Quoting from the Bible - DPChallenge Forums

08/05/2008 10:48:51 AM · #301

farfel53, a completely serious question: Why would put God all the ugly and cruel stuff in his book? He must have had a very good reason.

08/05/2008 10:53:02 AM · #302

Originally posted by Buckeye_Fan:

Because I believe in my heart that I will meet him. I could be totally wrong.

This sounds like a wish or hope to me. Which is totally ok, of course. The question is: Where do you get the idea that you'll go to heaven? In Sunday school. And where did the people teaching you there get the idea? Probably from other people. And where did they get it from? The Bible.

Originally posted by Buckeye_Fan:

I consider all of the Bible reliable

08/05/2008 10:53:46 AM · #303

Originally posted by Sam94720:

Originally posted by Bear_Music:
That's Old testament stuff. The Hebrew God was a God of Wrath. This is basically where Jesus, the Messiah, parted ways with the Hebrews; he brought the message of a God of Compassion. Christianity focuses on the New Testament, which is basically about the teachings of Jesus.

A lot of the Christian views which influence current political discussions (on gay marriage, abortion, stem cell research, war etc.) are based on Old Testament texts. However, whenever Old Testament cruelties are criticized, Christians will say something like "That's OT, we've had an update since then, it is no longer relevant.". It's all part of the cherry picking. Should we disregard the Ten Commandments, too, because their in the OT?

Jesus reminds people of the law that disobedient children have to be killed in the New Testament, Mark 7:9-10. So your "That's OT!" argument doesn't even apply here.

There is supposed to be a separation of Church and State. Anymore there isn't one. And to me, that's wrong. How someone worships, is their business. You are speaking about Christian radicals. Whom, IMHO, uses God as an excuse but personally I don't think they know half the time what they are talking about. Because they don't what God's true intentions are.

Gay marriage - the argument in the laws are about a Christian ideal. Nothing more. It doesn't matter whether 2 people love each other and have a private life, some Christians have to interfere. Being a Christian, I guess I go against what the Bible says. Does that make me a hypocrit against the Bible, maybe but I have compassion and believe in the privacy of other. I don't live their life, so why should I be in the middle of it.

Abortion - I'm pro choice, again I probably go against what the Bible says, but again, I don't live that woman's life that wants to make a choice on what she does or does not what to do.

Stem Cell Research - All for it. God gave us brains to use and if it saves a life or cures cancer or any other condition or disease...again all for it.

War - there is war in the Bible. I'm very against war.

So, I have read the OT and the NT, I don't disregard any of it.

Message edited by author 2008-08-05 11:09:46.

RonB

Canon EOS-300D Rebel

08/05/2008 10:56:00 AM · #304

Originally posted by Sam94720:

Be careful - be very, very careful to never quote the United States Supreme Court's decision in the case of [Dred] Scott v. Sanford, lest you be accused of supporting slavery, and of holding that people of African descent should never be granted the rights reserved for citizens in the United States - even though that decision was overturned by the 14th amendment.
Because, according to the logic you employ with Jesus quoting Moses, it seems that if you QUOTE it, you must agree with it, even though it is no longer applicable.

Oh, and for what it's worth, the ten commandments are repeated in the New Testament - that's why we should not disregard them.

08/05/2008 10:57:14 AM · #305

Originally posted by Sam94720:

Originally posted by Buckeye_Fan:
Because I believe in my heart that I will meet him. I could be totally wrong.

This sounds like a wish or hope to me. Which is totally ok, of course. The question is: Where do you get the idea that you'll go to heaven? In Sunday school. And where did the people teaching you there get the idea? Probably from other people. And where did they get it from? The Bible.

Originally posted by Buckeye_Fan:
I consider all of the Bible reliable
.
Then I can only wonder why you don't follow it and start killing disobedient children, homosexuals, people working on Saturdays, etc.

That's why God gives us free will. To make a choice. You are so concentrating on the laws that God brought down at the time of when it was written. Yes, times are much different now then when it was written but just because I feel the Bible is reliable doesn't mean that I agree with everything it says. God has given me that ability.

Message edited by author 2008-08-05 11:09:12.

08/05/2008 10:58:10 AM · #306

Originally posted by Sam94720:

farfel53, a completely serious question: Why would put God all the ugly and cruel stuff in his book? He must have had a very good reason.

And hopefully one day, I can ask, "why did you tell about the ugly and cruel stuff in your book?"

08/05/2008 11:02:11 AM · #307

Originally posted by Buckeye_Fan:

Being a Christian, I guess I go against what the Bible says. Does that make me a hypocrit against the Bible, maybe but I have compassion and believe in the privacy of other. I don't live their life, so why should I be in the middle of it.

Abortion - I'm pro choice, again I probably go against what the Bible says, but again, I don't live that woman's life that wants to make a choice on what she does or does not what to do.

Stem Cell Research - All for it. God gave us brains to use and if it saves a life or cures cancer or any other condition or disease...again all for it.

