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07/07/2008 12:09:08 AM · #1 |
Yes I know... old topic. But this time it's personal!!! ;)
First let me confess, I am a stickler for meeting a challenge. It's the whole point of this site after all. But that is a discussion for another thread.
However... (and there is always a however) I feel that there is some conflict between a shoehorn entry and a creative interpretation. Photography, at its core, is a creative art. Taking that creative thought into the interpretation of a challenge should be rewarded more than punished. There are many fine examples of what I am saying, but for lack of time searching, allow me to use my two most recent entries to make my case.
For the seven deadly sins, I scored abysmally.
Granted most of the poor scoring was due to the image not appealing to many people. Perhaps a bit flat, perhaps no sharp vibrant pop, but based on a comment and several '1' I think some people dinged it as a shoehorn (or a flat out DNMC). Perhaps anthropomorphism isn't considered a proper tactic despite it dating back to the ancient Egyptians and likely earlier. Perhaps panthers aren't considered a symbol of anger (tell that to Huey Newton). Regardless, not only is this not a shoehorn, but frankly, it's not even that creative of an interpretation.
But on to the one that truely motivated this thread...
So the challenge is to present a photograph that symbolizes the 'green' concept. Sure I could go out and take a photo of some recycled cans or new uses for old products. Not to creative, INHO, since the details suggest that. So I though about various campaigns used to promote the green concept and the one common theme I found was 'Save the World for our Children'. That was the motivation behind my submission. It is not a novel idea... in fact, many will argue that it is overdone. Yet in this submission most of my comments were shoehorn related. I guess the shirt didn't help tie into the theme.
So to end this endless rambling (hmmm, that doesn't make sense)... anyway,
Please, when scoring photographs and determining how or if they relate to the theme, consider that creativity may (and I would argue - should) be used in interpreting the challenge, not just in taking the photograph.
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07/07/2008 12:14:05 AM · #2 |
| an uphill battle on your hands... |
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07/07/2008 12:24:21 AM · #3 |
| you are allow to be as creative as you want to, just don't expect to be rewarded for it. Either accept it and do as you please or conform to popular opinion and stay in the box. |
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07/07/2008 12:24:59 AM · #4 |
Don't give up, or give in.
This is DPC, a community of people that want to see WOW, and don't care what your image means.
I recently shoehorned, and I knew I was going to get hit, but the image is sound, and is currently in a juried competition.
What do you care as long as you like the image, and you have learned something.
Move on.
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07/07/2008 12:38:50 AM · #5 |
Ok I will bite since I know my comments may be one of the things your complaining about.
Lets take the first shot "Primal Wrath", when has it become a deadly "SIN" for a predator to hunt his prey? However I liked the processing.
And the second shot "Heir to our Policies", totally dependent on the title. But once again I like the photograph but found it to be a stretch.
See this is why a lot of people have stopped commenting, or slowed down in commenting, or just gives a person a thumbs-up comment to appease the photographer such as nice shot. If the commenter tells the truth as he/she sees it they will be criticized.
Right before I read this I had a PM from a photograph stating the following.
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DPChallenge user XXXXXXXXXXX has sent you the following private message:
If you've been here for 4 yrs as your profile states, you must know that calling
somebody's challenge entry a 'snap-shot' is the worst possible comment - thanks
and brightest blessings.
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To reply to this message, click the following link:
//www.dpchallenge.com/message.php?USER_ID=XXXXX
Do not reply to this e-mail -- this is not XXXXXXXXXX e-mail address.
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As you can see the commenter cannot win for trying. People wants us to comment but when its not what they want to here we either don't know what we are talkinig about or lack experiance, etc.
To be truethful, I have come close to saying I'm going to stop commenting, why? Because I'm not going to give out that-a-boys when I comment, I'm going to tell you how I feel. I maybe wrong sometimes but for the most part I'm pretty close with my comment. And by the way all three pictures received an good score from me. But I guess that don't matter
Scott
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07/07/2008 12:45:11 AM · #6 |
I think the distinction of whether it is a shoehorn or a creative interpretation depends on whether you are the photographer of the viewer. (Kind of similar to my definition of the difference between a reason and an excuse: It depends on if you are the one offering it or receiving it.)
