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04/04/2008 12:04:22 PM · #401 |
Originally posted by gwe21:
IMO we cant do any worse than what we have. I was a strong Bush supporter in the beginning and he has run this country into the ground. I am neither republican or democrat, I vote according to the issues and which candidate I believe matches my beliefs.
That said, IF Hillary were to get the democratic ticket, I would vote republican no matter who was running. But I have personal knowledge of her and dont trust her. |
I'm honestly not trying to sound smart (its easy to mistake through type) but HOW has this country been run into the ground? (I genuinally want to know b/c my life it going pretty great at the moment...) |
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04/04/2008 12:25:26 PM · #402 |
Originally posted by ApertureAshley:
Originally posted by gwe21:
IMO we cant do any worse than what we have. I was a strong Bush supporter in the beginning and he has run this country into the ground. I am neither republican or democrat, I vote according to the issues and which candidate I believe matches my beliefs.
That said, IF Hillary were to get the democratic ticket, I would vote republican no matter who was running. But I have personal knowledge of her and dont trust her. |
I'm honestly not trying to sound smart (its easy to mistake through type) but HOW has this country been run into the ground? (I genuinally want to know b/c my life it going pretty great at the moment...) |
This is a common mistake made. Since nothing is affecting us personally then everything must be going well. We need to open our eyes to the bigger picture and the plight of those who are actually affected by the decisions of any administration.
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04/04/2008 12:51:03 PM · #403 |
Originally posted by ApertureAshley:
Originally posted by gwe21:
IMO we cant do any worse than what we have. I was a strong Bush supporter in the beginning and he has run this country into the ground. I am neither republican or democrat, I vote according to the issues and which candidate I believe matches my beliefs.
That said, IF Hillary were to get the democratic ticket, I would vote republican no matter who was running. But I have personal knowledge of her and dont trust her. |
I'm honestly not trying to sound smart (its easy to mistake through type) but HOW has this country been run into the ground? (I genuinally want to know b/c my life it going pretty great at the moment...) |
How nice for you, is the air in your rose-colored bubble scented with a pleasant aroma too? Come out and see the real world.
80,000 jobs lost last month alone, a new record. National debt at a level our grandkids won't be able to pay off. Social Security on the path to financial meltdown. In case you haven't noticed, we're in the middle of a war that was unnecessary when it was started, but is part of something that can't be left half done. Gas prices are friggin' ridiculous. and the economy has gone from prospeity to talk of recession.
Message edited by author 2008-04-04 12:52:21. |
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04/04/2008 12:57:02 PM · #404 |
Originally posted by karmat:
Doesn't matter that I think that Clinton is a few watts shy of a full bulb*...
(edit to clarify -- she just seems to me the type of person that appears controlled but is boiling underneath. She just doesn't seem "calming," and I keep waiting for a blow up. Horrible explanation, I know) |
I know how you feel, I have this image of her in face cream ranting "No more wire hangers!!!" |
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04/04/2008 12:58:54 PM · #405 |
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
Originally posted by karmat:
Doesn't matter that I think that Clinton is a few watts shy of a full bulb*...
(edit to clarify -- she just seems to me the type of person that appears controlled but is boiling underneath. She just doesn't seem "calming," and I keep waiting for a blow up. Horrible explanation, I know) |
I know how you feel, I have this image of her in face cream ranting "No more wire hangers!!!" |
Oh my gosh.
You nailed it.
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04/04/2008 01:00:39 PM · #406 |
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
... snip... and the economy has gone from prospeity to talk of recession. |
I think the talking is over...
"There doesn't appear to be any silver lining. It shows that we're right in the middle of a recession," said Carl Lantz, U.S. interest rate strategist at Credit Suisse in New York. "Our expectation is that it will be a longer recession than the last two, and we're just in the beginning."
link to article
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04/05/2008 12:09:19 AM · #407 |
Originally posted by Kelli:
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
... snip... and the economy has gone from prospeity to talk of recession. |
I think the talking is over...
"There doesn't appear to be any silver lining. It shows that we're right in the middle of a recession," said Carl Lantz, U.S. interest rate strategist at Credit Suisse in New York. "Our expectation is that it will be a longer recession than the last two, and we're just in the beginning."
link to article |
Sadly, I fear you are correct. |
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06/25/2008 08:25:07 PM · #408 |
Ok, now that the Democrats have chosen their candidate, let's re-open this discussion.