War - there is war in the Bible. I'm very against war.

Originally posted by Buckeye_Fan:

I still don't get the whole "choosing what parts I like".

See above.

Originally posted by Buckeye_Fan:

You assume that I disregard the Bible, quite the opposite actually.

Originally posted by Buckeye_Fan:

So, I have read the OT and the NT, I don't regard any of it.

Something does not compute.

08/05/2008 11:02:50 AM · #308

Originally posted by Buckeye_Fan:

Looks like we have similar views on these political issues. And whatever your positions are based on, it is certainly not the Bible, as you write yourself. Is it a Christian faith? I doubt it, because that Christian faith would be based on the Bible in turn. Is it plain common sense and compassion? I think so.

Would you agree with these, for example?

08/05/2008 11:05:01 AM · #309

Originally posted by Sam94720:

I do hope and wish that I meet God some day. And yes, I was taught. But you don't always believe everything you are taught, I believe this.

Originally posted by Buckeye_Fan:

I consider all of the Bible reliable

.
Then I can only wonder why you don't follow it and start killing disobedient children, homosexuals, people working on Saturdays, etc.

And an additional question: If you consider yourself a good Christian and believe the Bible to be the word of God, why don't you read the whole book very carefully from cover to cover? [/quote]

And what would be the purpose of reading it from cover to cover? Could I understand it anymore that what I do. Maybe, but I'd still have questions. I have read quite a bit of the good book. When my Father passed away 3 years ago, I put my grief and heartache in God's hands to help me. My Bible sits on my night stand next to me every night. It gives me peace. I may have not read it all but I could depend that some passages I would read would ease my pain of losing my Dad so suddenly.

08/05/2008 11:05:43 AM · #310

Originally posted by RonB:

Be careful - be very, very careful to never quote the United States Supreme Court's decision... Because, according to the logic you employ with Jesus quoting Moses, it seems that if you QUOTE it, you must agree with it, even though it is no longer applicable.

Nobody considers the Supreme Court to be the will of an omniscient deity, so you'll have to point to the update where God says His will is no longer applicable.

08/05/2008 11:08:01 AM · #311

Originally posted by scalvert:

Originally posted by Buckeye_Fan:
Being a Christian, I guess I go against what the Bible says. Does that make me a hypocrit against the Bible, maybe but I have compassion and believe in the privacy of other. I don't live their life, so why should I be in the middle of it.

Abortion - I'm pro choice, again I probably go against what the Bible says, but again, I don't live that woman's life that wants to make a choice on what she does or does not what to do.

Stem Cell Research - All for it. God gave us brains to use and if it saves a life or cures cancer or any other condition or disease...again all for it.

War - there is war in the Bible. I'm very against war.

Originally posted by Buckeye_Fan:
I still don't get the whole "choosing what parts I like".

See above.

Originally posted by Buckeye_Fan:
You assume that I disregard the Bible, quite the opposite actually.

Originally posted by Buckeye_Fan:
So, I have read the OT and the NT, I don't regard any of it.

Something does not compute.

Oops...so sorry that's suppose to say I don't disregard any of it.

08/05/2008 11:10:48 AM · #312

Originally posted by Buckeye_Fan:

that's suppose to say I don't disregard any of it.

Fair enough, but you also claim that some parts are no longer applicable, so you MUST disregard some of it (as evidenced by your stance on several key issues).

08/05/2008 11:12:15 AM · #313

Originally posted by Buckeye_Fan:

And what would be the purpose of reading it from cover to cover?

If I thought that the creator of the universe wrote a book, I would definitely want to read all of it. Especially if I thought I ended up either in heaven or in hell for eternity depending on how well I've followed the commandments in the book.

I have the impression that you simply create your own faith (using elements from Christianity, this is where the "cherry picking" part comes in) according to your own wishes and hopes. Reading the whole Bible carefully would mess with that, it would be confusing and raise questions.

08/05/2008 11:16:10 AM · #314

As far as abortion, gay marriage, etc etc...I think I know what the Bible says. I accept that it is there but I have been given a choice. But because I choose to have the feeling that may or may not be in accordance with what God has spoken, that doesn't mean I disregard what he has said. I accept what he intended. But God has given me a brain to think with and again, I would ask, "why have you done what you have?" I believe God is compassionate, loving, and forgiving. And that is certainly how I try to live my life.

Canon EF 17-40mm f/4.0L USM

08/05/2008 11:18:57 AM · #315

Originally posted by Sam94720:

Originally posted by Buckeye_Fan:
And what would be the purpose of reading it from cover to cover?

If I thought that the creator of the universe wrote a book, I would definitely want to read all of it. Especially if I thought I ended up either in heaven or in hell for eternity depending on how well I've followed the commandments in the book.

I have the impression that you simply create your own faith (using elements from Christianity, this is where the "cherry picking" part comes in) according to your own wishes and hopes. Reading the whole Bible carefully would mess with that, it would be confusing and raise questions.

