Unmasking the Mask Challenge... - DPChallenge Forums

06/02/2008 01:41:17 PM · #151

Originally posted by dsa157:

Originally posted by HawkeyeLonewolf:

But no, DNMC on a clearly defined challenge rates a one. Period. In this challenge "MASK" is subjective (open to interpretation) to me, WEARING and SOMEONE are objective (not open to interpretation). To me if it does not meet the challenge, it deserves a 0, but we cannot vote that, so I reserve 1 for those and then use 2-10 for the rest of the images that did try and meet the terms of the challenge.

Well we certainly are all free to vote however we want on the site. As long as people are consistent it really doesn't matter. I personally have a very low average vote given out - some people might take offense at that, I prefer to think I just have high standards. :)

Usually, however, I vote low on poorly executed technical aspects of the image but will still try to give a point or 2 bump when I see a photographer that went beyond a literal interpretation of a challenge.

You, Hawkeye, are in my opinion, a talented photographer, both technically and artistically. You have an eye for color and composition, but creativity as well - I really like, for example, your profile picture of the penny on the tracks. When I first saw that, it made me smile, as it is a very emotive shot without any people or trains being present in the frame. I still see a father and son (OK, me and my son...) anxiously waiting for the train to come along and squash our penny flat after which we'd pick up the warm copper piece and see if we could still make out any of the engravings. It tells a great story.

Wouldn't it be a shame if this was a "train" challenge and someone suggested that this DNMC because no train was in the frame?

We do ourselves a disservice if we do not consider the stories in the photos. Use the challenge descriptions as guidelines and open your mind to new perspectives. Never mind the challenges or scores, just see how doing so improves your own photography and appreciation of art in general.

Dave

First, thank you for your kind words.

However, I would not enter that photo in a TRAINS challenge, because there is no train involved IN THE PHOTO. Yes, there is a track and one could assume there is a train to come eventually and that the purpose of the penny being there is to be flattened by a train.

If the challenge were RAILROADS, then I might have entered it.

I get frustrated when people defend great photos that don't meet the clear terms of the challenge. Most of them here are suggestive or subjective in terms of what you shoot. A few, like this one have objective elements that cannot be ignored. That's not a "strict literal interpretation" at all -- it's the theme of the challenge. If anything goes, then why have a theme at all?

Perhaps the solution here is to inverse all the scores. Give (not award, but give) 10s to the DNMC photos and 1s to the morons who took the time to actually come up with a creative and well executed concept that actually met the terms of the challenge.

That would make EVERYONE happy.

Canon EF 28-135mm f/3.5-5.6 IS USM

06/02/2008 01:42:22 PM · #152

Originally posted by kiwiness:

Originally posted by HawkeyeLonewolf:

Originally posted by Patrick_R:

Originally posted by HawkeyeLonewolf:
But again, I don't see why everyone is so worked up. I'm one person with one vote.

ummmm because before this came up in this thread my image was a 6.3 and now its a 4.8?

Do you think you failed to meet the challenge as defined? If you did then why blame this thread?

Hawk I for one am blaming this thread because I am now getting DNMC comments although my subject is definitely wearing a mask.

*sigh* -- I was not aware I wielded that much power.

Message edited by author 2008-06-02 13:42:44.

dsa157

Canon EOS-50D

06/02/2008 01:43:10 PM · #153

Originally posted by kiwiness:

Hawk I for one am blaming this thread because I am now getting DNMC comments although my subject is definitely wearing a mask.

yeah, well, you got enough damn ribbons already, Gary. :)
I'm gonna go now and try to figure out which shot is yours and give you a 1 just out of spite and petty jealousy :)

Dave

06/02/2008 01:44:54 PM · #154

Originally posted by dsa157:

Originally posted by kiwiness:

Hawk I for one am blaming this thread because I am now getting DNMC comments although my subject is definitely wearing a mask.

yeah, well, you got enough damn ribbons already, Gary. :)
I'm gonna go now and try to figure out which shot is yours and give you a 1 just out of spite and petty jealousy :)

Dave

Cancel that beer I owed you Dave :)

06/02/2008 01:46:19 PM · #155

Originally posted by HawkeyeLonewolf:

Originally posted by kiwiness:

Originally posted by HawkeyeLonewolf:

Originally posted by Patrick_R:

Originally posted by HawkeyeLonewolf:
But again, I don't see why everyone is so worked up. I'm one person with one vote.

ummmm because before this came up in this thread my image was a 6.3 and now its a 4.8?

Do you think you failed to meet the challenge as defined? If you did then why blame this thread?

Hawk I for one am blaming this thread because I am now getting DNMC comments although my subject is definitely wearing a mask.

