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 08/13/2008 11:04:07 AM · #151
All you have done is strengthen the belief that it is ok to be on welfare.
 08/13/2008 11:21:17 AM · #152
Originally posted by coronamv:
All you have done is strengthen the belief that it is ok to be on welfare.


In who, you? You won't ever change your mind no matter what I say. There is nothing wrong with taking advantage of social programs like foodstamps if you qualify. Do you feel like I should be ashamed. You should feel ashamed at your self righteousness and worship of money. How much money do you make a year? How much of it do you give to charities? Do you help those less fortunate than yourself or do you horde your money to buy toys for yourself? I suspect the latter. Being selfish and greedy and self righteous are shameful indeed.
 08/13/2008 11:52:05 AM · #153
Originally posted by coronamv:
I do firmly believe you dponlyme are just making excuses to get benefits that you do not qualify for. So yes he's cheating the system.


Take care when accusing people of fraud.

Originally posted by coronamv:
Although Mathew you fail to realize you live in a socialistic style government and society and I live in a republic that is based on Capitalism.


Hardly. We both live in states that are based on socially responsible and regulated capitalism. The difference is in the degree of social responsibility assumed. The US and UK welfare systems are not so far apart.
 08/13/2008 12:34:31 PM · #154
An able body and an able mind should be able to work and earn a living. If you can afford the luxuries in life then you should not be using tax payers money to pay for the necessities. Use the money you are paying for the luxuries with to buy food and shelter. If your business or job is not capable of sustaining both the luxuries and the necessities then maybe you need to look for another job that can sustain your life. Thus if you cannot find a job with your skill set then go get a grant or a federal loan and better yourself. And your right about the fact I buy what I choose with the money I earn. In fact going to get me a new kayak paddle today and don't feel a bit bad about spending the money since I earned it.
 08/13/2008 12:40:41 PM · #155
So back to the O.P. â€Â¦ should we contact the campaign and try to get Barack to join DPC?
 08/13/2008 12:55:37 PM · #156
I spent years on food stamps and don't know what I would have done without them... I also had a camera and a computer that my parents got me in high school... I wasn't about to part with what I had just because I couldn't afford what I needed. I don't think a whole lot of taxpayers would realistically expect me to.

My kids were also on government sponsored health insurance.

Without this help, I wouldn't be where I am now. Independent, healthy, thankful, and not owing thousands in medical bills.
 08/13/2008 12:56:23 PM · #157
Originally posted by metatate:
So back to the O.P. â€Â¦ should we contact the campaign and try to get Barack to join DPC?


oops :)

YES
 08/13/2008 01:40:22 PM · #158
So what changed in your life to get you off welfare? Also so instead of you owing thousands now the tax payers owe the thousands. Does that really seem fair?
Originally posted by cynthiann:
I spent years on food stamps and don't know what I would have done without them... I also had a camera and a computer that my parents got me in high school... I wasn't about to part with what I had just because I couldn't afford what I needed. I don't think a whole lot of taxpayers would realistically expect me to.

My kids were also on government sponsored health insurance.

Without this help, I wouldn't be where I am now. Independent, healthy, thankful, and not owing thousands in medical bills.
08/13/2008 01:48:52 PM · #159
Originally posted by coronamv:
... then go get a grant or a federal loan and better yourself.

Something like, say, Food Stamps?
 08/13/2008 01:59:19 PM · #160
Speaking as SC: Get this threadback on track and OFF the personal attacks and self-righteous judgements or it will be locked.

Speaking as a person: I'm disgusted by your point of view, coronamv. I'm sorry I ever read your words to confirm a person with your beliefs exists in the world.
 08/13/2008 02:06:14 PM · #161
No not like food stamps.. Or a check for doing nothing, but money for school a better education.
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Originally posted by coronamv:
... then go get a grant or a federal loan and better yourself.

Something like, say, Food Stamps?
08/13/2008 02:20:36 PM · #162
I'm not 100% sure why this thread turned into a philosophical rant about ... well, whatever it is about ...

But I'll chime in:

I believe the idea that the "market" will solve all the world's problems is a myth.

The market doesn't care about people that get into trouble, have unforeseen problems, or just can't quite make ends meet. The market cares about shareholders, CEOs, and profits. Take payday loan companies for example - here are businesses that can sometimes end up charging 300% for some of their loans ... the government is stepping in because it doesn't help anyone in the end other than those companies and their profiteers.

I use this example rather than mortgage loans simply because most people are already fully aware that those haven't been working too well - can you say "crisis?"

There's always people that are well off that say "If I can do it, anybody can do it!" ... "Pull yourself by your own boostraps!" .... and go on their merry way complaining about paying too much in taxes. That's a good personal philosophy for people to have I suppose, but a better one would be "here's my hand ...".

In the end, the failure of usury represents the divide of rich and poor - and it merely adds to the wide chasm we witness today.

Anyway, has anyone sent Barack a PM yet???

08/13/2008 02:34:54 PM · #163
Originally posted by coronamv:
So what changed in your life to get you off welfare? Also so instead of you owing thousands now the tax payers owe the thousands. Does that really seem fair?


I don't know if fair is the word. Nothing in life is fair. If everyone started in the same position, then I suppose there might be a fair, but they are not.

I am in a position to lend a hand now that I no longer need to accept one. After all is said and done, that is what is really important.

Originally posted by metatate:
There's always people that are well off that say "If I can do it, anybody can do it!" ... "Pull yourself by your own boostraps!" .... and go on their merry way complaining about paying too much in taxes. That's a good personal philosophy for people to have I suppose, but a better one would be "here's my hand ...".


