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11/05/2003 03:09:04 PM · #26 |
perhaps it's time to have two entry catetories on dpc...one for people who actually want a challenge and one for those that just want to fill the site with rubbish week after week. crab is totally right. people really need to take a look at past winning photos before hitting the submit button and reconsider whether their photo is worth the voters time. that sounds harsh but it's true...especially when you're trying to get my attention out of 330 other photos.
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11/05/2003 04:09:35 PM · #27 |
Originally posted by achiral:
perhaps it's time to have two entry catetories on dpc...one for people who actually want a challenge and one for those that just want to fill the site with rubbish week after week. crab is totally right. people really need to take a look at past winning photos before hitting the submit button and reconsider whether their photo is worth the voters time. that sounds harsh but it's true...especially when you're trying to get my attention out of 330 other photos. |
Not sure I completely agree. There are different skill levels and many people don't have the skill to pull a ribbon. But they should still submit. I do sort of agree that people need to think about a photo (light, composition, point(s) of interest, theme/message, ...) before taking a photo. Snapshots can be cool, but a challenge usually isn't the best place for them.
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11/05/2003 04:21:43 PM · #28 |
Originally posted by goodtempo:
I too am disappointed that people seem to be uploading just whatever. I also found myself giving extra points if the picture was actually a still life. For the first time I found myself giving 2's and 3's if the picture was not a still life, so I quit voting. It does seem to be a waste of time. |
I agree. I was just voting and I had to stop. There are way too many people out there who have no idea what a still life is. This could have been a cool challenge, but I too have been giving 3's and 4's to most of the pictures....Should I be curving my marks seeing as they are so low? |
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11/05/2003 04:27:19 PM · #29 |
First thing I think of when I think "still life" is a bowl of fruit, but I don't want to see 200 bowls of fruit. More originality = bonus points.
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11/05/2003 04:31:46 PM · #30 |
| This is crazy, how hard is it to look up still life in the dictionary? Anyone who knows anything about art (and if you're a photographer you should) should know that a still life is not a macro of a bug or a dog sitting still or a kid. If you're going to enter a challenge then please at least try to fit your photo in to the challenge, or else there's no point and we just have to waste our time giving 2's and 3's to shots that may not deserve that score but that have nothing to do with the challenge!! I'm sorry I just had to get this off my chest because I've never seen such unfitting pictures in a challenge before. I'm not claiming that my picture is better than anyone elses, but I just wish that there was more effort put in to this. I thought still life would have some amazing possibilities, but I've been proven wrong. |
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11/05/2003 04:45:54 PM · #31 |
Originally posted by Beagleboy:
I have never isued so many low scores for shots being totally off topic.
No whining please. Just read the challenge requirements before thinking of submitting an image.
If you have a good shot and it's off topic, don't submit it to a challenge. You leave yourself wide open to having it issued a ton of ones and twos. Place it in your portfolio, on DPC Prints or post it in one of the threads for comments/critique. |
I have a not-so-good photo which I believe meets the challenge definition on more than one level. Apparently, none of those interpretations inspires or meets the single mental image you seem to require to meet your (and a bunch of others') definition.
That's my style, and it's resulted in some quite low scores lately. I have no problem with people not liking the photos for subject matter, composition, or technical execution, but I get pretty bugged when I hear so many people decrying the general inability of the DPC community to submit pictures on-topic. I've contended that for every ten photos someone says is off-topic, I can find a valid relationship to the current challenge for 8 or 9 of them, even if they aren't mine.
All of my photos are, of course, 100% specifically and explicitly on-target if off-beat.
Message edited by author 2003-11-05 16:46:37. |
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11/05/2003 04:50:49 PM · #32 |
Originally posted by SkiJumpNose:
This is crazy, how hard is it to look up still life in the dictionary? ... I thought still life would have some amazing possibilities, but I've been proven wrong. |
Look up the word "still"
Look up the word "life"
Look up the word "art"
If the only way you can put these words together is to take a picture of a bowl of fruit lit softly from the side, then I think you are limiting yourself ...