*sigh* -- I was not aware I wielded that much power.

With threads like this you can influence the voting a a lot. Lesson learned!

Canon EF 24-105mm f/4.0L IS

06/02/2008 01:50:18 PM · #156

Originally posted by HawkeyeLonewolf:

Originally posted by Patrick_R:

Originally posted by HawkeyeLonewolf:
But again, I don't see why everyone is so worked up. I'm one person with one vote.

ummmm because before this came up in this thread my image was a 6.3 and now its a 4.8?

Do you think you failed to meet the challenge as defined? If you did then why blame this thread?

No I do not feel that I failed to meet the challenge. I feel I meet it just fine. You however do not feel i did.... and because this thread people are DNMC entries that really don't deserve it. BTW if you had entered that penny entry into a train challenge I would have given you a high score and not DQed you because it to brings memories to me and I imediatly think train....

scalvert

Canon EOS-5D Mark III

06/02/2008 01:50:47 PM · #157

Originally posted by HawkeyeLonewolf:

I get frustrated when people defend great photos that don't meet the clear terms of the challenge. A few, like this one have objective elements that cannot be ignored.

Are you also ruthlessly smacking down any mask that isn't elaborate/baroque or simple and clean? The challenge description clearly stated that it could be one or the other, but some people had the audacity to use a mask that was only moderately complex. :-/

06/02/2008 01:57:55 PM · #158

Originally posted by scalvert:

Originally posted by HawkeyeLonewolf:
I get frustrated when people defend great photos that don't meet the clear terms of the challenge. A few, like this one have objective elements that cannot be ignored.

Are you also ruthlessly smacking down any mask that isn't elaborate/baroque or simple and clean? The challenge description clearly stated that it could be one or the other, but some people had the audacity to use a mask that was only moderately complex. :-/

I have not ruthlessly smacked down any photo.

I've only voted per the spirit of this site and description of the theme.

Message edited by author 2008-06-02 14:06:00.

Nikon AF-S NIKKOR 24-70mm f/2.8G ED

06/02/2008 02:00:29 PM · #159

Originally posted by Patrick_R:

Please don't.

If I'd been so silly as to enter a non-train picture into a trains challenge, I would not have deserved a high score. If I cannot come up with a photo that meets the challenge, I just skip it. I trust most of the voters here would have said "Train? What train" and tanked me. As it should be.

Citadel

Nikon D7500

06/02/2008 02:00:35 PM · #160

Originally posted by HawkeyeLonewolf:

Originally posted by scalvert:

Originally posted by HawkeyeLonewolf:
I get frustrated when people defend great photos that don't meet the clear terms of the challenge. A few, like this one have objective elements that cannot be ignored.

Are you also ruthlessly smacking down any mask that isn't elaborate/baroque or simple and clean? The challenge description clearly stated that it could be one or the other, but some people had the audacity to use a mask that was only moderately complex. :-/

I have not ruthlessly smacked down any photo.

I've only voted per the spirit and description of the theme.

I would disagree on the spirit part. However (and hopefully people listen to this part) you are entitled to your opinion which is not going to change. It would appear in fact that the more we try to persuade you to change your mind, the more you are digging your heels in.

06/02/2008 02:05:37 PM · #161

Originally posted by Citadel:

Originally posted by HawkeyeLonewolf:

Originally posted by scalvert:

Originally posted by HawkeyeLonewolf:
I get frustrated when people defend great photos that don't meet the clear terms of the challenge. A few, like this one have objective elements that cannot be ignored.

Are you also ruthlessly smacking down any mask that isn't elaborate/baroque or simple and clean? The challenge description clearly stated that it could be one or the other, but some people had the audacity to use a mask that was only moderately complex. :-/

I have not ruthlessly smacked down any photo.

I've only voted per the spirit and description of the theme.

I would disagree on the spirit part. However (and hopefully people listen to this part) you are entitled to your opinion which is not going to change. It would appear in fact that the more we try to persuade you to change your mind, the more you are digging your heels in.

That's what being right will do for you. :)

And I meant "spirit of the site" Editing error.

Nikon AF-S NIKKOR 24-70mm f/2.8G ED

06/02/2008 02:06:06 PM · #162

Originally posted by HawkeyeLonewolf:

Originally posted by Patrick_R:
No I do not feel that I failed to meet the challenge. I feel I meet it just fine. You however do not feel i did.... and because this thread people are DNMC entries that really don't deserve it. BTW if you had entered that penny entry into a train challenge I would have given you a high score and not DQed you because it to brings memories to me and I imediatly think train....

Please don't.