Who will it be, McCain or Obama?
Let the mud-slinging begin! |
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06/25/2008 08:33:38 PM · #409 |
Originally posted by Fromac:
Ok, now that the Democrats have chosen their candidate, let's re-open this discussion.
Who will it be, McCain or Obama?
Let the mud-slinging begin! |
Perhaps someone can correct me if I'm wrong but in recent history at least, it seems the candidate that raises the most money wins. If so then it will be Obama especially since he backed out of using public funding so his funds won't be capped.
Message edited by author 2008-06-25 20:35:02.
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06/25/2008 08:57:09 PM · #410 |
| I don't know but I do care. I will say this - Nothing personal but I don't care for either candidate. NO, I was not a Hillary supporter. |
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06/25/2008 09:00:31 PM · #411 |
Originally posted by yanko:
Originally posted by Fromac:
Ok, now that the Democrats have chosen their candidate, let's re-open this discussion.
Who will it be, McCain or Obama?
Let the mud-slinging begin! |
Perhaps someone can correct me if I'm wrong but in recent history at least, it seems the candidate that raises the most money wins. If so then it will be Obama especially since he backed out of using public funding so his funds won't be capped. |
That may be the tail wagging the dog so to speak. You may be able to raise a lot of money because people are really behind your message. Ross Perot has more money than anybody in 1988 and he didn't win just because of that.
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06/25/2008 09:20:11 PM · #412 |
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
Originally posted by yanko:
Originally posted by Fromac:
Ok, now that the Democrats have chosen their candidate, let's re-open this discussion.
Who will it be, McCain or Obama?
Let the mud-slinging begin! |
Perhaps someone can correct me if I'm wrong but in recent history at least, it seems the candidate that raises the most money wins. If so then it will be Obama especially since he backed out of using public funding so his funds won't be capped. |
That may be the tail wagging the dog so to speak. You may be able to raise a lot of money because people are really behind your message. Ross Perot has more money than anybody in 1988 and he didn't win just because of that. |
Your right but may have been because of his ears :) |
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06/25/2008 09:27:58 PM · #413 |
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
Originally posted by yanko:
Originally posted by Fromac:
Ok, now that the Democrats have chosen their candidate, let's re-open this discussion.
Who will it be, McCain or Obama?
Let the mud-slinging begin! |
Perhaps someone can correct me if I'm wrong but in recent history at least, it seems the candidate that raises the most money wins. If so then it will be Obama especially since he backed out of using public funding so his funds won't be capped. |
That may be the tail wagging the dog so to speak. You may be able to raise a lot of money because people are really behind your message. Ross Perot has more money than anybody in 1988 and he didn't win just because of that. |
Well people get behind the message because the brand has already been established. People know what they get (or think they do) with a democrat or a republican so it's just a matter of deciding whether you like your favorite ice cream with sprinkles or not. Now if Obama or McCain ran as a third party candidate not only would they have not raised the money they have but the press would be focusing on the real candidates and not them.
Message edited by author 2008-06-25 21:28:37.
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06/25/2008 09:30:09 PM · #414 |
| Has anybody noticed that President is one of the few Federal jobs for which it's not required to first pass a qualifying civil-service exam? |
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06/25/2008 10:08:50 PM · #415 |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Has anybody noticed that President is one of the few Federal jobs for which it's not required to first pass a qualifying civil-service exam? |
Congress too! |
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06/25/2008 10:11:27 PM · #416 |
| Do any elected officials have to pass a civil-service exam? Like the local sheriff? |
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06/26/2008 12:21:31 AM · #417 |
Originally posted by cpanaioti:
Do any elected officials have to pass a civil-service exam? Like the local sheriff? |
Coroners & DAs do in Colorado have to be certified/degreed. |
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06/26/2008 12:23:05 AM · #418 |
Originally posted by vtruan:
Originally posted by cpanaioti:
Do any elected officials have to pass a civil-service exam? Like the local sheriff? |
Coroners & DAs do in Colorado have to be certified/degreed. |
That makes sense but don't you think Sheriffs should have some law enforcement training before running for the job?