BTW: you were "all over" my photo, so I know I'm on "the list." But thanks for leaving me a comment so I know something about what/why you disliked .... |
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11/05/2003 04:51:49 PM · #33 |
| Darn ... you all just made me think of an even better interpretation I don't think anyone did ... |
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11/05/2003 05:09:47 PM · #34 |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Originally posted by Beagleboy:
I have never isued so many low scores for shots being totally off topic.
No whining please. Just read the challenge requirements before thinking of submitting an image.
If you have a good shot and it's off topic, don't submit it to a challenge. You leave yourself wide open to having it issued a ton of ones and twos. Place it in your portfolio, on DPC Prints or post it in one of the threads for comments/critique. |
I have a not-so-good photo which I believe meets the challenge definition on more than one level. Apparently, none of those interpretations inspires or meets the single mental image you seem to require to meet your (and a bunch of others') definition.
That's my style, and it's resulted in some quite low scores lately. I have no problem with people not liking the photos for subject matter, composition, or technical execution, but I get pretty bugged when I hear so many people decrying the general inability of the DPC community to submit pictures on-topic. I've contended that for every ten photos someone says is off-topic, I can find a valid relationship to the current challenge for 8 or 9 of them, even if they aren't mine.
All of my photos are, of course, 100% specifically and explicitly on-target if off-beat. |
there is nothing at all wrong with one person saying here is my entry, it means "insert challenge topic here" to me. but this is a contest website. and attitudes like this that more or less thumb your nose at the challenge topic because everyone should be more open minded and free and all that hoo hah has degraded the majority of challenge entries into mush that just gets trampled on week after week. how is that good for dpchallenge? people aren't going to learn anything if they aren't challenged to do so. if the attitude that anything goes as long as YOU like it persists around here, there will be no reason for change, there will be no mass epiphany that needs to happen with regards to allowing more editing, and finally there won't be as many good photographers submitting and contributing their votes and critiques when they have to sift through 200 questionable photos every week.
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11/05/2003 05:13:00 PM · #35 |
Well, gosh!
In defense of those of us who (apparently) completely misinterpreted the challenge: I'm not a dimwit. I know and understand the definition of still life. I chose what I considered to be an interpretation of the term itself, and my entry included an animate creature. It was very much a calculated risk.
This is the first entry I've made on DPChallenge, and I'm fine with receiving a low score for my entry (though I'd love to get some constructive feedback via comments -- 0 so far). I want this to be a learning experience for me in general (beyond the scope of this challenge), and I'm willing to take the punches that come from people interpreting the theme strictly and finding my photo off-theme. That's all fine. But don't assume that I just uploaded some crap from my desktop just to have something. The picture I took was with the challenge in mind, but taken with my own interpretation of the theme. Next time, I'll know what not to do. |
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11/05/2003 06:18:13 PM · #36 |
The one thing I find MOST disturbing about this whole thread is that there are several people complaining about low scores, and with 329 entries, at least 2 people had finished voing after only 14 hours and 48 minutes... How much time did you give to any of these images?
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11/05/2003 06:25:10 PM · #37 |
Well I'm "complaining" but haven't started actually voting yet ...
