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06/12/2008 05:46:34 PM · #1 |
Someoen sent me this the other day...can someoen explain to me, cause im sure theres some reason why this is
In the year 2000
1 $ = 1.2 Eur and 1 barrel of oil = 60$
therefore 1 barrel = 72 Eur
April 2008 )
1 $ = 0.62 Eur and 1 barrel of oil is about 115$.
therefore 1 barrel = 71,3 Eur
SO....why is the price of gas going so high in europe!!!!!!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!??!?!?!?! |
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06/12/2008 05:49:11 PM · #2 |
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06/12/2008 05:50:37 PM · #3 |
Originally posted by Ivo:
Because. |
vrlo mudro gospon Ivo :-)
EDIT: very wise mister John :-)
Message edited by author 2008-06-12 17:51:18. |
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06/12/2008 05:59:51 PM · #4 |
Originally posted by Ivo:
Because. |
I had a feeling it was that! |
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06/12/2008 06:06:37 PM · #5 |
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06/12/2008 06:37:28 PM · #6 |
because is the best answer. i speculate it won't go down any time soon.
i also speculate those good at speculating know exactly when the price will go down. or are at least speculastorming together as to when it will...
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06/12/2008 07:32:46 PM · #7 |
Originally posted by soup:
because is the best answer. i speculate it won't go down any time soon.
i also speculate those good at speculating know exactly when the price will go down. or are at least speculastorming together as to when it will... |
Exactamundo! I speculate you're right. |
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06/12/2008 07:38:53 PM · #8 |
| too bad cars don't run on methane... I could fill up right now. |
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06/12/2008 07:48:52 PM · #9 |
Originally posted by kolasi:
Someoen sent me this the other day...can someoen explain to me, cause im sure theres some reason why this is
In the year 2000
1 $ = 1.2 Eur and 1 barrel of oil = 60$
therefore 1 barrel = 72 Eur
April 2008 )
1 $ = 0.62 Eur and 1 barrel of oil is about 115$.
therefore 1 barrel = 71,3 Eur
SO....why is the price of gas going so high in europe!!!!!!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!??!?!?!?! |
Europe levies substantialy higher taxes on Gasoline. |
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06/12/2008 08:13:58 PM · #10 |
Originally posted by kolasi:
Someoen sent me this the other day...can someoen explain to me, cause im sure theres some reason why this is
In the year 2000
1 $ = 1.2 Eur and 1 barrel of oil = 60$
therefore 1 barrel = 72 Eur
April 2008 )
1 $ = 0.62 Eur and 1 barrel of oil is about 115$.
therefore 1 barrel = 71,3 Eur
SO....why is the price of gas going so high in europe!!!!!!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!??!?!?!?! |
Well, the country of Iran has chosen to price its crude oil sales in terms of euros.... to the world. At the same time, Ben Bernanke and the US Federal Reserve (our "central bank", but not a legitimate, nor constitutional, government entity) has chosen to re-inflate the US economy by debasing the US currency. At the same time, moral hazard has been introduced into the economic system by the bailout of Bear Sterns and many other big "fat cat" Wall Street Banks. This has caused a flight to safety by a world of investors... away from the US dollar. The purpose of currency debasement by the Federal Reserve is to stop and partially reverse the decline in US residential real estate... to the extent the banks can foreclose on homeowners without experiencing massive losses. At the same time, the recession is gripping the country and causing growing rates of unemployment (officially 5.5%, but unofficially, and more accurately, much higher)
America, the largest debtor nation, has only one way out... hyper-inflate the economy to erase the lending mistakes of the big banks and Wall Street firms. Therefore, the US dollar must crash. That means much higher food and energy prices for the masses. (Someone has to pay the cost for this.) Americans are suddenly much poorer... due to reduced international purchasing power. Not many have figured it out, yet. But, when they do, there may be riots in the streets. Federal Reserve Chief, Ben Bernanke, is an expert in Depression economics. He has chosen hyper-inflation over deflation.
The current situation has always led to a world war. Sorry to bring this bad news. It's an issue of deficit national leadership. |
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06/12/2008 08:17:21 PM · #11 |
| I speculate I will be riding a bike soon |
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06/12/2008 08:23:53 PM · #12 |
I'm very optimistic about raising gas prices. Something drastic needs to solve our environmental issues and this will hopefully make environmentally sustainable technology cheaper than non-environanmentaly sustainable technologies.
