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11/06/2003 06:01:52 PM · #101 |
In the alone challenge there is the shot of the bloody hand.
This image got as many 1's as it did 10's. I in fact voted it high. It may have been disturbing to some, but the emotive aspect of it was quite high. Would I have given this as high a score if the horizon was tilted, or the lighting was so over exposed so as to not be able to make out the details in the tile and shower curtain? Probably not... and why is that? Because the technical aspects of that emotive shot made it all come together. The same shot with poor technique would have been a nice snapshot of someone with halloween vampire blood on their hand.
You can't dismiss using good technique with good fitting images to the challenge theme. We are here to vote on a challenge.
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Originally posted by sher9204:
if they want to be GOOD, they learn. they learn composition and about colors so they can create a pleasing image. |
And here I think you've fingered the crux of the conflict -- there are many of us who do not subscribe to the equation
Good Picture = Pleasing Image
My images may not may be pleasing for some people to look at, but I think at least some of them are "good photographs" to at least the extent that they are not a "waste" of anyone's time.
There is plenty of good art which is not "pleasing." Plenty of unpleasant artists too ... but if they make you think or emote, they may be "good" artists. |
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11/06/2003 06:28:41 PM · #102 |
I agree with your analysis of that image.
I would welcome a comment which said "Interesting idea but the ___ [technical aspects] ruin it for me."
I'm OK with comments which go "Sorry -- I don't see what you're getting at here."
I welcome less comments which go "What's your point -- why are you wasting my time?"
Some people are most bothered by technical "insufficiencies," (even if artistically intentional), some by unusual, clever, oblique or off-beat interpretations of the challenge topic. Somehow I find myself offending both far too often .... |
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11/06/2003 11:11:51 PM · #103 |
i have gone through the still life shots now, and i have to say that they could be the worst group of pictures ever taken. i could take a better picture spinning in a circle with a blindfold on.
also, so many are so far off topic that no one can honestly say they fit. i don't buy into the argument that if the photographer thinks it qualifies, then it does. it would be like telling a cop that you believe 55 mph can also include 105 mph in your opinion, and therefore he can't give you a ticket for speeding. it's ludicrous.
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11/06/2003 11:21:09 PM · #104 |
| This is my first challege, and when I read the instructions it said to be creative and have fun with it. I have always tried to look at design and photography in a creative way perhaps often with a touch of humour. I think that some may be judging to literally. A lot of the non-traditional "still-lifes" meet the criteria, but maybe in a more creative than trational way. I spent 2 days, composing a traditional still life, that probably would have gotten much better scores, but I decided to go with a little more sense of humour...oh well live and learn... |
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11/06/2003 11:24:39 PM · #105 |
| i prefer creativity, however, some shots just aren't on topic at all. they aren't creative or still life. |
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11/06/2003 11:45:09 PM · #106 |
So with this thinking, when you go with a shot that you know is not in the norm, are you entering to win? I ask this only because I don't understand the idea behind entering just to enter. Maybe I am too competitive, but I am a here to improve my photography, and win a ribbon now and then. Yes, I've had my share of stinkers, and the occassional, submit just to submit entry, but overall, I want the ribbon. I want to better my photography. I want to share the best image I can.
Originally posted by Shelley:
This is my first challege, and when I read the instructions it said to be creative and have fun with it. I have always tried to look at design and photography in a creative way perhaps often with a touch of humour. I think that some may be judging to literally. A lot of the non-traditional "still-lifes" meet the criteria, but maybe in a more creative than trational way. I spent 2 days, composing a traditional still life, that probably would have gotten much better scores, but I decided to go with a little more sense of humour...oh well live and learn... |
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11/06/2003 11:47:48 PM · #107 |
This is gonna be good.....I can't wait to see the entries!
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11/06/2003 11:56:21 PM · #108 |
I'm curious as to what a person's motivation is for entering an image they know they won't do well? If you want comments, you could save yourself the time, heartbreak (and subsequent rant post) of getting 1's and 2's by posting your image in the forums, asking for comments.
Message edited by author 2003-11-06 23:58:31.