BINGO!!!! Raises questions!!! I have a TON of them. My faith in God isn't like your's. Don't we all create our own faith and relationship with God?

dahkota

Canon EOS-7D

08/05/2008 11:21:43 AM · #316

Originally posted by Buckeye_Fan:

You are speaking about Christian radicals. Whom, IMHO, uses God as an excuse but personally I don't think they know half the time what they are talking about. Because they don't what God's true intentions are.

For me at least, herein lies the problem. Even within Christian denominations, there is an us/them mentality. Each different group assumes that they have it right and everyone else has it wrong. Maybe those Christian radicals you speak of are right and those are God's true intentions. Maybe not. There is no way to know.

And that gets back to the point of this thread.
The Bible is not an adequate tool to interpret God's words. Oh wait, that's my idea. But its close to the original point...

I am reminded of the dinner guest who, when asked what they like to eat says, "Oh, everything!" And replies to specific foods, "Except that...And that...And that...And that..."

Spork99

OM System OM-1

Canon EF 100mm f/2.8 USM Macro

08/05/2008 11:22:14 AM · #317

Originally posted by Buckeye_Fan:

You think you know or you know? If I believed my eternal salvation of damnation hung in the balance, I'd be damn sure to know.

08/05/2008 11:23:54 AM · #318

Originally posted by scalvert:

Originally posted by Buckeye_Fan:
that's suppose to say I don't disregard any of it.

Fair enough, but you also claim that some parts are no longer applicable, so you MUST disregard some of it (as evidenced by your stance on several key issues).

He brought up 4 issues and I commented on them. And no where did I say that "some parts are no longer applicable". I accept what has been written. But I also have questions....lots and lots and lots and lots of them. I may not agree on some things but doesn't mean I disregard them.

08/05/2008 11:28:06 AM · #319

Originally posted by Spazmo99:

Originally posted by Buckeye_Fan:
As far as abortion, gay marriage, etc etc...I think I know what the Bible says. I accept that it is there but I have been given a choice. But because I choose to have the feeling that may or may not be in accordance with what God has spoken, that doesn't mean I disregard what he has said. I accept what he intended. But God has given me a brain to think with and again, I would ask, "why have you done what you have?" I believe God is compassionate, loving, and forgiving. And that is certainly how I try to live my life.

You think you know or you know? If I believed my eternal salvation of damnation hung in the balance, I'd be damn sure to know.

But again, do we truly know what God's intentions were? I think I know, I won't really know until I ask God.

08/05/2008 11:28:16 AM · #320

Originally posted by Buckeye_Fan:

My faith in God isn't like your's. Don't we all create our own faith and relationship with God?

Exactly. Everyone believes what they want to believe. They generally start with whatever their parents taught them as "true" and then modify that belief to fit their own ideas of "what should be." The only way that changes is if they discover "what should be" doesn't fit what's "true"... and it takes a whole lotta cherry picking for a compassionate person to reconcile "what should be" with what the Bible commands.

Nikon AF Nikkor 85mm f/1.8D

08/05/2008 11:32:01 AM · #321

Originally posted by Buckeye_Fan:

do we truly know what God's intentions were? I think I know, I won't really know until I ask God.

Then it's too late. "Oh, you mean I WAS supposed to obey the Sabbath or be put to death? My bad!"

Louis

Nikon D800

08/05/2008 11:32:11 AM · #322

This:

Originally posted by farfel53:

I don't disregard any of it, Sam.

Directly contradicts this:

Originally posted by farfel53:

It wasn't given to command us to not eat pork, or to dress in a certain way, or to participate in the temple ordinances.

I think you'll find millions of people alive today who indeed believe that it was, in fact, given to humanity to avoid eating pork, to dress a certain way, and to participate in temple ordinances.

You have therefore, by necessity of the articles of your particular faith, disregarded huge tracts of the bible in order to practice in a way that is cogent with your lifestyle.

08/05/2008 11:36:11 AM · #323

Originally posted by scalvert:

Originally posted by Buckeye_Fan:
My faith in God isn't like your's. Don't we all create our own faith and relationship with God?

Exactly. Everyone believes what they want to believe. They generally start with whatever their parents taught them as "true" and then modify that belief to fit their own ideas of "what should be." The only way that changes is if they discover "what should be" doesn't fit what's "true"... and it takes a whole lotta cherry picking for a compassionate person to reconcile "what should be" with what the Bible commands.

And again, I won't have any answers until I ask God. I don't ever claim to know what God intended. I have a somewhat idea but that's what my belief is. Yes we are taught by our parent, clergy, Sunday school teachers about God, Jesus, Heaven, Hell but until we die, IMHO, that's when I hope I will find out the truth and answers to all my questions. To me the Bible is proof that God is real. With all the good, the bad and the ugly that is in it, I still relie on it to be part of the foundation of my faith. Especially with the death of my Father, it pulled me through my darkest darkest time. Even now with my Mother being ill with her heart, even though I am physically alone, God is in my heart, helping me to be strong.