....or the businesses I've had and run along the way.

And you don't anything about me either - so what's your point?

People have to eat. Yes, but they don't have to eat out. If they can't afford a $50 steak dinner should the restaurant give it to them for free? Should you make them a steak dinner? Of course not. So why should you be doing pictures for them for free (or really cheap)? Because you love it is a valid answer. Because they can't afford it is BS.

idnic

Canon EOS-60D

08/13/2008 09:32:33 AM · #40

Wow. Just wow.

You both sound like a couple of school boys fighting over a ball.

rossbilly

Nikon D200

Nikon AF Nikkor 50mm f/1.4D

08/13/2008 09:58:54 AM · #41

Actually, please DON'T stop this discussion :)

I think it is VERY helpful to see you both pointing out similarities & differences. While the dialog might not be 'polite', it is useful to see both your viewpoints - as BOTH of them have tidbits of truth (even though they seem opposites on the surface).

Of course, I also think that you'd both learn plenty from each other IN PERSON (alot is lost in the online presentation). Show up @ WPPI 2009 & I'll buy you both a beer & you can shake hands. Deal?

Billy

08/13/2008 06:13:29 PM · #42

Originally posted by rossbilly:

That would be great, but I won't be at WPPI. I don't fly, but that's a whole nuther story.

You're right, there is a lot to learn from differing points of view. Each person has to make their own policies. For example, going back to the restaurant thing (sorry, but we can all relate to it) lets look at fast food. Some places make you sign a CC receipt, others do not. Some don't take CC's at all. I've been in other businesses that have big signs "No Change", or 'Minumum CC charge is $10". Minumum of $15 order on deliveries, "Bounced checks will incur $25 fee", etc. Toys R us is extremely strict on returns - sometimes even with a receipt they wont even exchange an item for store credit! Yet walmart will take back most anything, sometimes stuff they didn't even sell in the first place! Every person has their tolerance level for different things.
I know some photogs that tack on fees (car repair places too) for various things - 'environmental fee', 'lab fee' or some such. I personally don't like such fees and don't charge them, but totally understand the reason behind them. I would like to include option on albums as part of the package (such as imprinting, leather, gilding, etc) but if people are willing (and almost expecting) to pay $25 or $50 for each option why not take their money?

I've been told that with seniors never give many wallets - make them buy them as add ons. The flip side is to give them tons of wallets to they will give them away freely to all their friends and that promotes you. This is debatable. That you should be paid for taking the pics and printing the wallets, and at the market rate at least, is not debatable IMO. See, I even said it - opinion.

08/13/2008 08:51:47 PM · #43

Originally posted by idnic:

Wow. Just wow.

You both sound like a couple of school boys fighting over a ball.

Jeez... Will someone just take the ball away from them both...

08/13/2008 09:33:35 PM · #44

Originally posted by Spazmo99:

Originally posted by idnic:
Wow. Just wow.

You both sound like a couple of school boys fighting over a ball.

Jeez... Will someone just take the ball away from them both...

I think we're having fun. Perhaps we should charge admission. I don't hear anyone yelling for blood yet.

08/13/2008 11:31:58 PM · #45

Originally posted by idnic:

Wow. Just wow.

You both sound like a couple of school boys fighting over a ball.

Hey whatever.....I just get tired of listening to this guy beat people up then spout off about things he knows nothing about.

If you find what I had to say in error, perhaps you could enlighten me.

Do you actually have something you could specifically point out?

I try not to speak of what I have no experience in......I'm pretty much done.

Trying to talk to this guy and get him to have consideration for others seems to be a waste of time and effort.

Bye.

08/13/2008 11:33:49 PM · #46

Originally posted by Prof_Fate:

Originally posted by Spazmo99:

Originally posted by idnic:
Wow. Just wow.

You both sound like a couple of school boys fighting over a ball.

Jeez... Will someone just take the ball away from them both...

I think we're having fun. Perhaps we should charge admission. I don't hear anyone yelling for blood yet.

Maybe you two should kiss and make up...get a room if that's what it takes.

08/13/2008 11:46:50 PM · #47

Originally posted by Prof_Fate:

Your ignorance of how the world works is showing again.

Hey, you're just right in all you say and do, and I'm mistaken.

Bye.

08/13/2008 11:52:40 PM · #48

Originally posted by Spazmo99:

Originally posted by Prof_Fate:

Originally posted by Spazmo99:

Originally posted by idnic:
Wow. Just wow.

You both sound like a couple of school boys fighting over a ball.

Jeez... Will someone just take the ball away from them both...

I think we're having fun. Perhaps we should charge admission. I don't hear anyone yelling for blood yet.

Maybe you two should kiss and make up...get a room if that's what it takes.

I just am sort of surprised at the way this is headed when allmy original intention was to try and lessen the abuse heaped on the OP by this piece of work who calls himself a pro, helps himself to whatever he can get here, has been taken to task for this behavior in the past, and shows not one iota of remorse or inclination to change.

Screw this nonsense, I'm certainly not going to try and offer up any help to get the thread on track relative to decent treatment if all of you are just going to sit back and make snide remarks.

Have at it.