Venting, venting, venting - DPChallenge Forums

Nikon AF Nikkor 85mm f/1.8D

06/10/2008 05:29:58 PM · #26

Well Louis maybe you should read all my posts then. I said the photo I am talking about was taken by a female DPC member and they have posted it in another forum. I am trying to be fair and not name names and make a general comment about a moral issue one that you take offense to. Yes I insulted you, but remember when I made my post it was a general comment. When you replied to my post it was comments directed at me! Take a look Loius most people have either refrained from commenting or have commented in seeming support of such images. I know who I'd rather be.

Louis

Nikon D800

06/10/2008 05:39:16 PM · #27

Oh, I read everything you wrote. I even understood up to 70% of it. Well, that's what I get for having an opinion I suppose. Seems you can call anyone anything you like with impunity, so long as you please think of the children!!

06/10/2008 05:42:35 PM · #28

Originally posted by overclover:

Oh come on scalvert thats a little girl in all her purity and the picture is not explicit. ...I am talking sexually provactive pictures of underage children. Not the innocence of childhood here for gods sake.

The whole point of the article was that some people would think that photo is VERY explicit, and you could lose everything over that shot (even if you didn't post it anywhere) in the name of protecting children. The example you posted was an apparent pedophile, but then you went on to blame the media for creating an environment that fosters such behavior (even though that behavior existed before there WAS a media). Pedophiles are sick, but sometimes the "solutions" brought on by hysteria can be worse than the problem.

06/10/2008 05:43:34 PM · #29

Oh do go away Louis. Thats pathetic really my posts are not hysterical they're angry I do believe that's what the rant section is for right? Or are you having trouble with the meaning of rant? As for understanding what I said. I think I was perfectly clear I personally find sexually provocative pictures of underage kids and comments by older men in a sexual manner repulsive. Call the villagers, I do believe the village idiot wants to burn me at the stake!

06/10/2008 05:48:35 PM · #30

Scalvert my mistake it would seem would be to post the news story and the other together. For me they coincided on the same evening and I thought it vile that older men would find underage kids sexy or think of them like that. I see your point with your post but I can assure you I am not an extremist when it comes to that! I think some of the most wonderful images of children in purity I have witnessed on this site. And that example did not offend me in any way. I find it sad people would want to rob innocence and the right to it away from kids. Having said that I still think it the mature adults job to say this is isn't right when it comes to sexually provactive images of underage kids.

06/10/2008 05:55:20 PM · #31

Media, marketing, advetising, in one way or another are responsible for so many wrongs. Little black lacy bras being sold in target for 8yo's makeup marketed at kids as young as 6. Beauty pageants where mothers dress their children up to look like *deletes* Clothing made for little kids that look like something you'd see on a street worker. However my point was and remains that it's wrong that sexually provocative images of an underage teen are taken and it's wrong that grown men feel comfortable in a public forum to call it sexy!

06/10/2008 06:00:37 PM · #32

Originally posted by overclover:

Having said that I still think it the mature adults job to say this is isn't right when it comes to sexually provactive images of underage kids.

The issue, as noted, is defining what exactly constitutes sexually provocative (not so much the obvious, but the gray areas). I've had people PM links to my challenge entries (of my kids) swiped and posted to porn sites. Of course I wouldn't shoot, much less enter, any remotely provocative photo of a kid, but the wackos will still find something to drool over. Now how exactly am I supposed to prevent such use? All I can really do is demand that the images be removed.

06/10/2008 06:05:29 PM · #33

Well put it this way then. I saw a thread a while back that I didn't comment in. A wonderful picture Judy took of her daughter her long hair looking like a spider. I did NOT find that picture offensive, I found it artistic. Is that any indication without me having to post the image I am refering to of what it might take for me to to find something offensive?

Message edited by author 2008-06-10 18:06:22.

06/10/2008 06:05:58 PM · #34

Originally posted by overclover:

makeup marketed at kids as young as 6. Beauty pageants where mothers dress their children up to look like *deletes* Clothing made for little kids that look like something you'd see on a street worker...

