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07/16/2008 04:45:56 PM · #176 |
I think if you have a large home, a shotgun is the best choice. But if you have a small house with tight hallways, and lots of corners. Then I personally would feel better with a handgun.
The reason being that a long barrel makes for a much more easily dis-armed opponent in closed quarters. It's why a Scottish Claymore is NOT a good naval sword.
***
"To actually shoot to kill? Waugh!"
Or risk my darling one year old daughter being killed. No question. Bad guy dies!
Also, realize that most criminals are cowards (not all, some are trained and hardened killers). But most will quickly flee when the tables are turned not in their favor.
***
"I was strictly taught by my Dad from a young age to never point a gun of any kind, toy or real, at anything you don't want to kill."
Good lesson...
"For me, the problem with toy guns is the attitude that it's only a toy, so no discipline is needed, but that lack of discipline/respect can carry over to the real gun."
Agreed, hence while I support toy guns. I believe they should not be used as a toy (at least not realistic ones). Supersoakers and such oddities are an exception. If any police officer shoots a kid with a super-soaker; then I think they should be charged with negligent manslaughter.
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07/16/2008 04:52:21 PM · #177 |
Shoot to kill?
Definitely. If you are in a situation where you need to shoot, it is obviously "tense." There is an increased likelihood that you are going to miss.
If you try to aim carefully, there is the possiblity you will take too long and your weapon will be used against you.
Also, if you choose to use a gun as self-defense, you have to be prepared, mentally, that you might kill someone. If that is not something you can live with, find another means of self-defense. |
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07/16/2008 05:01:20 PM · #178 |
Originally posted by pixelpig:
I'm wondering which you think is better for home defense & why--a shotgun or a handgun?
And are there really that many people out there armed & prepared to use lethal force in defense of their home? To actually shoot to kill? Waugh! To be effective with a weapon requires constant practice & to be effective with a weapon against an armed & excited opponent who is trying to kill you back requires constant practice under pressure. Not everyone is good at this. It's a nice fantasy, though.
The right dog would be more effective, defensively, IMHO.
I grew up with guns. The biggest animal I've killed is a deer & I only fatally wounded it w/my first shot. I had to track it down & kill it again. I didn't like that much. Even more, I didn't like dragging it back to the truck. It was too much work. I was strictly taught by my Dad from a young age to never point a gun of any kind, toy or real, at anything you don't want to kill. For me, the problem with toy guns is the attitude that it's only a toy, so no discipline is needed, but that lack of discipline/respect can carry over to the real gun. The police have to treat all guns as though they were real--civilians should, too. |
I'd certainly not kill in defense of my home itself. In defense of my family, definitely. In most cases, the criminals are NOT looking for a shootout, they're looking for an easy mark. If armed, their intention is usually to intimidate in order to gain what they want. Unfortunately their plans sometimes go awry and people die. I'm prepared to make sure that my family is not among the dead. In the case where my apartment was broken into, once they realized that I was armed and that I was not the easy mark they were looking for, they left in a hurry. Of course, if they had come into my bedroom, I would have killed them and that couple might still be alive.
No offense to dog lovers, but dogs are a LOT of work and expense. |
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07/16/2008 05:32:14 PM · #179 |
| Well, thanks for all the advice, my home is now safe! I have wired several electric motors to Flash bangs around the house and connected them to a Clapper. So now if someone breaks in all I need to do is clap and they will be flooded with light and sound. Non-lethal too! |
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07/16/2008 06:57:56 PM · #180 |
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07/16/2008 07:06:25 PM · #181 |
Originally posted by togtog:
Well, thanks for all the advice, my home is now safe! I have wired several electric motors to Flash bangs around the house and connected them to a Clapper. So now if someone breaks in all I need to do is clap and they will be flooded with light and sound. Non-lethal too! |
And once all your flash bangs are done with, they'll lose interest in criminal activity and be more concerned with getting home to change their underpants. |
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07/16/2008 07:20:53 PM · #182 |
| If I was a criminal, I'd get a real gun that looks like a supersoaker. |
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07/16/2008 11:15:19 PM · #183 |
Originally posted by Art Roflmao:
If I was a criminal, I'd get a real gun that looks like a supersoaker. |
I'd always figured the easiest way to assassinate someone would be to convert a camera and lens. Press the button. *BANG* (But don't forget to use mirror-lock-up first.) ;-)
As for dogs...well, for a while in my old city. Dogs, especially those famed as guard dogs (Rotts, Dobers, Pitbulls, etc) were one of the top items stolen from homes. Especially puppies! |
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07/17/2008 02:58:36 AM · #184 |
Many years ago I was sat near a road with a shotgun,waiting for the rabbits sticking their heads out of a collasped drain.I had already shot 2 and been there for an hour or more when a police van pulled up and a lone policeman warily enquired if the gun was loaded.When I said it was,he nervously asked me to empty it and then place it on the ground.I did so and he then ordered me over to the fence.I still complied,even asking if he would like me to climb over the fence which I then did.I was then rugby tackled to the ground and several more policemen jumped out the rear of the van and I was handcuffed and "thrown" in the van.A policemen retrieved the gun from the field and off we went to the station.A phonecall later,the farmer who's land I'd been on,and also owned the gun arrived at the station.He explained to the police I had permission to be there on his land,that the only reason he was absent from the field where I'd been sat was due to his needing the toilet.I was allowed to go,without charges but I did feel slightly miffed that the police would treat a 14yr old in such a fashion.With society as it is now,I would have felt glad I was still alive were the same to happen.