If I'd been so silly as to enter a non-train picture into a trains challenge, I would not have deserved a high score. If I cannot come up with a photo that meets the challenge, I just skip it. I trust most of the voters here would have said "Train? What train" and tanked me. As it should be.

But don't you understand? Sometimes what isn't there is just as important as what is there. By not adding that train I can imagine the whole story in my head without having to be shown everything. I can imagine the father and sun just out of frame smiling and laughing...

Citadel

Nikon D7500

06/02/2008 02:12:50 PM · #163

Originally posted by HawkeyeLonewolf:

That's what being right will do for you. :)

Don't confuse obstinance with correctness.

littlegett

Canon EOS-20D

Canon EF 17-40mm f/4.0L USM

06/02/2008 02:15:26 PM · #164

Originally posted by HawkeyeLonewolf:

)

And I meant "spirit of the site" Editing error.

Fun and learning?

So I hope you are leaving many helpful comments on all of the images, specially the DNMC's and <4 images so they can learn and have fun doing so. 6-;

scalvert

Canon EOS-5D Mark III

Canon EF 24-105mm f/4.0L IS

06/02/2008 02:18:04 PM · #165

Originally posted by HawkeyeLonewolf:

I've only voted per the spirit and description of the theme.

You voted by the letter of the description, NOT the spirit of the theme (physical masks), and I'm just sayin' you might as well go all the way and fire off 1's for any entry that wasn't either elaborate or clean and simple. After all, that WAS what the description called for, and you claim to be going by the description. It would be hypocritical to follow the words in one part and ignore them in another. And, yes, slapping a 1 on a competent entry with an obvious mask in a Masks challenge IS a ruthless smackdown... essentially declaring it as inappropriate as a photo of an armadillo on roller skates. Except for a few with Special Rules, the challenge descriptions are a general guideline for the topic, not a checklist of specifics.

06/02/2008 02:19:22 PM · #166

Thank You... You know who you are...

06/02/2008 02:26:07 PM · #167

Originally posted by scalvert:

Originally posted by HawkeyeLonewolf:
I've only voted per the spirit and description of the theme.

You voted by the letter of the description, NOT the spirit of the theme (physical masks), and I'm just sayin' you might as well go all the way and fire off 1's for any entry that wasn't either elaborate or clean and simple. After all, that WAS what the description called for, and you claim to be going by the description. It would be hypocritical to follow the words in one part and ignore them in another. And, yes, slapping a 1 on a competent entry with an obvious mask in a Masks challenge IS a ruthless smackdown... essentially declaring it as inappropriate as a photo of an armadillo on roller skates. Except for a few with Special Rules, the challenge descriptions are a general guideline for the topic, not a checklist of specifics.

Then I hope the members of the SC have learned something from their mistake. Post that and make sure the descriptions are clearly worded as non-binding suggestions. And let the Armadillos on rollerskates be submitted.

Nikon AF-S NIKKOR 24-70mm f/2.8G ED

06/02/2008 02:26:46 PM · #168

Originally posted by Citadel:

Originally posted by HawkeyeLonewolf:

That's what being right will do for you. :)

Don't confuse obstinance with correctness.

Not mutually exclusive. I'm being obstinant BECAUSE I'm correct (in this case).

Citadel

Nikon D7500

06/02/2008 02:29:22 PM · #169

Originally posted by HawkeyeLonewolf:

Originally posted by Citadel:

Originally posted by HawkeyeLonewolf:

That's what being right will do for you. :)

Don't confuse obstinance with correctness.

Not mutually exclusive. I'm being obstinant BECAUSE I'm correct (in this case).

...in your opinion.

06/02/2008 02:30:03 PM · #170

Originally posted by Citadel:

Originally posted by HawkeyeLonewolf:

Originally posted by Citadel:

Originally posted by HawkeyeLonewolf:

That's what being right will do for you. :)

Don't confuse obstinance with correctness.

Not mutually exclusive. I'm being obstinant BECAUSE I'm correct (in this case).

...in your opinion.

Which again, is correct, in this case.

06/02/2008 02:30:44 PM · #171

Originally posted by HawkeyeLonewolf:

Then I hope the members of the SC have learned something from their mistake.

I see no mistake made at all by the SC, I only see someone who has found himself in a alone in a corner.

06/02/2008 02:30:58 PM · #172

guys let's just let it go...

06/02/2008 02:32:57 PM · #173

Originally posted by kiwiness:

Originally posted by HawkeyeLonewolf:
Then I hope the members of the SC have learned something from their mistake.

I see no mistake made at all by the SC, I only see someone who has found himself in a alone in a corner.

Enjoy your 1. Actually, I bumped it to a 2.