Message edited by author 2008-06-26 01:38:18. |
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06/26/2008 12:51:02 AM · #419 |
Originally posted by cpanaioti:
Do any elected officials have to pass a civil-service exam? |
No, qualifications for elected officials are determined by the applicable Constitution(s).
I'm just pointing out the interesting quirk in our system, where to empty the garbage in the Capitol you need to prove you are qualified on some sort of objective test, but to sit in Congress and make the laws you only need convince more people to vote for you than the other candidate.
I'm not saing it's necessarily a bad thing, just sayin' ... :-)
Message edited by author 2008-06-26 00:51:32. |
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07/24/2008 10:09:16 AM · #420 |
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
Originally posted by ApertureAshley:
Originally posted by gwe21:
IMO we cant do any worse than what we have. I was a strong Bush supporter in the beginning and he has run this country into the ground. I am neither republican or democrat, I vote according to the issues and which candidate I believe matches my beliefs.
That said, IF Hillary were to get the democratic ticket, I would vote republican no matter who was running. But I have personal knowledge of her and dont trust her. |
I'm honestly not trying to sound smart (its easy to mistake through type) but HOW has this country been run into the ground? (I genuinally want to know b/c my life it going pretty great at the moment...) |
How nice for you, is the air in your rose-colored bubble scented with a pleasant aroma too? Come out and see the real world.
80,000 jobs lost last month alone, a new record. National debt at a level our grandkids won't be able to pay off. Social Security on the path to financial meltdown. In case you haven't noticed, we're in the middle of a war that was unnecessary when it was started, but is part of something that can't be left half done. Gas prices are friggin' ridiculous. and the economy has gone from prospeity to talk of recession. |
well....thanks (I guess) for answering my question/giving examples......I think it could have been done without the sarcasm and rude statement in the beginning.....but don't worry, I know some people just can't help being rude and sarcastic when someone's opinon differs from their own :)
and on a side note....I think its HILARIOUS how everyone thinks its Bush's and Bush's fault alone we're in so much debt and whatnot......seriously, its been heading this way for a while, and to be honest, that would be quite a feat for Bush to have, as some have put it "destroyed this country" in the span of 4 years, let's be realistic here....I'm not a Bush supporter, but I don't sit around and try to place all the blame on one person....now the war, thats a whole other argument.....
regardless, the point I was trying to make originally was that it can't and isn't SOLELY Bush's fault, its the entire governments....I'm sick of all the BUsh bashing, b/c in my eyes its not all his fault.....I guess its time to start the American government bashing, you know, if we want to attack the REAL problem...
call me crazy but I love this country, even through the "being run into the ground" stage we're in, this country is still a thousand times better than others in the world, I guess I'm just one of those people who can see the good in the small things (a roof over my head, a warm bed, fresh food and water)......this isn't Somalia or Burma or any other poverish/war torn country, and until it is, I don't think its been "run into the ground"
JUST MY OPINION GUYS, please don't "freak out" and throw more sarcastic lines my way.....this is America and everyone is entitled to their opinon, its just a shame some people just can't handle someone's opinion differing from their own
Message edited by author 2008-07-24 10:11:22. |
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07/24/2008 12:06:47 PM · #421 |
Q: "Who will be the next US president?"
A: "Your mom." |
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07/24/2008 12:13:40 PM · #422 |
Originally posted by ApertureAshley:
and on a side note....I think its HILARIOUS how everyone thinks its Bush's and Bush's fault alone we're in so much debt and whatnot......seriously, its been heading this way for a while, and to be honest, that would be quite a feat for Bush to have, as some have put it "destroyed this country" in the span of 4 years, let's be realistic here....I'm not a Bush supporter, but I don't sit around and try to place all the blame on one person....now the war, thats a whole other argument.....
