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07/04/2008 12:13:23 AM · #26 |
| What was in those cigs man? |
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07/04/2008 12:13:40 AM · #27 |
| And where can I get some? |
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07/04/2008 12:16:51 AM · #28 |
| Well Spengler, I think it must have been a paranormal Ectoplasm slicked on the desk. Seriously though, did you feel a cold draft? |
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07/04/2008 12:18:52 AM · #29 |
| I think it has something to do with binding effects in photon-nucleus scattering in the Ä++-resonance region. Just a thought. |
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07/04/2008 12:29:15 AM · #30 |
Just say no to drugs and alcohol.
Message edited by author 2008-07-04 01:54:49. |
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07/04/2008 12:33:01 AM · #31 |
The voices in my head...say the OP is crazy.
I believe them...
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07/04/2008 12:33:33 AM · #32 |
| It's almost been an hour since Tim, 'buzzrock' commented. Wonder what happened? |
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07/04/2008 12:44:33 AM · #33 |
This is weird. I just came home from a birthday celebration for a friend whose other friends I really only know from these annual events, and on the way decided to ask one of them more about an experience she had mentioned at a previous one, involving a ouija board - or more specifically if that had changed her view of things. She said not. She had no interest in looking for these things, but did accept that there was stuff she didn't understand. She instanced her cat who had always gone outside to do her thing in the dirt, but when they built a greenhouse it was totally stymied because here was a house with dirt inside it. Which proves nothing except that my informant had evidently thought a lot about how to countenance the inexplicable.
And like her, I have no interest in looking for these things, but on the other hand no wish to deny them out of hand. I had a great grandmother who was psychic, I am told, and would hop on a bus or train to travel hundreds of miles because she thought So and So needed her, and it always turned out they did. This is not so strange really because we often get an urge to call or write someone and it turns out to be timely.
Sometimes I think it is more remarkable when things stay on your desk where you put them. |
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07/04/2008 12:47:02 AM · #34 |
Originally posted by Louis:
Originally posted by togtog:
Well I think really anything is possible since we as a species is so new to self-awareness there is no way we can have a clue about what is going on most of the time. |
How are we new to self-awareness? |
My facts are broken up to forgive me if I ramble a bit. And while I probably could find references on google for what I will claim I am unwilling to do so, so you are welcome to disregard anything I say now if that is a requirement. :)
I believe if I remember correctly scientists claim children before the age of 3 are not self aware. They test this using mirrors and how a baby relates to its own reflection. Before that age the child will believe it is another child or ignore it entirely, afterward they will notice their reflection match their movements thereby understanding the person they see is them, or they think it is some type of puppet only they can control, science isn't perfect I admit...
Anyway again if I remember correctly they related the average 3yo to a chimp as for self awareness with chimps being the only primates besides humans, and the only species besides humans to grasp the mirror and do the same thing.
So lets say it is something that started with chimps, just to be fair. Actually, lets just go back to where scientists believe primates came into existence. This would be about 85 million years ago.
The math below might be completely wrong, I suck at numbers.
The known universe is currently dated at 13 billion years.
The believed age of the earth is 4.5 billion years. So for all the time earth has existed, it has only existed for half of the age of the universe. This means that at the gross best estimate the life on earth has only be exposed to half of all possible events and conditions that may exist along the road through the universe.
However life hasn't existed all of those 4.5 billion years. It has existed less than 200 million years. Or about half a percent of existence so far, and that is assuming the dinosaurs were self-aware.
So, the universe has existed a long long time, life on earth, not so long.
This is my basic for claiming we are infants.
Of that, of even 100,000 years that modern primates are believe to have existed, how long have we had scientific study of the earth and universe? 8000?
We are still sucking the cosmic breast honestly.
Originally posted by Louis:
Even if this is true -- and it's quite a claim to make, given the impossibility of producing evidence for it -- how does newness to being self-aware translate to complete ignorance of everything? |
I don't believe I said we were, completely ignorant of everything. Just that our existence has been so short and our scientific study so much shorter, that we cannot possibly claim we have all the answers or even a majority of them.