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11/06/2003 11:58:07 PM · #109 |
Originally posted by Quadrajet:
I'm curious as to what a person's motivation is for entering an image they know they won't do well? If you want comments, you could save yourself the time and heartbreak of getting 1's and 2's by simply posting your image in the forums. |
Exactly! (crab buys Quad a beer)
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11/07/2003 12:00:03 AM · #110 |
| I feel that many people here just posted whatever they wanted and didn't even try to meet the topic for still life. My frustration of this while going through the images combined with a bad day and mood resulted in my not really looking for the creative interpretation of the topic. If it didn't imediatly say "still life" to me it summarilly recieved a 1 and a dictionary quote as a comment, I am sorry for this it was wrong. As GeneralE pointed out to me, and anybody who knows my work, I quite often push the edge of interpretation myself. I will go back through the ones I initially and hastily felt were not " worthy " and re-evaluate them. This is not to say that all of the 1's I gave were not well deserved. I have watched many challenges and I feel that it just is getting worse over time of people not even making the slightest effort to meet the challenge. Maybe the answer is a open challenge, maybe not I don't know. |
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11/07/2003 12:14:32 AM · #111 |
Originally posted by Quadrajet:
I'm curious as to what a person's motivation is for entering an image they know they won't do well? If you want comments, you could save yourself the time, heartbreak (and subsequent rant post) of getting 1's and 2's by posting your image in the forums, asking for comments. |
In a challenge I get a representative sampling of opinion from 1-200 members of the DPC community. In the threads, one usually gets a detailed interaction with 1-4 people or, as in the case of the last thread I started, no responses at all.
If I vote on your photo, you vote on mine. What's so unfair or burdensome about that?
I don't complain anout ones and twos. I complain about people who complain that giving me that one or two is a waste of their time.
Message edited by author 2003-11-07 00:16:09. |
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11/07/2003 12:18:57 AM · #112 |
In the forum you are your own subject, in a challenge your are suppose to be trying to meet a challenge detail. Failure to do so, when I have, is putting the burdon on me to spend my time voting on an off topic image. If I put in my time to make an on topic image, then I don't feel it's a burdon to vote on my image, as I have met the spirit of the site. 3 ribbons are awarded each challenge. Shouldn't those who enter, be entering for the chance at one of them?
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Originally posted by Quadrajet:
I'm curious as to what a person's motivation is for entering an image they know they won't do well? If you want comments, you could save yourself the time, heartbreak (and subsequent rant post) of getting 1's and 2's by posting your image in the forums, asking for comments. |
In a challenge I get a representative sampling of opinion from 1-200 members of the DPC community. In the threads, one usually gets a detailed interaction with 1-4 people or, as in the case of the last thread I started, no responses at all.
If I vote on your photo, you vote on mine. What's so unfair or burdensome about that? |
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11/07/2003 12:23:37 AM · #113 |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Originally posted by Quadrajet:
I'm curious as to what a person's motivation is for entering an image they know they won't do well? If you want comments, you could save yourself the time, heartbreak (and subsequent rant post) of getting 1's and 2's by posting your image in the forums, asking for comments. |
In a challenge I get a representative sampling of opinion from 1-200 members of the DPC community. In the threads, one usually gets a detailed interaction with 1-4 people or, as in the case of the last thread I started, no responses at all.
If I vote on your photo, you vote on mine. What's so unfair or burdensome about that? |
Nothing burdensome or unfair about it. I'm just wondering if the comments you receive in challenges are the type of comments you're looking for? I mean, if you enter an image that's possibly controversial or viewed as "off topic", I doubt you're interested in what the mainstream view from DPC'ers has to say about it.
In my opinion, images that are controversial or "experimental" are more suited for forums and galleries than mainstream online contests. This isn't to say that these images don't have value, quite the contrary. Their value lies in a discriminating eye and a colorful imagination, of which, I'm afraid a majority of DPC'ers don't have.
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11/07/2003 12:24:30 AM · #114 |
Please send me/post a list of which of my challenge entries you find don't meet the challenge to such a degree that they were a waste of your time, so we can talk in specifics and not generalities.
I have several extremely low-scoring photos lately, so you should have no problem.