What if the challenge had been "give us your interpretation of the phrase 'still life' -- you may shoot any subject except a bowl of fruit or flowers." To me, that is more true to the intent of the idea of a "challenge" where we are instructed to "be creative." |
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11/05/2003 06:36:42 PM · #38 |
Originally posted by toocool:
The one thing I find MOST disturbing about this whole thread is that there are several people complaining about low scores, and with 329 entries, at least 2 people had finished voing after only 14 hours and 48 minutes... How much time did you give to any of these images? |
That would be about 2 and a half minutes for each photo. More than enough. Okay so some people don't vote for 14hrs 48min non-stop. let's half that to 7 hours. 1 min 15 secs for each photo. 7 hours is sill enough. 3 and a half hours? about 30 seconds or something. So, for members of the "30 second club" it would only take about 3-4 hours to vote. The challenge starts in the middle of the day for some people, and having 3-4 hours free isn't all that unusual. They could take loads of breaks and still easily finish in the 14 hours you stated. I personally like to do all my voting in 1 chunk so I know I'm being fair. I know that my mood can effect what scores I give photos because I'm only human, so I like to be consistant over the whole bunch. Personally, I don't even spend 30 seconds on voting for a photo. I vote in about 5 seconds max. It doesnt take me anymore time than that to know if I like a photo or not. That's what I mark on, whether I like it. I don't take into account how difficult the shot was to do, I don't take into account how perfect the lighting is or isnt. If I don't like it, I dont give it a high mark. If I have to look for a long time in a photo for something I like, then it has failed my criteria. That's just the way I do it, call me a troll if you like. Voting on this challenge would probably take me about half an hour, 40 mins tops. I don't see anything wrong with 2 people having finished within 14 hours :)
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11/05/2003 06:38:19 PM · #39 |
There are also some cases in there of classic still life subjects, such as fruit or flowers, where people have managed to be very creative indeed.
If an entry is clearly within the challenge, and has then interpreted it in an exciting or different way, it will certainly get a bonus from me.
I like off beat, but also within the challenge personally. Where I can't get the topic, I ask the person rather than assume they have missed the challenge and I know better.
There will be occasions where I don't bother, for instance if someone entered a speeding car, motion blur and all, and that was all that was there, I might decide it was too far off "still life" to bother with, but generally I check.
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11/05/2003 06:46:33 PM · #40 |
When the challenge was announced, I consulted a few photographic books I've got lying around - not because I had any doubts about the meaning of still life, but just to try to find some inspiration for my own photo.
In the book "Hedgecoe on Photography" there is a long section on still life, which quite remarkably includes many pages of portraits and even some sport photos. Yet in another book he does state that still life refers to inanimate objects. I can't help wondering whose mistake this was. And what is some contributors here had access to just that one book? It could account for some of the unsuitable entries in this challenge. |
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11/05/2003 06:53:45 PM · #41 |
I know what you are saying there Gina.
When I saw "still life" as a topic my first thought was "great, nobody can "misinterpret" that one". Then I stopped and thought more, and realised I didn't know where the boundary lay. I started a discussion topin to try and get it clear in my head, and that again showed it was not as straight forward as I initially thought.
There are still a couple of photos there that I can't se how any interpretarion could in any way say "still" as they are literally action photos, full of movement. Maybe those people did see a definition like in that book.
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11/05/2003 06:55:52 PM · #42 |
What did the book say alongside the seemingly non-still life photos? It would be interesting to find out how the author thought it was a still life and what his/her definition actually is.
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11/05/2003 07:07:18 PM · #43 |
Originally posted by toocool:
The one thing I find MOST disturbing about this whole thread is that there are several people complaining about low scores, and with 329 entries, at least 2 people had finished voing after only 14 hours and 48 minutes... How much time did you give to any of these images? |
About 30 seconds to 1 minute each. I have a high speed connection, can get through the images rather quickly. On challenges of this magnitude (more than 150) that is how I do it, then I go back to the lowest scoring, re-evaluate my original score and leave comments as to why I left said score or why I might have increased it. I already got one comment back explaining how the shot was taken and why it came out the way it did. They didn't think they deserved the 3 I gave them and I might raise it before I'm done but for now, that is what I felt about the shot.
My photo does not include any living object like a person, cat or such but it also is not fruit/wine/cheese/flowers or any other of the "normal" objects most people consider in a still life shot. And I'm paying for that with a score running below 5 and going lower almost every time the page refreshes but you know what? I personally don't give a rats behind because I know it's a good shot, I know it meets the challenge by definition of the word Still Life and I know I did good this time regardless.