Heck, that's probably been going on since Roman times, so it's kinda hard to blame the media. Shall we make it illegal for little girls to play dress up? We could arrest anyone who takes a photo of a kid in an adult Halloween costume, too. Somehow, I don't think that would solve the problem.

06/10/2008 06:08:41 PM · #35

No Scalvert, my point was it is an adults job somwhere, somehow to draw the line between ok and not ok. Do we not agree that moral degradation is resposible for much of societies downfalls?

06/10/2008 06:09:15 PM · #36

Originally posted by overclover:

Is that any indication without me having to post the image I am refering to of what it might take for me to to find something offensive?

What you or I find offensive is moot if the police come knocking at Judi's door over a print order sent to WalMart.

Nikon AF-S DX NIKKOR 18-200mm f/3.5-5.6G ED VR II

06/10/2008 06:16:34 PM · #37

I see your points. There are extremes with any moral argument. The eternal moral debates. I just think the answer is not, in not saying anything at all. And we do as adults with a decent social conscience need to stand up and say hey, I think this is wrong. Standing up for what you believe in isn't something anyone should shy away from. As you are now obviously making a point you're standing up for what you believe in. Might I add in a much more mature fashion than some. You have a point of view and you're expressing it as am I. I can respect that and even respect a differing opinion when it's not veiled with personal insults and cracks about the state of my mind!

Message edited by author 2008-06-10 18:17:23.

togtog

Nikon D300

06/10/2008 06:18:18 PM · #38

Well as I understand it, kids typically like to mimic their parents up to a certain age, and then mimic actors, bands, etc. whom are typically adults and dress like adults. Therefore kids wish to dress in mini versions of the same outfits. I'm not saying it is right or wrong, but I am sure someone found if offensive when swimsuits turned from one piece to two piece, and then kids versions swiftly followed. Have you seen some of the trash Disney is selling for kids? There was a Dateline about it, selling actual lingerie for 6yos in China with Mickey Mouse logos on it. I've not seen anything like that over here in the states.

Anyway, minors, kids, it is kinda vague agewise. I think from a scientific view, once a girl starts menstruating and developing they are supposed to appeal to the opposite gender, same for guys. Same for most of the animal kingdom. So I think males not being attracted to girls to be more repulsive, and I haven't read any scientific paper that states that a man should "lose his nerve" once a certain age gap was met.

That said, looking or wanting to look, and sticking a cam up someones dress or doing something with them are grossly different things and should be the actual focus of your outrage. You can't stop guys, and girls from wanting to and trying to look. However a stop should be put to them abusing anyones right to privacy or pressuring someone into something they are or should be uncomfortable with.

Am I that far out there?

Nikon AF Nikkor 85mm f/1.8D

06/10/2008 06:20:04 PM · #39

Originally posted by overclover:

Do we not agree that moral degradation is resposible for much of societies downfalls?

We do not. I think that's a false perception, and that society generally follows a higher moral standard than past generations. Exhibit A: I've got DVDs of Bugs Bunny cartoons I watched as a kid that now come with warnings and narrated disclaimers about violence and racism that were apparently OK just a few decades ago.

Louis

Nikon D800

06/10/2008 06:22:34 PM · #40

Originally posted by overclover:

...As you are now obviously making a point you're standing up for what you believe in. Might I add in a much more mature fashion than some. You have a point of view and you're expressing it as am I. I can respect that and even respect a differing opinion when it's not veiled with personal insults and cracks about the state of my mind!

Since this is obviously directed at me, I feel I must point out that it was you, in fact, that offered a pointed insult in response to what was simply an evenly stated opinion, and even admitted to doing so. But carry on.

06/10/2008 06:30:16 PM · #41

How does that explain the explosion in the breakdown of the family unit. Or the ever increasing teen pregnancies and drug abuse? Or a lot of teenagers obvious lack of respect for authority. How does that explain schools needing security guards and metal detectors? Have you driven past a high school recently and seen what they wear to school? I am talking on a whole. Forums such as this do not tolerate vile and revolting language, but take yourself to any chat on the net and you can see what teens and adults alike think is ok.