regardless, the point I was trying to make originally was that it can't and isn't SOLELY Bush's fault, its the entire governments....I'm sick of all the BUsh bashing, b/c in my eyes its not all his fault.....I guess its time to start the American government bashing, you know, if we want to attack the REAL problem... |
The reason the blame falls on the president (and history shows this of any president) is the president is elected to lead. When things go wrong it is a failure of leadership. The power of the president is an amazing thing. Look at Kennedy and the space race. A president can guide the nation in ways no one else can. Unfortunately from its earliest days this administration was determined to invade Iraq, a result of neo cons and warhawks feeling the US made a mistake not "driving to Baghdad" during the first gulf war. Nothing made them deviate from that course. Administration officials lied to the American public, they went on television and lied to the world. The actions of this administration have shattered the world wide impression of Americans (one that was quite soiled in many parts of the world to begin with). In the days following 9/11 the current administration had the world at its door a historic opportunity to lead the world in a campaign against terrorism, and they chose to lie to the world to further their goal of the invasion of Iraq. Instead of using it to lead, the power of the president was used to bully those that dared to voice a dissenting opinion.
Rising oil prices and the pressure on consumers at the gas pump presented another opportunity for this administration, they could have seized this moment to challenge America to become independant of overseas oil and push for more homegrown options (something that would have taken many, many years), instead they sought to keep the status quo.
Bush came to office promising to be a uniter, instead he found new to deepen exisiting divides and create new ones. America's infrastructure (highways, bridges etc...) is in worse condition than it was eight years ago. We've collapsed into a major recession. Inflation is quickly running out of control.
You're right, the failure is not solely the presidents. He failed to lead, but the people tolerated his failure to lead.
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07/24/2008 12:54:05 PM · #423 |
"Unfortunately from its earliest days this administration was determined to invade Iraq, a result of neo cons and warhawks feeling the US made a mistake not "driving to Baghdad" during the first gulf war. Nothing made them deviate from that course. Administration officials lied to the American public, they went on television and lied to the world."
The intelligence agencies of the world agreed in their assessment that Saddam had WMD. This was not a fabrication of our intelligence apparatus. With the passage of UN resolution 1441
Saddam was given one last opportunity to either prove that he had destroyed his WMD or verifiably destroy them or grave ramifications would result. He did not. The US resumed force due to violations of the cease fire that ended Gulf 1. The UN is impotent when it comes to enforcing their mandates on tyrannical regimes. They pass resolutions so that they can feel like they are doing something but the resolutions have no teeth. The US along with a coalition of countries enacted the teeth portion of the resolution as the UN itself would not.
"The actions of this administration have shattered the world wide impression of Americans (one that was quite soiled in many parts of the world to begin with). In the days following 9/11 the current administration had the world at its door a historic opportunity to lead the world in a campaign against terrorism, and they chose to lie to the world to further their goal of the invasion of Iraq. Instead of using it to lead, the power of the president was used to bully those that dared to voice a dissenting opinion."
Opinion polls should not dictate foreign policy, nor does the US seek to emulate the diplomacy of Neville Chaimberlain. We do not conduct our foreign affairs based on whether people will like us or not for the actions we take. The US conducts it's foreign affairs to ensure the prosperity and protection of its citizens. Are we perfect? No. Is any country? No. By the way, the campaign against terrorism is going rather well in Iraq right now.
"Rising oil prices and the pressure on consumers at the gas pump presented another opportunity for this administration, they could have seized this moment to challenge America to become independant of overseas oil and push for more homegrown options (something that would have taken many, many years), instead they sought to keep the status quo."
This has been a failure of every president and congress since the 70's...Bush included.
"Bush came to office promising to be a uniter, instead he found new to deepen exisiting divides and create new ones. America's infrastructure (highways, bridges etc...) is in worse condition than it was eight years ago. We've collapsed into a major recession. Inflation is quickly running out of control."
Bush was known as Texas governor to be a uniter who would work with both parties to get things done. One of his first gestures to the congress as president was to get Teddy Kennedy to help draft the education bill. The dems policy since his tenure as president began was to oppose anything Bush wanted to accomplish. If he was for it, they were against it. Whether it was judges, (remember the discussion of the use of the "nuclear option" by the republicans to break the dems unprecedented filibuster) or one of their favorite issues prior to the prez election "prescription drug benefits for medicare" which was passed but subsequently panned by the democrats, they have been his ever vigilant opposition. A uniter must have a willing opposition party to unite. The dems have been a hostile party who see nothing to be lost and everything to be gained by playing their game to the detriment of the US citizenry.
Other than a single bridge that collapsed due to poor inspection, I don't see a huge degradation of our infrastructure.