Beautifully put!!
 08/13/2008 02:43:03 PM · #164
I guess my question is what did you do to make your life better to get yourself out of needing a handout... Also I have advocated it is up to your friends, family and church to provide you with what you need not the government.
 08/13/2008 02:44:05 PM · #165
Originally posted by coronamv:
No not like food stamps.. Or a check for doing nothing, but money for school a better education.
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Originally posted by coronamv:
... then go get a grant or a federal loan and better yourself.

Something like, say, Food Stamps?

If you have $50 you can buy food or a textbook. If you have $50 and Food Stamps you can buy food and a textbook. Which scenario is likely to lead to a more productive citizen who can later contribute to the general good, and which is likely to lead to a taxpayer-funded visit to an Emergency Room packed with starving students?
 08/13/2008 02:46:03 PM · #166
Originally posted by coronamv:
I guess my question is what did you do to make your life better to get yourself out of needing a handout... Also I have advocated it is up to your friends, family and church to provide you with what you need not the government.

Do you advocate the same for multinational corporations, who get tax "advantages" unavailable to the ordinary citizen?

BTW: Please define the difference between a "grant" and a "handout" ...
 08/13/2008 02:48:07 PM · #167
Originally posted by coronamv:
Also I have advocated it is up to your friends, family and church to provide you with what you need not the government.


Some people have none of the above, what shall we do with them?
 08/13/2008 03:16:13 PM · #168
If you have $50 you can buy food or a carton of cigaretts. If you have food stamps too, you can trade them for beer and have cigaretts and beer.

Originally posted by GeneralE:
Originally posted by coronamv:
No not like food stamps.. Or a check for doing nothing, but money for school a better education.
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Originally posted by coronamv:
... then go get a grant or a federal loan and better yourself.

Something like, say, Food Stamps?

If you have $50 you can buy food or a textbook. If you have $50 and Food Stamps you can buy food and a textbook. Which scenario is likely to lead to a more productive citizen who can later contribute to the general good, and which is likely to lead to a taxpayer-funded visit to an Emergency Room packed with starving students?

08/13/2008 03:17:14 PM · #169
Originally posted by trevytrev:
Originally posted by coronamv:
Also I have advocated it is up to your friends, family and church to provide you with what you need not the government.


Some people have none of the above, what shall we do with them?


"Let them eat cake"
 08/13/2008 03:27:12 PM · #170
This inherent distrust of the human race is what fuels the divide in our culture. There's an assumption that people will rob the money from government when given the chance, which equates to robbing out of the pockets of the overtaxed wealthy. Again, a myth.

Originally posted by David Ey:
If you have $50 you can buy food or a carton of cigaretts. If you have food stamps too, you can trade them for beer and have cigaretts and beer.
08/13/2008 03:32:36 PM · #171
Originally posted by GeneralE:
If you have $50 you can buy food or a textbook. If you have $50 and Food Stamps you can buy food and a textbook. Which scenario is likely to lead to a more productive citizen who can later contribute to the general good, and which is likely to lead to a taxpayer-funded visit to an Emergency Room packed with starving students?


Why, in this current conversation, when coronamv writes, do images of Matt Foley: Motivational Speaker keep appearing in my head?
 08/13/2008 04:04:58 PM · #172
The requirement for you to acomplish a set of goals to get the grant. Compaired to just someone giving you something for nothing. With a grant you must attempt at the very least to make a certain GPA, be enrolled in some form of higher learning.
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Originally posted by coronamv:
I guess my question is what did you do to make your life better to get yourself out of needing a handout... Also I have advocated it is up to your friends, family and church to provide you with what you need not the government.

Do you advocate the same for multinational corporations, who get tax "advantages" unavailable to the ordinary citizen?

BTW: Please define the difference between a "grant" and a "handout" ...
08/13/2008 07:01:36 PM · #173
Originally posted by metatate:


There's always people that are well off that say "If I can do it, anybody can do it!" ... "Pull yourself by your own boostraps!" .... and go on their merry way complaining about paying too much in taxes. That's a good personal philosophy for people to have I suppose, but a better one would be "here's my hand ...".

In the end, the failure of usury represents the divide of rich and poor - and it merely adds to the wide chasm we witness today.

Anyway, has anyone sent Barack a PM yet???


I am not 'well off'. I am not from a rich family. But I can take care of myself. (admittedly through a bit of government help) ..I just don't think people deserve unending help...as long as they can take care of themselves.
 08/13/2008 07:02:56 PM · #174
Originally posted by GeneralE:

If you have $50 you can buy food or a textbook. If you have $50 and Food Stamps you can buy food and a textbook. Which scenario is likely to lead to a more productive citizen who can later contribute to the general good, and which is likely to lead to a taxpayer-funded visit to an Emergency Room packed with starving students?


So...does this mean you would support a plan like I proposed?

A person , in need, would recieve money for food, shelter, bills AND COLLEGE until they graduated...and for a bit longer for them to get on their feet.

This would allow them an education....with no debt and way to take care of themselves.

08/13/2008 07:05:05 PM · #175
Originally posted by GeneralE:

Do you advocate the same for multinational corporations, who get tax "advantages" unavailable to the ordinary citizen?

BTW: Please define the difference between a "grant" and a "handout" ...


Might not matter...but I think exactlyt he same way for corporations. They don't deserve tax breaks...they should pay the exact same as everyone else.

Why should they pass less just because they bought a senator a boat? Or paid for a commercial? (I know you weren't advocating for tax breaks, they were rhetorical)

There are tons of things that need changing in the government. Welfare is just one of many.

EDIT:
Grant--Used to better yourself and lead to a more productive job that keeps you off welfare

Handout-Used to feed you this month. Keeps you on the governments 'mercy'. Perpetuates poverty.

Message edited by author 2008-08-13 19:06:02.
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