Message edited by author 2003-11-07 00:25:01. |
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11/07/2003 12:33:04 AM · #115 |
Originally posted by Quadrajet:
I'm just wondering if the comments you receive in challenges are the type of comments you're looking for? I mean, if you enter an image that's possibly controversial or viewed as "off topic", I doubt you're interested in what the mainstream view from DPC'ers has to say about it.
In my opinion, images that are controversial or "experimental" are more suited for forums and galleries than mainstream online contests. This isn't to say that these images don't have value, quite the contrary. Their value lies in a discriminating eye and a colorful imagination, of which, I'm afraid a majority of DPC'ers don't have. |
How will they develop one without being exposed to new ideas, techniques, or controversial thinking? There is NOT one official DPC-style of photo for which we must aim, unless we want to pander solely to the mainstream voter and seek a high score. That is not the sole purpose of DPC, and just because some people want to limit the type of photos submitted doesn't make it necessary to change.
An art school which only taught people to paint copies of the "great masters" wouldn't likely be successful ... |
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11/07/2003 12:34:51 AM · #116 |
Hrm, just a quick look... how about your recipe entry? Can I make antacids from it? If I recall the challenge details were to take a photo of a recipe and post the recipe in the info box. You have a shot that the horizon isn't level, your lighting appears to be a single light source, perhaps onboard flash. You seem to have taken a little time in picking your plate and arranging of the antacids, but overall, when we are looking for a recipe shot, we are looking for nice recipe book shots that represent the recipe it is for. A photo that makes it look appetizing enough for us to want to prepare it. Your image in my opinion doesn't fit the challenge. There isn't enough to interest me in it.
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Please send me/post a list of which of my challenge entries you find don't meet the challenge to such a degree that they were a waste of your time, so we can talk in specifics and not generalities.
I have several extremely low-scoring photos lately, so you should have no problem. |
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11/07/2003 12:43:17 AM · #117 |
You can submit to //www.deviantart.com and //www.photopoints.com if you're wanting to try stuff that isn't on topic. This is a challenge website. You are entering a challenge. And you have all the rights in the world to try new stuff, but I have the right to vote my opinion too. Have you ever taken an extreme effort to 'sellout' and try for a winning shot? I mean, work totally within tried and true photography techniques so as to get a WOW from the voter and present them with a shot that they feel can't be improved upon.
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Originally posted by Quadrajet:
I'm just wondering if the comments you receive in challenges are the type of comments you're looking for? I mean, if you enter an image that's possibly controversial or viewed as "off topic", I doubt you're interested in what the mainstream view from DPC'ers has to say about it.
In my opinion, images that are controversial or "experimental" are more suited for forums and galleries than mainstream online contests. This isn't to say that these images don't have value, quite the contrary. Their value lies in a discriminating eye and a colorful imagination, of which, I'm afraid a majority of DPC'ers don't have. |
How will they develop one without being exposed to new ideas, techniques, or controversial thinking? There is NOT one official DPC-style of photo for which we must aim, unless we want to pander solely to the mainstream voter and seek a high score. That is not the sole purpose of DPC, and just because some people want to limit the type of photos submitted doesn't make it necessary to change.
An art school which only taught people to paint copies of the "great masters" wouldn't likely be successful ... |
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11/07/2003 01:24:40 AM · #118 |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
How will they develop one without being exposed to new ideas, techniques, or controversial thinking? |
In my opinion, a person new to photography would benefit more from an image employing the (established) basics of composition, lighting and exposure. If that weren't the case, we'd all use disposables and shoot whatever was in front of us...we'd all be "avant garde". My understanding is, the website is called "Digital Photography Challenge". Challenge being one of the words used to describe the site, so I would say that the challenge portion of the site holds more weight than the learning side of it. Even so, there are tutorials, forums and "how'd they do that's" for the newbie photographers to check out if they do want to learn. Although the challenges are indeed a place to learn, it isn't their main purpose.
Originally posted by GeneralE:
An art school which only taught people to paint copies of the "great masters" wouldn't likely be successful... |
True, however art schools frequently teach the techniques of the great masters. Once you learn how to do it a pre-established way, you can go out and add to that knowledge, in turn creating your own unique works, rather than copying the masters.
*edited to make sense*
Message edited by author 2003-11-07 01:29:58.