Deannda
I showed my shot to three friends, asking them what type of shot and they all came back with "still life" SO THERE! :-P |
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11/05/2003 07:17:37 PM · #44 |
Originally posted by Konador:
What did the book say alongside the seemingly non-still life photos? It would be interesting to find out how the author thought it was a still life and what his/her definition actually is. |
I actually suspect the error was on the part of the publisher. The author seems to make no reference to still life on these pages - it's just a small heading at the top of each page that causes the confusion.
I reread my previous post and wasn't quite clear when I stated that the same author referred to still life as inanimate objects in a different book. |
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11/05/2003 07:20:21 PM · #45 |
Originally posted by Neuferland:
I showed my shot to three friends, asking them what type of shot and they all came back with "still life" SO THERE! :-P |
That fits perfectly into my theory :)
Show a pic to someone who does not know the challenge and ask them to word associate. If you have an entry for, say, Grace, and nobody does a word even close to Grace after 100 attempts, you can be pretty sure that voters will miss it as well, even if in your mind it fits.
Rather than direct word association, I think your approach there Deannda is great, your friends have indeed given an answer than demonstrates that others will see your photo as "still life". I look forward to seeing which your is in a week :)
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11/05/2003 08:04:15 PM · #46 |
I must admit that I'm one of the many who have uploaded a non classic still life image to the still life category.
Literally speaking though, 'still life' should translate to a frozen impression of life - so can surely be an animate object? I think the whole boundary issue within art is becoming more blurred these days - take a look at the Turner Art competition in the UK as an example.
I can understand someone being slated for adding an image with no shadows to a 'shadows' challenge, but the whole still life debate to me is unresolved. Unless of course you want to base all your impressions of art and definitions from old art/photography books? Surely we should be pushing the boundary here as creatives?
To me (personally) saying that 'still life' should only be an inanimate object is an oxymoron.
That said, I'm not at all bothered if I get low ratings for my submission as I'm just glad to for the opportunity to have a photograph viewed and commented on by other enthusiasts.
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11/05/2003 10:07:51 PM · #47 |
What is that???? Comments like "makes me waste my time" or "The majority of the images are mediocre at best and alot are just downright awful"????? Most of the entries I'm sure are done with personal impression of still-life. To me, the only thing to do then is to vote low and to gently comment pics in a positive manner.
Am I misunderstanding the essence of DPC or what? This site isn't about democratic voting and people trying to improve their photographs? Why so many rude comments????????????
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11/05/2003 10:11:18 PM · #48 |
| Hey, it took me almost 130 challenges to actually cop a completely last place finish -- if you think I'm going to abandon that hard-won territory without a fight ... |
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11/05/2003 10:14:54 PM · #49 |
it's more a gripe about every challenge being basically an open challenge for a lot of people...they basically submit whatever they want because they feel like that's what the challenge topic means to them....that's not challenging at all. trying to do an effective still life means learning exposure, lighting, composition, all basic tools of photography. but no, some people take a picture of a sunset, which is in no way still life. and it is a democratic voting system, which is why all these people get low scores. i'm not excluding myself from this because i have submitted my share of rubbish...but it's the consistant week after by the same people that makes me wonder whether a lot of people here even care about a challenge or just want to shoot whatever and then whine all week about low scores
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11/05/2003 10:17:45 PM · #50 |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Hey, it took me almost 130 challenges to actually cop a completely last place finish -- if you think I'm going to abandon that hard-won territory without a fight ... |
lol i've been there many times. i think what it comes down to is this is a challenge site, we can all look at photos and see what it takes to win challenges here. wouldn't logic say that people would look at what is successful and work to at least emulate styles and themes, techniques and processes that have been proven to produce high quality photos? i just don't get all the rebellion against the idea of a narrow view of a challenge topic
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