I believe the market and simple suply and demand will change our world for the better. It will be a rough transistion, but will be for the better.
Message edited by author 2008-06-12 20:24:04. |
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06/12/2008 08:25:35 PM · #13 |
Originally posted by hahn23:
Originally posted by kolasi:
SO....why is the price of gas going so high in europe!!!!!!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!??!?!?!?! |
Well, the country of Iran has chosen to price its crude oil sales in terms of euros.... to the world. At the same time, Ben Bernanke and the US Federal Reserve (our "central bank", but not a legitimate, nor constitutional, government entity) has chosen to re-inflate the US economy by debasing the US currency. At the same time, moral hazard has been introduced into the economic system by the bailout of Bear Sterns and many other big "fat cat" Wall Street Banks. This has caused a flight to safety by a world of investors... away from the US dollar. The purpose of currency debasement by the Federal Reserve is to stop and partially reverse the decline in US residential real estate... to the extent the banks can foreclose on homeowners without experiencing massive losses. At the same time, the recession is gripping the country and causing growing rates of unemployment (officially 5.5%, but unofficially, and more accurately, much higher)
America, the largest debtor nation, has only one way out... hyper-inflate the economy to erase the lending mistakes of the big banks and Wall Street firms. Therefore, the US dollar must crash. That means much higher food and energy prices for the masses. (Someone has to pay the cost for this.) Americans are suddenly much poorer... due to reduced international purchasing power. Not many have figured it out, yet. But, when they do, there may be riots in the streets. Federal Reserve Chief, Ben Bernanke, is an expert in Depression economics. He has chosen hyper-inflation over deflation.
The current situation has always led to a world war. Sorry to bring this bad news. It's an issue of deficit national leadership. |
I'm afraid that's how I see things shaping up as well. Though the Fed denies it, it seems to me to be convenient timing that the M3 money supply report is no longer being made available. Makes it much harder to have an idea how many dollars are flooding off the printing presses. Banks got into this problem through cheap and loose money, and the Fed has decided to fix the problem by making money even cheaper. If the situation wasn't already so far out of hand it might have had a chance of working but I don't see any way we can inflate our way out of trouble fast enough without causing major problems. We've barely seen the beginning of this... |
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06/12/2008 08:59:34 PM · #14 |
Originally posted by KelvinC:
I'm very optimistic about raising gas prices. Something drastic needs to solve our environmental issues and this will hopefully make environmentally sustainable technology cheaper than non-environanmentaly sustainable technologies.
I believe the market and simple suply and demand will change our world for the better. It will be a rough transistion, but will be for the better. |
What do you see as being the most viable option for our energy needs in the future? I'm not saying this to be confrontational at all, I agree that the cost of all forms of energy would be lower if there were many alternatives, but oil is such a huge piece of the pie right now... |
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06/12/2008 09:27:12 PM · #15 |
Originally posted by kolasi:
Someoen sent me this the other day...can someoen explain to me, cause im sure theres some reason why this is
In the year 2000
1 $ = 1.2 Eur and 1 barrel of oil = 60$
therefore 1 barrel = 72 Eur
April 2008 )
1 $ = 0.62 Eur and 1 barrel of oil is about 115$.
therefore 1 barrel = 71,3 Eur
SO....why is the price of gas going so high in europe!!!!!!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!??!?!?!?! |
The most obvious answer is your stats are wrong. At no point in 2000 was the price of oil $60/barrel. It was closer to $30/barrel with a high lower than $40/barrel. You can see the graph for medium term light crude on the wiki page here..
Sometime the answer is so obvious we miss it... |
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06/12/2008 09:41:32 PM · #16 |
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06/12/2008 09:45:43 PM · #17 |
Without speculators it would be closer to $60 a barrel (in the US anyway).....Value of currency on an international market and price of additives due to demand/supply (ethanol and other chemicals) skew the price away from a correlation you've suggested in your opening post.