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11/07/2003 01:58:51 AM · #119 |
Originally posted by crabappl3:
Hrm, just a quick look... how about your recipe entry? Can I make antacids from it? |
Possibly, I give the formulation and recommended dosages. I chose the plate with some care, but did change the color, easier sinse the light source was an incandescent reading lamp. I tried to arrange the tablets to be "deliberately haphazard" to present a variety of angles, shapes, and colors. The shooting angle was the best I could get, although since all the elements are cylindrical it's a little hard for me te tell what you'd like me to line up straight.
I've been cooking for 48 years. I imaginged myself confronted with the challenge entries as if they were all actually dishes on the table for us to sample, and figured after all that some gastric (and comic) relief might be be appreciated.
And, as a medical practitioner, I felt obligated to remind people that epicurian overindilgence and the oft-resultant hyperacidity can lead to GERD (Gatro-Esophogeal Reflux Disease) and an increased risk of esophogeal cancer. Most of us (and especially women and children) do not consume enough calcium, potentially leading to osteoporosis as well as nerve and muscular irregularities.
Now, if I'd presented you with a plate of penicillin or a vase of Viagra, I think you'd have a better (but not absolute) claim to my being off-topic. But the challenge was Food, and I think (thought) something one eats to relieve the consequences of gluttony qualifies as on-topic. You are free to continue to disagree, but I don't want you to think that it was submitted without thought or planning, even if that thinking was flawed in your opinion.
Besides, isn't it the people who gave it the nines and ten whose sanity you should question? I never claimed it should be a winning photo, just that it deserved a place in the challenge, and would hopefully give a couple of people a chuckle as they came across it.
You can search further ... only 130 entries to go ...
Message edited by author 2003-11-07 02:02:50. |
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11/07/2003 02:00:59 AM · #120 |
//www.deviantprints.com/~paradisepark/
Your comments, criticisms, or suggestions are (really!) welcome.
Message edited by author 2003-11-07 02:01:47. |
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11/07/2003 02:37:40 AM · #121 |
At least we're not dealing with something like this:
Daily Humor
November 6, 2003
My family's art-supply store offers custom photo processing. One time, a customer and an employee got into a discussion about a print. The negative showed delightful scenery with a utility pole blocking a choice part of the view. We could understand our employee's frustration when the customer insisted, "Look, just reverse the negative so the print will show what's behind the pole!"
- submitted to Reader's Digest by Janey Walser |
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11/07/2003 02:42:33 AM · #122 |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
At least we're not dealing with something like this:
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LOL Ya know GeneralE, sometimes I think at times we are. ;)
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11/07/2003 03:27:01 AM · #123 |
Originally posted by crabappl3:
... I don't understand the idea behind entering just to enter. ... |
Originally posted by crabappl3:
... I've had my share of stinkers, and the occassional, submit just to submit entry ... |
Now you've got me confused again! |
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11/07/2003 07:28:19 AM · #124 |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
I never claimed it should be a winning photo, just that it deserved a place in the challenge, and would hopefully give a couple of people a chuckle as they came across it.
You can search further ... only 130 entries to go ... |
This is my point exactly. I'm not looking for a chuckle in a recipe challenge. I am looking for people who have master the intent of the challenge. People who took the time to provide me with a high quality image that could be used in a cookbook to illustrate a RECIPE! Your medical background has no weight in this challenge. The challenge didn't as me to show an image of Mt. Dew and Cheetos just because I'm in the computer field. So would it have been fair to ask the voters to suffer through that image if I had submitted it, with me knowing full well that it's not what would be looked for?
If the challenge had been for something more related to medicine or something like that, then I'm sure yours would have scored higher.
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11/07/2003 07:31:35 AM · #125 |
Originally posted by bod:
Originally posted by crabappl3:
... I don't understand the idea behind entering just to enter. ... |
Originally posted by crabappl3:
... I've had my share of stinkers, and the occassional, submit just to submit entry ... |
Now you've got me confused again! |
I am human too, but the 'stinkers just for votes' I have submitted, which are few, are still on topic. They just suffer from lack of time to put the whole thing together to be my best offering. I don't recall one time where I have submitted something that puts me so far in left field, when the rest of my team is back in the dugout.
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