We are not in a recession. We have maintained positive growth albeit slim. A recession is two or more straight quarters of negative growth.
Inflation is a failure the president, congress and the fed. Congress in addressing our energy needs (they pass the bills - Oh and Clinton vetoed a passed bill to drill in ANWAR during his presidency leaving us with millions fewer barrels of oil to supply our need) and the fed in facilitating the devaluation of our dollar.
"You're right, the failure is not solely the presidents. He failed to lead, but the people tolerated his failure to lead."
I find it funny that the prez still has double to triple the approval rating of the congress. Could this be indicative of the real feelings of the public with regard to who is not leading, or rather, who is obstructing. |
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07/24/2008 01:06:14 PM · #424 |
Originally posted by ApertureAshley:
SOLELY Bush's fault, its the entire governments....I'm sick of all the BUsh bashing, b/c in my eyes its not all his fault..... |
No but:
" In the wake of the terrorist attacks on September 11, 2001, the United States enjoyed enormous support around the world. President Bush squandered that goodwill by taking the country into an unnecessary war of choice and misleading the American people to gain support for that war. And he failed utterly to have a plan to deal with Iraq after the invasion. He further undermined the international reputation of the United States by justifying torture.
Mr. Bush inherited a sizable budget surplus and a thriving economy. By pushing through huge tax cuts for the rich while increasing federal spending at a rapid rate, Bush transformed the surplus into a massive deficit. The tax cuts and other policies accelerated the concentration of wealth and income among the very richest Americans. These policies combined with unwavering opposition to necessary government regulations have produced the worst economic crisis since the Great Depression. Then there is the incredible shrinking dollar, the appointment of incompetent cronies, the totally inexcusable failure to react properly to the disaster of Hurricane Katrina, the blatant disregard for the ConstitutionĂ¢€”and on and on." //hnn.us/articles/48916.html
Bush vs other Presidents National Debt as % of GDP
Not to mention that he is a liar and a cheat and a thief. You think Nixon was bad because he illegally wiretapped an office at the Watergate hotel well Bush illegally wiretapped the whole country! History will surely list him as one of, if not the worse president the USA has ever had. And he destroyed the USA in a span of 8 years not 4. There is a ton of data as to his performance with regards to the economy, domestic and foreign affairs and to think he has done a good job is to deny reality.
Message edited by author 2008-07-24 13:07:24. |
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07/24/2008 01:09:44 PM · #425 |
thank you so much for that intelligent, well put response....seriosuly, it is refreshing when someone can calmly discuss these things.. :)
here is my argument, I am at work and strapped for time, so I had to look up on the internet what I am trying to say, I got it from this site
Just How Much Power Does the President Have?
Well let's see, he/she is the Commander-In-Chief of the Armed Forces, Financial Manager of the Federal budget/Bill Approver or Veto-er.
In all actuality the President has limited powers. Although the president is the Commander-In-Chief of our armed forces, he controls only a limited amount of funding to engage troops in combat.
The President is responsible for balancing our National Budget or not as we have seen but ultimately congress must approve with a majority almost all major decisions
The President has the authority to sign Bills into law or the power to veto them, however once again Congress may over-ride his veto.
The President is the Personnel Director, so to speak, and amongst his/her duties is to assign judges to the Supreme Court, and Foreign Ambassadors and other high official positions but yes, Congress must approve.
A President creates his own cabinet of experts to research and advise, after-all, there is no one person who knows it all.
The President and his cabinet create programs that may be federally financed but not actually part of the Federal Government such as FEMA, the FDA, and the IRS. These groups have influence on a large majority of federal regulations and laws. This is one of the areas that do not need the approval of Congress. Keep in mind, often the current President spends a good deal of time "cleaning up the mess of the prior establishment".
WHO IS THE CONGRESS?
This is a "house" made up of 100 Senators and 435 members of the House of Representatives. There is only one incident in history where most of Congress has agreed voting 435 for YES to 1 NO for our involvement in World War II.
All in all there is a checks and balance system. And that is what makes us a Democracy.
so, basically what I'm trying to say is, yes, the president does have some power to have made these mistakes, but he BY NO MEANS did this all by himself....like I said before, its time we addressed WHY these mistakes occur, not scorn one single person for it....obviously that doesn't help things |
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