Originally posted by Louis:
Isn't a more reasonable explanation than ghosts, aliens, or whatever, that buzzrock didn't really see what he think he saw? That he was tired, predisposed to believing in the paranormal, or something even more banal? |
That is entirely possible and I was not trying to say such was not the case, rather that there really is no way to know what happened, he obviously has no proof it happened or he would provide it, at the same time none of us witnessed it not happening.
Originally posted by Louis:
If anyone with claims of experiences with the supernatural were 100% honest, I suspect you'll find very little actual evidence for anything paranormal in those circumstances -- which, by the way, is exactly the state of affairs with paranormal claims generally. |
I have seen a ghost before, an old lady wearing a pale blue dress, she walked from the bathroom briefly glancing at me before going out the back door. I was seven years old. I have been since diagnosed as not completely stable upstairs and my chances of seeing things that aren't real are higher than average.
So, am I nuts, did I see a ghost, was I dreaming? Who can say, I certainly cannot, the last person someone should trust is themselves, it is self justifying. I know I saw a woman as stated above, why I'll probably never know and I've really stopped caring. :)
Sorry for going into classic togtog rant and ramble mode. I now return you to your regularly scheduled programming. |
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07/04/2008 01:01:19 AM · #35 |
Originally posted by danderson107:
I once had a pop can slide about 2 feet across a table. Don't know what to tell you. |
Me too. Although, I was in a motorhome.
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07/04/2008 01:07:31 AM · #36 |
Originally posted by togtog:
The believed age of the earth is 4.5 billion years. So for all the time earth has existed, it has only existed for half of the age of the universe. |
If you believe differently....also...we could , religiously speaking, only have a universe that was recently created and we have been around for everday but the first couple.
:D
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07/04/2008 01:11:14 AM · #37 |
Originally posted by egamble:
Originally posted by togtog:
The believed age of the earth is 4.5 billion years. So for all the time earth has existed, it has only existed for half of the age of the universe. |
If you believe differently....also...we could , religiously speaking, only have a universe that was recently created and we have been around for everday but the first couple.
:D |
Hehehehe indeed, but in that case then, did God or the Devil move the objects? Hmm... |
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07/04/2008 01:13:55 AM · #38 |
| could you have bumped the underneath of the table with your knee and caused the stuff to slide.. i do it all the time.. |
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07/04/2008 09:30:47 AM · #39 |
Originally posted by togtog:
[quote=togtog] I believe if I remember correctly scientists claim children before the age of 3 are not self aware. They test this using mirrors and how a baby relates to its own reflection. Before that age the child will believe it is another child or ignore it entirely, afterward they will notice their reflection match their movements thereby understanding the person they see is them, or they think it is some type of puppet only they can control, science isn't perfect I admit...
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I must disagree. My daughter was saying 'Me me' at eight months of age while looking in a mirror and pointing at the mirror and back at herself. She could talk in small sentences at one. And my cat Mushy when he cleans himself he is only cleaning the puppet? He has a hard time letting the Vet stick a thermometer up his butt. I suppose he's thinking. 'That damn Vet is going for the puppet butt again?' :)
No, I think most animals are self aware. We just can't talk to them in a verbal language and are unwilling to accept what they are telling us right before our eyes. Maybe just my opinion.
Whatever happened to Tim,(buzzrock). Hope he's alright. |
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07/04/2008 09:37:54 AM · #40 |
Originally posted by buzzrock:
Everything just shifted like 5 inches to the right-- I swear to you all-- It was the freakiest damn thing I've seen In a long time!!
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Things don't just move. But You do. Could you suddenly have moved to the left? :) |
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07/04/2008 09:42:35 AM · #41 |
Originally posted by togtog:
This is my basic for claiming we are infants. |
Forgive me, but none of what you've said seems to constitute evidence for the claim that self-awareness is somehow a new phenomenon.