I agree with the later post of market solutions. Look at the last gas crisis in the seventies, Compact cars came into prominence. Toyota, Dastun (now nissan) and volkswagon became big players in the auto market. Perhaps alternate technology sill appear and will get the the milage we should've been getting for years or it'll become economically fiasable to implement an infrastructure for an alternativer to gasoline.(hydrogen cells or...)
Sorry the post is so long....If you want a short answer, never ask an economist anything.
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06/12/2008 09:52:55 PM · #18 |
Originally posted by antares1966:
Originally posted by KelvinC:
I'm very optimistic about raising gas prices. Something drastic needs to solve our environmental issues and this will hopefully make environmentally sustainable technology cheaper than non-environanmentaly sustainable technologies.
I believe the market and simple suply and demand will change our world for the better. It will be a rough transistion, but will be for the better. |
What do you see as being the most viable option for our energy needs in the future? I'm not saying this to be confrontational at all, I agree that the cost of all forms of energy would be lower if there were many alternatives, but oil is such a huge piece of the pie right now... |
To be honest, I'm not sure what will emerge as the predominant from of energy in our world, but I stongly believe that market forces will determine it. Hopefully we will move large portions of our energy production to solar, wind, and hydro. There may even be new technologies emerge with an increase in research as oil costs make the use of oil unpracticle and not affordable. Unfortunately, these resources are not yet economically viable in terms of expense. However, it is becoming more affordable and we are seeing a rise in the use of all these energy forms. |
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06/12/2008 10:25:21 PM · #19 |
Here are some facts:
We will not run out of oil. The price of oil makes some sources of oil more economical to use - like shale oil in colorado or the oil in ND that was found in the 1950s and in teh 1990s was estimated to be one of the largest reserves of oil ever to be found - yeah, it's that big.
Problem is profit. If you can get oil from a hole in the middle east for $5/barrel and sell it for $125 or more and sell every drop you can get, why would you spend millions to get it from ND if it costs $40/barrel to do so? If you do start to exploit ND, then the supply goes up and the price, well, it goes down.
then you have Bush - his plan is to drain the world of oil so that only the US has any oil left - not a bad plan if you think about it, and are American. Our planes fly when no one else can - we win!f
As to the cost to the economy...it's coming. We are still in denial overall but the changes are starting already. My wife's employer is seeing a major labor shortage - the techs, the lower paid hourly people are quitting - the cost to drive to work is more than it's worth - they're better off to work closer to home for less money or take fast food type jobs instead of higher paying, but farther to travel to jobs in their field. My kids play sports - now. I suspect that may change as one way to cut back on costs, fuel costs that is. I figure this week I've spent close to $25 in gas just going to/from baseball games. That's $100/month...
It now costs $75 to fill my minivan and $55 to fill my wife's car. Could we get more economical vehicles? Perhaps, perhaps not. Her car gets 27 mpg on average and I work from home. Getting a more fuel effecient car will cost money - prolly $3000 in loss on the trade plus perhaps a premium on an economy car. We don't drive SUVs, but those that do are PAYING to get rid of them as dealers can't sell them at any price. A year ago we'd spend $300/month on gas - we've cut back some on driving or drive the more economical vehicle and we're approaching $500/month in gasoline bills. Don't know about you, but our budget didn't have an extra $200 a month in it. If prices stay this high more economical vehicles might make economic sense - but IMO the 'economy' cars of today are a joke - I remember the cars of the 80s - non-hybrids that got 49 on the highway and 30+ in the city. Before fuel injection too. They could do a hell of a lot better these days I bet.
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06/12/2008 10:28:35 PM · #20 |
Originally posted by neophyte:
Without speculators it would be closer to $60 a barrel (in the US anyway).....Value of currency on an international market and price of additives due to demand/supply (ethanol and other chemicals) skew the price away from a correlation you've suggested in your opening post.
I agree with the later post of market solutions. Look at the last gas crisis in the seventies, Compact cars came into prominence. Toyota, Dastun (now nissan) and volkswagon became big players in the auto market. Perhaps alternate technology sill appear and will get the the milage we should've been getting for years or it'll become economically fiasable to implement an infrastructure for an alternativer to gasoline.(hydrogen cells or...)