There is a world of difference between toy guns and replicas.The problem comes when the toy gun makers start producing ever closer copies of firearms.There are reports of people being shot for "brandishing a weapon" that turned out to be a phone/stick,etc although I dont know if these reports are true or just the fevered imaginations of the media.I also seem to recall that residents of Northern Ireland were not allowed toy/imitation/replica firearms of any sort. |
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07/17/2008 08:14:44 AM · #185 |
Years ago when most youngsters played at Cowboys and Indians, guns were far less realistic. Nowadays toy or replica guns can be very hard to distinguish from the real thing. Thats why every police force will send an armed response team, to any reports of firearms being shown, especially in public areas. That armed officer may then have a split second decision to make. He/she makes the right decision, and they are heroes, make the wrong decision, then it could well lead to a court appearance.
Would you like the job of a armed response team officer. But then again, perhaps we should arm all our police officers, and be like many other countries!.
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07/17/2008 11:20:05 AM · #186 |
"Years ago when most youngsters played at Cowboys and Indians, guns were far less realistic. Nowadays toy or replica guns can be very hard to distinguish from the real thing"
This is just fud the anti-gun lobby likes to put out. Sorry, but the realistic nature of toy cap guns was quite accurate way back when. At least from any distance. I'd say they were more so than most of the ones today (which are usually painted in bright colors)
Some antique toy guns
"Thats why every police force will send an armed response team, to any reports of firearms being shown, especially in public areas."
Unless you live in the ghetto. Then you're lucky if they'll even show up if you call in an actual shooting. |
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07/17/2008 12:59:27 PM · #187 |
The toy guns we had when I was a kid (1960âs) were very real looking. Well, except for my brotherâs âMan from Uncleâ pistol/radio. It was pretty goofy looking.
Hereâs a little story to illustrate the difference in attitudes between then and now:
I grew up in a suburb of Los Angeles called La Puente. It was a typical bedroom community with housing tracks scattered among open fields and hills. My friends and I played Army and Cowboys & Indians up in the hills and in the fields around our neighborhood. We all had lots of real looking toy guns. We had squirt guns, cap guns, dart guns, BB guns, pellet guns, and some that made noises. My father had been in the Navy during WW2, and he had brought home a Japanese Army rifle as a souvenir. I donât remember what caliber it was, but it was a bolt-action rifle with a wooden stock. Nobody made ammo for it, so it was useless as a weapon. My father let me keep it in my room. It hung on the wall in a rifle rack, along with an old Japanese Army sword and my bow. One day my friends and I decided to take it out and use it to play Army. We walked 3-4 miles through the neighborhood to some hills and fields that was our favorite playground. As usual, we had a great time playing shoot âem up all day long. As we were walking through the neighborhood on the way home, we saw a police car cruising down the street towards us. When they saw us, they stopped and asked us to come over. The two cops asked me politely if they could see the rifle. I had been marching down the street with the rifle at right shoulder arms, so I did my best port arms, opened the bolt and proudly handed the rifle to the nearest officer. He carefully inspected the rifle with a big smile on his face. He asked me how I had come to be in possession of the rifle, so I told him all about it. Then he handed it back to me and said, âItâs a nice rifle. Your dad would probably get mad if you damaged it, wouldnât he? Maybe you should take it home.â I told him that we were on the way home, and besides, my dad didnât mind me playing with it and I would never break it. He said, âOkay. You kids stay out of trouble. Bye now.â Then they drove away and we continued on home.
Unfortunately, I doubt that a similar situation would unfold as peacefully in todayâs society.