Originally posted by togtog:
...he obviously has no proof it happened or he would provide it, at the same time none of us witnessed it not happening. |
The second part of the sentence is the same argument that says, "You can't disprove that there's a teapot floating around the earth, so it must be true." The burden of proof is not on the individual not making the claim, rather the one claiming it.
Originally posted by togtog:
I have seen a ghost before, an old lady wearing a pale blue dress, she walked from the bathroom briefly glancing at me before going out the back door. I was seven years old. I have been since diagnosed as not completely stable upstairs and my chances of seeing things that aren't real are higher than average. So, am I nuts, did I see a ghost, was I dreaming? |
I can tell you with a high degree of certainty and especially taking into account your own anecdote of "mental instability" that you did not see a ghost. |
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07/04/2008 09:43:12 AM · #42 |
odd...
Message edited by author 2008-07-05 15:28:10.
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07/04/2008 09:50:58 AM · #43 |
why don't you google "wake out of your stupor- there areno such things as ghosts"
- because there are not ghosts, and certinly not ghosts that do trivial shit such as move things 5 inches to the right. |
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07/04/2008 11:41:40 AM · #44 |
Originally posted by blindjustice:
why don't you google "wake out of your stupor- there areno such things as ghosts"
- because there are not ghosts, and certinly not ghosts that do trivial shit such as move things 5 inches to the right. |
Well wasnt that rude..
I know what I saw, I was just wondering if anyone else here had a similar experience..
BTW-- desk seems fine today :)
Happy 4th all. |
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07/04/2008 12:03:49 PM · #45 |
Originally posted by togtog:
So, the universe has existed a long long time, life on earth, not so long. |
Your statement here is essentially correct, but your timeline is way off. Life on Earth began at least 500 million years ago; the dinosaurs were a very advanced form of land life, and they came on the scene about 200 million years ago).
The hominid (proto-human) line now extends back about 4.5 million years, and they were not the first primates.
Message edited by author 2008-07-04 12:04:11. |
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07/04/2008 01:15:42 PM · #46 |
Originally posted by buzzrock:
No major traffic-- I have only seen this type of stuff once in my life and it was - Like I said B4 with that damn wegee board--
Im not insane, not high, not drunk-- But I have seen it b4, only on a Ojiau Board though--
It just freaked me out, but was kinda an andreliane rush at that same--
Objects should not move across my desk like that-- |
Hey buzz, long time no see! It's been awhile since the Powershot A group.
I had something like this happen once. I was sitting in the kitchen watching television and drinking a glass of water, when the glass slid on it's own a few inches to the right. I was in shock and was like wtf at first, but then realized what had happened. It was a glass table and was a humid day. Condensation had formed between the bottom of the glass and the table, causing the glass to slide on this almost un-noticeable cushion of condensation.
Go about it scientifically, try to reproduce the phenomenon and verify the results. Shouting at the unseen presence and trying to provoke it, seems to produce results in the movies!
I dunno about the ouija board. My brother picked one up a few years ago out of boredom, and we went out to a an old cemetery around midnight on a dark & stormy night. Cliche, I know, but it added to the creepiness. I had the video cam, while he and his friend tried get something to happen. Nothing happened. It's just a piece of cardboard and plastic with a good marketing hook in my opinion. |
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07/04/2008 01:24:24 PM · #47 |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Originally posted by togtog:
So, the universe has existed a long long time, life on earth, not so long. |
Your statement here is essentially correct, but your timeline is way off. Life on Earth began at least 500 million years ago; the dinosaurs were a very advanced form of land life, and they came on the scene about 200 million years ago).
The hominid (proto-human) line now extends back about 4.5 million years, and they were not the first primates. |
Thanks GenerelE! I tried scouring google and *cough* wikipedia *cough* for facts but I only did about 15 minutes of research into it which was 15 minutes more than I said I would. :) |
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07/04/2008 02:27:42 PM · #48 |
Louis, with all due respect.
