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DPChallenge Forums >> General Discussion >> How to figure out how you are doing over time.
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 11/17/2003 08:20:56 PM · #1
Here is a relatively simple way to guage how you compare to others in the challenges. Simply add up the total of all your places in the challenges you have entered and divide it by the total of the number of pictures submitted in all the challenges you have entered. For example: in the last 50 challenges I have entered I have placed 3001 out of 8188 total pictures in the challenges. by dividing 3001 by 8188 I get .3665 which means my pictures on average are in the top 36% of voting. I can compare this also to my average score over the 50 challenges which, for the sake of this discussion, is 5.56. I can use these numbers to compare to the totals of all submissions or I can use it to see how I improve over time. I have used this formula to see if my picture taking ability is improving and if others are liking what they see.
 11/17/2003 08:44:25 PM · #2
So what you are saying is that if someone places number 1 in the last 50 challenges, then he is 50th? ;)

Sorry, could pass that one up. That is a pretty good system for gauging yourself. You could also run a rolling average to track your progress. Basically, take the average of the current challenge and the previous 9 challenges. With each new challenge, you drop the oldest in your average. I don't have enough to make it worthwhile, but I took the liberty of running your numbers through it. You are doing pretty well. See for yourself...

11/17/2003 08:48:02 PM · #3
Nice work Trinch. A pair of graphs like that, as both score and place can be important, as a site feature would be awesome.

I think I'll do myself up an excel sheet of my scores and start to track them that way.
 11/17/2003 09:08:16 PM · #4
Good idea. Are you in the Stock Market? That is a technique for determining when to buy and sell stocks.
 11/17/2003 11:34:00 PM · #5
I don't have alot of numbers either, but I did a take on this technique. I plotted my percentile [1-(place/N)]/100 where N is number of shots in challenge. It's just the reverse of what Trinch plots; if he plots 0.1, I plot, 0.9 (90%), if he plots 0.44, I plot 56%, etc.
I also plotted score on the same graph, using a secondary Y axis. Then I plotted a smoothed curve by taking a moving average, in this case of 5 points, centered on the currentl point. Less than 5 points are averaged at the beginning and end of the plot, of course.
I think this kind of plot is a great way of tracking progress. I like the way mine is looking, but I won't like it so much after this week, LOL.




Message edited by author 2003-11-17 23:35:31.
 11/17/2003 11:53:25 PM · #6
Show-off!!!

;-)
 11/18/2003 02:45:10 AM · #7
Originally posted by lnede:
Here is a relatively simple way to guage how you compare to others in the challenges. Simply add up the total of all your places in the challenges you have entered and divide it by the total of the number of pictures submitted in all the challenges you have entered. For example: in the last 50 challenges I have entered I have placed 3001 out of 8188 total pictures in the challenges. by dividing 3001 by 8188 I get .3665 which means my pictures on average are in the top 36% of voting. I can compare this also to my average score over the 50 challenges which, for the sake of this discussion, is 5.56. I can use these numbers to compare to the totals of all submissions or I can use it to see how I improve over time. I have used this formula to see if my picture taking ability is improving and if others are liking what they see.

If you consider the score allocated by others to be a true measure of value.

Alternatively use this simple evaluative method: Do you like your pictures?
 11/18/2003 03:00:49 AM · #8
You can't look at your own pictures and be truly objective though.

I loved some of my early challenge photos. I could not understand why they scored so badly.

With more experience I can look back and realise why they did so poorly, and quite rightly (with hindsight).

It's no good me taking a badly focused, badly composed, badly light photo of some goat's backside at 300 meters and going "Yes, I like that" when everyone else mught look and go "huh?".

You can never be truly objective about your own work, and looking to see what a large group of people think, though far from perfect, is realistically probably the best way to assess yourself, especially comparatively.
 11/18/2003 03:15:36 AM · #9
Originally posted by Natator:
You can't look at your own pictures and be truly objective though.

I loved some of my early challenge photos. I could not understand why they scored so badly.

With more experience I can look back and realise why they did so poorly, and quite rightly (with hindsight).

It's no good me taking a badly focused, badly composed, badly light photo of some goat's backside at 300 meters and going "Yes, I like that" when everyone else mught look and go "huh?".

You can never be truly objective about your own work, and looking to see what a large group of people think, though far from perfect, is realistically probably the best way to assess yourself, especially comparatively.

And you consider that an opinion based on a reduced size picture, displayed on a poor medium to be any more valid? If you wish to find out how well you pander to the vote giving public then assessing your work based on the average vote received is valid, if you dislike your work because of the score you need to assess yourself.
 11/18/2003 04:23:26 AM · #10
But Rob - a reduced size picture displayed on a poor medium is exactly the challenge that we all enter. Photographhic ability is more than just taking great photos once in a while, it is also being able to judge and please your audience - that is part of mastering the medium. Once you/we/one can do that, then you/we/one can really move on to taking the photos you really want, photos that are truly your own. That, I think, is why a numer of people either stop submitting, or their scores after a period of regularly rating very highly, begin to 'slump' back into the 5.xxx's.

There is a valid element to the group judgement you get from dpc - just as there is a bunch of stuff people in general miss.

Ed
 11/18/2003 04:49:53 AM · #11
Ed

So let me see if I've got this straight - I must be able to take photos for other people before I am able to take photos for myself?

I have no illusions about being a professional photographer and compiling a portfolio of marketable images, I take photos for fun, I find it relaxing (in the main), and it's a means of showing people part of my world.
 11/18/2003 05:35:06 AM · #12
Originally posted by robsmith:
Ed

So let me see if I've got this straight - I must be able to take photos for other people before I am able to take photos for myself?

I have no illusions about being a professional photographer and compiling a portfolio of marketable images, I take photos for fun, I find it relaxing (in the main), and it's a means of showing people part of my world.


And you do it, in my opinion, very well - excellently, in a couple of instances.

Originally posted by robsmith:
If you wish to find out how well you pander to the vote giving public then assessing your work based on the average vote received is valid


One of the reasons for entering challenges (and please note that 'one of'), is precisely that, no?

My point really was that attempting to score well in these challenges is a hell of a good way to practise, and eventually to gain some degree of mastery of the medium; and the assessing of other's work, and the criticising of it, is a damn good way to improve one's understanding of it all too - though in both cases it can only take one so far.

(I'm not suggesting this applies to you personally, though it might) It's very difficult to be aware of the things you don't know or haven't realised: I'm absolutely certain my understanding of photography, and my appreciation of photography will be different in a year's time from what it is now. And it's certainly wildly different from the way it was in March, when I found this place.

Ed
 11/18/2003 07:00:48 AM · #13
In a way photography is like wearing clothes. One might like what they look like wearing a particular syle, color or arrangement, but its nice to hear others opinions of how you look in those clothes as well. It might help you see yourself more clearly the next time.
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