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07/17/2008 09:41:00 PM · #188 |
As for banning toy guns, absolutely not. Completely ridiculous.
And as for violence on Tv etc... affecting children, my point always has been, anyone who has the in0built capacity to become violent will do so anyway regardless of whether he was able to see violence be commited on TV or not. The same applies to video games. It's all about the personality involved. I enjoy first-person shooter, and the gory-er the better, but I am a total pacifist unless in defense of myself, so I could watch all the violence in the world and commit virtual violence til the cows come home and never become a violent psychopath. It's simply not in my nature. And that's where it comes from. You don't magically decide it'd be enjoyable to pull somone's entrails out through their throat because you were able to do it virtually in Manhunt 2 (not factual) you have be of the disposition towards it. Obviously the more violence the violent people see, the more twisted ideas they get, but that's simply addressing the limits of their imagination.
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07/17/2008 09:51:50 PM · #189 |
Originally posted by trevytrev:
[quote=GeneralE] [quote=trevytrev]If I were buying a semi-auto handgun though, I would go with a .40 over a 9mm, jmo. |
I know I'm late but I've found that a S&W 9mm has met my extensive needs with never a jam. But..... Bringing a gun into the equation is a very dangerous step. It's no way like what you see on TV or in the movies. (Except maybe the new rambo or Saving Private Ryan)There's no way to rehearse so you don't know what you'll do until...and it'll probably never happen again. (the odds are against you being in an in home shoot-out are almost nill to begin with)
Karmat makes the most sense... Most aren't ready for the mental part of shooting someone dead. It's the idea that there may be a gun toteing owner that's supposed to be the deterrent. Once someone has decided to enter your house that deterrent is gone. You're better off to escape and call the authorities.
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07/18/2008 12:03:00 AM · #190 |
Originally posted by neophyte:
You're better off to escape and call the authorities. |
How exactly do you escape from a 2nd or 3rd story with small children before the bad guy comes looking for you? Or, how about an apartment in a high rise on say the 40th floor that only has one door? I'd say you'd have 1-2 minutes tops from the time they entered. |
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07/18/2008 10:47:07 AM · #191 |
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
Originally posted by neophyte:
You're better off to escape and call the authorities. |
How exactly do you escape from a 2nd or 3rd story with small children before the bad guy comes looking for you? Or, how about an apartment in a high rise on say the 40th floor that only has one door? I'd say you'd have 1-2 minutes tops from the time they entered. |
The situation you describe all but never happens. Have you heard of a home robberry on the 40th floor? I haven't. Most home invasions are in houses. Your speculation is is just that. I don't see the need to prepare for something that most likely will never occur.
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07/18/2008 11:09:29 AM · #192 |
Originally posted by neophyte:
I don't see the need to prepare for something that most likely will never occur. |
Public schools tornado/fire drills. (bomb drills during the cold war)
Carry a first aid kit in your car? your home?
wear your seatbelt?
Have smoke alarms in your home? or even a burglar alarm? (my burglar alarm is made by Mossberg and makes a really cool noise when you pump it)
We could go on and on here. there are TONS of situations that people prepare for HOPING that they never happen. |
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07/18/2008 11:16:41 AM · #193 |
Originally posted by neophyte:
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
Originally posted by neophyte:
You're better off to escape and call the authorities. |
How exactly do you escape from a 2nd or 3rd story with small children before the bad guy comes looking for you? Or, how about an apartment in a high rise on say the 40th floor that only has one door? I'd say you'd have 1-2 minutes tops from the time they entered. |
The situation you describe all but never happens. Have you heard of a home robberry on the 40th floor? I haven't. Most home invasions are in houses. Your speculation is is just that. I don't see the need to prepare for something that most likely will never occur. |
I truly confused. Are you saying that most home invasions happen in "houses," and that apartments in high-rises are broken into less?
Our house is two stories, with the main living quarters, etc. on top. There are three rooms that if I got trapped in, and had to escape, I would have to somehow get down two stories with a 6 yo and a 3 yo. There exists a very real, and unfortunate, scenario where I cannot "escape and call the authorities," so I will need to defend myself somehow -- whether by gun, knife or big stick.
Or perhaps, I can convince them to sit down and discuss it with me and we can come to a peaceful solution. (Which has actually been suggested to me before, not here.) |
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07/18/2008 11:17:02 AM · #194 |
sorry, double post hiccup
Message edited by author 2008-07-18 11:17:23. |
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07/18/2008 11:28:39 AM · #195 |
There have been a number of home invasions during day time around here, 5-6 teens with various weapons, some had shotguns, and they spread out room to room killing or beating anyone they find, including kids and pets. There is only about 5 seconds once inside to get to whatever defense you have, it honestly takes longer to open a window and jump out than 5 seconds and even if you do, what about the rest of your family you just left behind, every man for themselves eh?