I, like I assume most people came to DPC to have a good time, learn something about photography and maybe help others with the same. A lot of us have enough problems in real life to come on line for more.
I initially stated my opinion of one of endless possibilities into what may have happened to buzzrock. It was not the most likely cause, and I chose it for that reason since life has an overabundance of people who state the simple, common, and obvious while ignoring the true number of possibilities.
Lots of people gave their opinions here, from humorous to rude. You are the first and only person so far to seem to take offense that others might be sharing their opinion, or specifically that I was. You can disagree with my opinions, theories, and facts all you want, but please do not take such an aggressive stance about your position or attacking my points.
Again, in all due respect, please just relax and have some fun. In my opinion you came off as being almost angry, I am not sure what I did to deserve those feelings, so I apologize if I somehow offended you or your faith by something I said. My later statement that self-awareness is a "new phenomenon" I still believe to be correct however.
The universe is very old, life on earth is very new. Anything at all that humans do is a "new phenomenon". Not to us specifically of course, however compared to the age of the universe.
It is like the young teenager believing they know everything and are an adult. Adults will see them as yet children and foolish. It is a matter of perspective. We have been invited to say five lines during a play and arrogantly having said those five lines we believe we know everything there is to know about plays, acting, and speaking.
About the "teapot in space". The OP claimed the objects on his desk moved, others suggest they did not move. Regardless of who made the initial claim both parties have stated two possible outcomes of the same event, which means one party is correct and the other incorrect and both parties are asserting that they are in fact correct.
The party saying he is incorrect have come to this conclusion with no proof nor any circumstantial evidence. This is the correct scientific method for this type... no wait, it isn't. Proper scientific method is to not assign bias to specific situation or test. However there is no proof by any party, so the end result is... we have no idea what did or did not happen, and that is a fact.
Finally, about the "ghost". You state your position like most others who do not believe in ghosts, not that I believe in them necessarily. That if someone sees the transparent figure of a person, that; It means there is an afterlife, a god or several, a spiritual plane, that they have nothing better to do than hang around shaking chains, that they retain their full memories and minds, bodies, and clothing, and that they have the power to interact with physical objects.
You look at the big picture and say "No way! This is complete and utter foolishness and could not possibly be true!". Why does a transparent figure of a person need to be so complicated as to be impossible? It could have been tiredness mixed with passing lights of a car through the window.
I see reflections on my ceiling and wall all the time, does that make me crazy? Of course not. However if I said they resembled a human, I would be mad and out of my mind? All I said was that I thought I saw a human figure and even went as far as to state it was most likely not a ghost, and also I volunteered that I am in fact mentally unstable.
You, chose to take my own point and turn it around against me as if it were your own, I find that disagreeable.
That said, this is not Rant and like I said above I'm just here for a good time, I don't like people who are rude to me, since it really is a choice and hints at their personal opinion of me, and if someone thinks that little of me then really how can I be expected to think any higher of them.
I have gone out of my way to keep this civil, I am done "arguing" on these subjects, thank you for your time Louis.
To everyone else keep the replies coming, it is always interesting hearing about unusual events that have happened and to ponder why. :)
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07/04/2008 02:58:59 PM · #49 |
I was once in a Thai restaurant, eating and reading a book. The bowl of steamed rice started moving in a slow spiral across the table! In this case it turned out that some steam had condensed under the bowl, and made a thin slippery film between the bowl and the glass tabletop. The very slight tilt of the table, and the unevenly distributed rice in the bowl helped the lateral sliding and the spin. But it was damned odd, all the same.
I have seen other things that I simply cannot explain. I guess I try to keep an open mind about what is possible, even if there is no scientific explanation. Science is playing catch-up with the universe, and it is exhilarating to imagine what we will learn.
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07/04/2008 03:09:03 PM · #50 |
Originally posted by togtog:
Louis, with all due respect...etc. |
Hello togtog,
I originally wrote the first post in this thread for the "Rant" forum, but have found that its content applies equally well to everyday conversations, it seems. |
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