My own recent submission for the "virtues" challenge got slammed with low DNMC votes. Even though I felt it fit the challenge better than many of the staged shots, a lot of voters did not see how it related. Some did. |
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07/07/2008 12:49:49 AM · #7 |
Scott,
I am actually glad that you did comment. For every person that leaves a comment there are likely dozens more thinking the same thing. My complaints (or better state - comments on voting trends) are aimed to what people think, not what they write.
Regarding your specific comment, had it not been for what you said, I would have gone away thinking my photo totally sucked. Because of your comment, I realized that it only partially sucked. The rest was due to people thinking it was a shoehorn. ;)
People may and will disagree with what anyone says. Some of us with less tact will disagree in a public forum. But even if we disagree, it is important to know what we are disagreeing with. Please don't let my ramblings (or anyone else) stifle your commenting. |
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07/07/2008 01:03:39 AM · #8 |
And I thank you for understanding my comment from my point of view. I try to be as accurate as possible but we all know that everyone sees a photograph in different ways. I'm just glad you understand my point and I certainly understand yours.
ETA: you photos did NOT suck, both were good IMO.
Message edited by author 2008-07-07 01:04:47. |
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07/07/2008 01:10:17 AM · #9 |
| Always keep in mind that a mediocre image on this site is a good one elsewhere and will have your friends and relatives saying what a good photographer you are. |
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07/07/2008 01:32:23 AM · #10 |
Originally posted by Trinch:
But on to the one that truely motivated this thread...
Please, when scoring photographs and determining how or if they relate to the theme, consider that creativity may (and I would argue - should) be used in interpreting the challenge, not just in taking the photograph. |
Your take is you were being creative, I saw it as a poor attempt at being creative. It's too much of a stretch on the challenge topic. You want to be creative, go ahead, but don't then complain because others don't appreciate your creativity.
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07/07/2008 02:29:18 AM · #11 |
Your concept was a good fit for the challenge. Unfortunately, you didn't quite pull it off, IMO. I can buy the "Heir" part with the baby and the green color puts me in an eco mindset but you completely punted on communicating the "our policies" part and left that to your title to fill in. Had I voted and read that title it would have put me on a path to handing out a lower score than had you chosen a more apt title.
Message edited by author 2008-07-07 02:34:28.
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07/07/2008 02:35:54 AM · #12 |
Not to step on any toes...but this doesn't really scream humility to me...and it got a red.
is this any more of a shoehorn than my green entry?
No, of course not. My entry contains both a dummy (which is part of the title) and a recycle bin...but I am slammed for 'shoehorning'.
The only difference is that my photo is crap. Which I can admit too. I deserved my ranking...I should have taken a better photo...but I don't see how you can rate a picture of somebody washing their hands as HUMILITY and then turn around as say I am shoehorning when my title fits my photo perfectly..I have both a recycling bin and a dummy.
Message edited by author 2008-07-07 02:42:03.
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07/07/2008 04:12:52 AM · #13 |
The problem is ALWAYS interpretation, and how you convey it.
Some days you'll hit the mark, others you won't.
Just being honest, neither of your images spoke the challenge to me at all.
I've been here about two years, have entered about 100 challenges, wandered all over the forums, and STILL feel like I haven't a clue as to what the voters want.
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07/07/2008 05:39:47 AM · #14 |
Considering the winner of the 'sins' challenge was a pretty little girl with all the naughty bits covered up that could at best be considered to be in frank contradiction of its title, I am reminded of a friend who came from an area of the UK that suffered a lot from the industrial wind-down of the 70s and 80s, who said after hearing on the radio that there were 450 people unemployed in Oslo, "They don't even know they've been born". You may well need to think about that with regard to the voters of dpc.
Mind you, I tend to think something like that about people who say that photography is a 'creative art', so there you go.
You can give up, carry on or all sorts of other things. You decide. |
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