Sorry the post is so long....If you want a short answer, never ask an economist anything. |
Without speculation there would not be the market based system we currently have in place. The idea that oil would be $60 per barrel US otherwise is assuming the US currency, or any intangible currency come to think of it, is a reasonable way to value a tangible and finite commodity. I hesitate to believe the high prices are simply due to historical market forces or let alone the dwindling influence of OPEC. Either way, I digress.
Alternative fuels are the only answer but unfortunately our society has had a dependency upon fossil fuels for several generations and its pretty tough to break old habits. We have become complacent and are now desperately trying to pacify our addiction with ad hoc solutions like bio fuels or hydrogen. These may be solutions but we lack the infrastructure to integrate the even fractionally when compared to what we have with good old oil. Look at it this way, we will gripe over increases in discretionary consumables and even boycott them in certain cases. We do not have that luxury with petroleum as we do not have a workable plan B. WE WILL pay the price ..... because we have no choice and we will not risk the comfort of our lives by making the fundamental changes needed to adjust to a new fuel.
It is inevitable that we will, or already have, sucked out all of the easy oil and are now scrambling to get whatever oil may be available whether it be stripping oil sands or making alliances with nations which clearly contrast our social values in order to secure the dwindling nectar called oil. I'm am a strong believer in the "Peak Oil" theory and am scared as hell because the wars are just starting and will likely get worse.
Only when the absolute need arises to make a transition will there be one tabled and implemented. This will be a quiet global resolve to our short sightedness. Until that time, we will gripe over the price of oil, drive our big cars and continue paying outrageous prices for a commodity whose days are numbered. We have been wired with the divine right to have oil as we have air. The wiring is wrong.
Sorta bleak huh? Should it scare ya? You bet!
Message edited by author 2008-06-12 22:30:20. |
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06/12/2008 11:14:33 PM · #21 |
Originally posted by Prof_Fate:
A year ago we'd spend $300/month on gas - we've cut back some on driving or drive the more economical vehicle and we're approaching $500/month in gasoline bills. |
Seems like you might not be as efficient in your life as you think. Averaged over the last two months we spent $230/month on gas in Washington which is among the states with the most expensive gas (currently $4.29). This is for a family of four with two cars (Subaru Outback, Toyota Corolla). If anything we've driven more because we're moving and have driven down to Eugene (2 hours away) three times in the last two weeks with one of the trips with both cars.
Just pointing out that while you may think you are "average" in consumption or even below average, it may not be true. |
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06/12/2008 11:22:47 PM · #22 |
To do the original math using correct stats:
In 2000:
1 barrel oil = $30, 1 Eur=$0.90
Therefore 1 Barrel oil = 33 Euros
In April 2008:
1 barrel oil = $115, 1 Eur=$1.63
Therefore 1 Barrel oil = 71 Euros
Has gas doubled in price since 2000? If so, you can basically blame it on the price of oil... |
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06/12/2008 11:26:30 PM · #23 |
So I drive this
Ford F150 Super Crew 5.4 liter V8
13mpg and about $400ish per month in gas.
But today I bought this
2008 Kawasaki Versys 649cc parallel twin
65mpg and $40 per month in gas.
It was cheaper for me to park the big truck and get a bike. Like the prof said I would take it in the shorts trading it in and I could not afford another smaller car. Say a prayer for me cuz for the sake of the almighty dollar I am taking on more personal risk but it sure is gonna be fun!!!! :-D
What else can we do but bitch or adapt...
Message edited by author 2008-06-12 23:27:06. |
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06/12/2008 11:29:50 PM · #24 |
Originally posted by thegrandwazoo:
What else can we do but bitch or adapt... |
Very well said.
Except I hate when people bitch. |
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06/12/2008 11:41:56 PM · #25 |
Originally posted by hahn23:
The current situation has always led to a world war. |
Always? Every single time?
I don't necessarily doubt it, but that it has "has always led to a world war" is not very convincing since, at last count, we are up to II (edit to add that's 2) in world wars.
Otherwise, you sound informed and seem to know what you are talking about. I'm curious as to whether you really believe that we are headed toward world war and if so what is it that really supports your position.
edit to add II looks like roman numerals when composing and looks like eleven once posted.
Message edited by author 2008-06-12 23:45:28. |
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