It isn't a likely event at all, however there is no chance to freeze time and decide to buy a gun or other defense after the fact. Either you prepare as best as possible before the fact and hope and pray it never happens, or risk paying the ultimate price afterwards.
Message edited by author 2008-07-18 11:29:15. |
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07/18/2008 11:38:24 AM · #196 |
Originally posted by neophyte:
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
Originally posted by neophyte:
You're better off to escape and call the authorities. |
How exactly do you escape from a 2nd or 3rd story with small children before the bad guy comes looking for you? Or, how about an apartment in a high rise on say the 40th floor that only has one door? I'd say you'd have 1-2 minutes tops from the time they entered. |
The situation you describe all but never happens. Have you heard of a home robberry on the 40th floor? I haven't. Most home invasions are in houses. Your speculation is is just that. I don't see the need to prepare for something that most likely will never occur. |
Are you serious? You believe that home invasions are restricted to houses? Apartments don't get broken into? That's complete and utter BS.
I've been in an apartment that was broken into while I was there. The criminals were armed. Fortunately, once I got into my bedroom, so was I. Once they realized the situation was likely to end in a close quarters gunfight, they left, just as quick as they came. The same creeps beat and killed their next victims over the course of a few hours. |
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07/18/2008 11:47:11 AM · #197 |
Originally posted by karmat:
I truly confused. Are you saying that most home invasions happen in "houses," and that apartments in high-rises are broken into less?
Or perhaps, I can convince them to sit down and discuss it with me and we can come to a peaceful solution. (Which has actually been suggested to me before, not here.) |
This is plain silly. I can't imagine a peaceful solution to this circumstance.
Yes, Burglaries and home invasions are two different things. The first assumes no one is home or never realizes the robbery till after the fact. Apartments have the higher possibility of witnesses and usually fewer valuables. Sorry for the confusion, what I'm trying to say is that the cops should be most people's first choice if they discover someone in their house. I am quite proficient in self-defense physically and with firearms and weapons. I keep a Louisville slugger by the bed but would always try to call for help first.
I the end why not keep cell phone near your bed as well as your weapon of choice. And when possible, leave the shooting to the pros......
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07/18/2008 12:02:03 PM · #198 |
Hey neophyte click here and choose a state you will see many many people who had no other choice but to defend themselves. Yes flight may be the best option most of the time but there are many times it is not an option and bringing a Baseball bat to a gun fight is a real dumb idea.
Message edited by author 2008-07-18 12:05:57. |
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07/18/2008 12:03:36 PM · #199 |
Same here as Karmat, I live in a two story frame house, all bedrooms are on the second floor. I have a rope ladder for escaping in the event of a fire but it is a bit dangerous to use and not a quick exit with my wife and child, especially if someone is in the house and hell bent on attacking us. The odds are that nothing will ever happen, but I'm not going to be the guy that doesn't have a way to defend his family in the event that it does.
 neophyte, I'm sure you have have insurance of different sorts, auto, home owners or renters insurance for fire, earthquake, flood and you probably have medical insurance as well. Odds are you won't have to use your insurance, but you still have it just in case, same thing. My gun is sort of a life insurance for me and my family, I'll probably never have to use it but I have it just in case. |
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07/18/2008 12:25:51 PM · #200 |
Originally posted by thegrandwazoo:
Hey neophyte click here and choose a state you will see many many people who had no other choice but to defend themselves. Yes flight may be the best option most of the time but there are many times it is not an option and bringing a Baseball bat to a gun fight is a real dumb idea. |
The NRA? No agenda there.(find me a cnn article at least)....I never said I was against guns. I have owned many firearms and am quite proficient. But those who have small children should keep them well guarded and how quickly can you obtain the gun, take off the lock, find the bullets and be ready for action? Now do all this without the perp hearing you...what's dumb is the concept that there's going to be a shoot out in your apartment. Itâs statistically highly unlikely. I've lived in some of the worst neighborhoods in some of the worst apartment buildings and never have been victimized or had it happen in the buildings I lived in.
I'm not criticizing anyone's choice. I personally would shoot first and ask questions later but it'll most likely never happen.... I'm just saying its not like television. And My Louisville Slugger has settled all of my discrepancies to dateâ¦Reality isâ¦..
Message edited by author 2008-07-18 12:26:47.
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