I'm not in any way saying ALL I'm saying it's an ever increasing population. Take a tour of myspace you're meant to be at least 15 on there. Kids worked it out just say you're older when you sign up. I recently had a neighbour complain to me her daughter was on my space 11 yo with a photo of herself dressed in skimpy little shorts and a tank top. When her mother found it she flipped. Asked me to block the sites. The young girl didn't understand the fuss all her friends were doing it!

Nikon AF-S DX NIKKOR 18-200mm f/3.5-5.6G ED VR II

06/10/2008 06:32:26 PM · #42

I shall carry on Louis, I shall indeed!

togtog

Nikon D300

06/10/2008 06:45:53 PM · #43

Maybe the problems with society and youth is the information age. When I was a kid, there was the local news, but that was pretty limited. Nowadays kids are washed with the problems of the world, China, Korea, what Bush screwed up last night. The world looks a lot more dead end and bleak today than it did when I was a kid. When I was a kid, I worried about kids liking me at school. Today kids get to worry about recessions, world wars, and terrorists.

Life may just seem hopeless to them now, and when life is hopeless why bother caring about doing the right thing, you know you are screwed in the long run so take it all now and as fast as you can.

Just a thought.

06/10/2008 06:50:45 PM · #44

No togtog you're not that far out there. But I do believe there should be some resemblance of an age line drawn. Are you aware that puberty may begin as early as 7 or 8 years old or as late as 14 years old and that young girls may not be fully developed until they're 18-20. Thats without even considering the emotional maturity and health issues. I honestly think that to other teens the attraction is normal. To grown men thinking that an underage kid is sexy well I'm sorry I still disagree.

06/10/2008 06:52:40 PM · #45

Originally posted by overclover:

That last sentence is telling. Much of this sounds like a lack of parental oversight rather than moral degradation. Decades ago kids were having sex, there were fights in school, parents were appalled at what their kids wore and elders complained about a lack of respect. With the advent of cars and then the internet, the family unit was bound to weaken as kids that use to stay close to home with their parents have greater access to the world, and any loss of parental guidance will produce exactly what you describe.

06/10/2008 06:56:44 PM · #46

Parental oversight is moral degradation!

Message edited by author 2008-06-10 18:57:37.

Canon 12x IS USM (S3 IS built-in Lens) -- 36-432mm (35mm EQ)

06/10/2008 06:57:21 PM · #47

Originally posted by overclover:

Parental oversight is a moral degradation!

:-/

GeneralE

Canon PowerShot S3 IS

06/10/2008 07:07:45 PM · #48

Originally posted by overclover:

How does that explain ... the ever increasing teen pregnancies ...

Teen pregnancies are down in the US. (And rates are typically lower in Europe than in the US, since they have more sensible sex-education and freer access to contraceptives, and a generally more relaxed attitude towards nudity and sex.)

US Government (CDC) Report
"The teenage pregnancy rate dropped 38 percent during 1990â��2004, reaching an historic low of 72.2 pregnancies per 1,000 women aged 15â��19 years. Rates for younger teenagers declined relatively more than for older teenagers."

Message edited by author 2008-06-10 19:18:00.

togtog

Nikon D300

Nikon AF-S DX NIKKOR 18-200mm f/3.5-5.6G ED VR II

06/10/2008 07:11:59 PM · #49

Originally posted by overclover:

I do believe I have heard that those lowering ages are due to our wonderful bovine steroids, which are designed to make cows grow up faster. The fact remains that the visual and physical cues may still be present despite the age decreasing, so it would make sense men would be affected by that.

I'm not saying a line should not be drawn, personally I think females can act pretty foolish well into their 30s. Children should be protected. However I'm not sure men should be faulted for responding to their supposedly natural feelings on the matter.

I'm just not sure why it should be acceptable for a 20yo guy to be attracted to an "underage" (btw would you mind defining what underage is to you), however not acceptable for a 60yo guy. They have all the same desires, and hell, God designed women to run out of eggs after a certain period however a 90yo man still has sperm, so it seems nature or God feels men should be frisky.

Edit:

PS- Thanks overclover, I was wanting some action today. :)

Message edited by author 2008-06-10 19:18:29.