| Author | Thread |
|
|
05/27/2008 01:22:00 PM · #126 |
Originally posted by hopper:
I think this should weigh heavily in your actions ... wise words.
Originally posted by Strikeslip:
I'd like to let my daughter just forget about it. |
|
Wherever this leads, I won't have her involved any more. :-)
|
|
|
|
05/27/2008 01:33:12 PM · #127 |
Originally posted by Simms:
I still stand by my belief that a little corporal punishment for kids if administered in a controlled fashion and not dealt out willy nilly is not a bad thing, does not mean you have failed as a parent and will not mentally scar your kids.
Look at me, I was slapped as a kid and I am as rational as the next man... :) |
That's a point of some debate, but in any case, it's not up to any adult other than the parents to decide if corporal punishment is OK.
As to your normality, well... |
|
|
|
05/27/2008 02:47:32 PM · #128 |
Originally posted by Strikeslip:
Originally posted by jhonan:
Originally posted by Strikeslip:
I also guess we'll either be hearing back form the principal, or have to contact her to follow up. As far as I'm concerned, the teacher and the principal are on the same team, so I don't trust the system. |
You can trust that it has minimised the chances of your daughter breaking her neck falling out of a tree. |
We let her climb trees at parks and her grandparents' house. If we had a climbable tree in our yard she could climb it too, but she still has a lot of fun with her sister on a climber in our back yard. She has biceps and a six pack that my wife and I envy. I climbed trees, and my father climbed trees. Our necks are all intact. You, however, should stuff your kids safely under a rock. |
I didn't elicit your opinion on my child's upbringing, thanks anyway. This is your thread, you're the one looking for feedback on how to raise your kids, not me. |
|
|
|
05/27/2008 03:15:53 PM · #129 |
Originally posted by jhonan:
....snip....
you're the one looking for feedback on how to raise your kids, not me. |
...no I'm not, that's a silly ASSumption...
Message edited by author 2008-05-27 15:39:16.
|
|
|
|
05/27/2008 03:43:45 PM · #130 |
Originally posted by jhonan:
Originally posted by Strikeslip:
Originally posted by jhonan:
Originally posted by Strikeslip:
I also guess we'll either be hearing back form the principal, or have to contact her to follow up. As far as I'm concerned, the teacher and the principal are on the same team, so I don't trust the system. |
You can trust that it has minimised the chances of your daughter breaking her neck falling out of a tree. |
We let her climb trees at parks and her grandparents' house. If we had a climbable tree in our yard she could climb it too, but she still has a lot of fun with her sister on a climber in our back yard. She has biceps and a six pack that my wife and I envy. I climbed trees, and my father climbed trees. Our necks are all intact. You, however, should stuff your kids safely under a rock. |
I didn't elicit your opinion on my child's upbringing, thanks anyway. This is your thread, you're the one looking for feedback on how to raise your kids, not me. |
actually I was the one who bought up the entire subject of raising children... dont let slippy take the abuse credit for that. |
|
|
|
05/27/2008 03:47:11 PM · #131 |
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
That's a point of some debate, but in any case, it's not up to any adult other than the parents to decide if corporal punishment is OK. |
In any other context, assaulting an individual, even in the least painful and least humiliating of ways (a shove on the street corner, for example), would be grounds for prosecution. It's a reflection on the baseness of our North American culture that adults are allowed to assault children, with absolutely no oversight or controls, in the name of correcting their behaviour. As with many other countries, Canada and the US must stop the madness. |
|
|
|
05/27/2008 03:54:23 PM · #132 |
Originally posted by Louis:
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
That's a point of some debate, but in any case, it's not up to any adult other than the parents to decide if corporal punishment is OK. |
In any other context, assaulting an individual, even in the least painful and least humiliating of ways (a shove on the street corner, for example), would be grounds for prosecution. It's a reflection on the baseness of our North American culture that adults are allowed to assault children, with absolutely no oversight or controls, in the name of correcting their behaviour. As with many other countries, Canada and the US must stop the madness. |
LOL, I would hardly call smacking my childs legs `assault`, yes the lawyers will argue it, and no doubt you will spout your usual rhetoric and pick the whole thing apart.
Saying that, I CAN see what your argument is, what divides the line between discplining your child and assaulting them, whilst the more level-headed members of society (yes, that includes me) will know where that line is drawn, you will get a certain underclass who will beat a child black and blue then say "I thought we was allowed to smack our kids", its a hard balancing act, but if one applies a certain amount of Common Sense (those two words again) then one just `knows` what the boundaries are.
Lets get something straight, I dont get any pleasure out of discipling my kids, whether it be `early to bed` or a grounding or even a smack on the legs. I *ALWAYS* feel a certain amount of guilt and self-loathing, even for the `early bedtime` punishment.. However, then I look at the kids out on the street who have had no boundaries and no discipline in their life (not at home, not allowed to be disciplined at school) and have no fear of the police as they can't be touched, and then I kind of feel that maybe a bit of punishment aint such a bad thing..
but I still feel bad.. they are my kids..
Message edited by author 2008-05-27 15:56:21. |
|
|
|
05/27/2008 04:15:05 PM · #133 |
Originally posted by Strikeslip:
Originally posted by jhonan:
....snip....
you're the one looking for feedback on how to raise your kids, not me. |
...no I'm not, that's a silly ASSumption... |
You should stuff your ass safely under a rock. |
|
|
|
05/27/2008 04:37:43 PM · #134 |
Originally posted by jhonan:
Originally posted by Strikeslip:
Originally posted by jhonan:
....snip....
you're the one looking for feedback on how to raise your kids, not me. |
...no I'm not, that's a silly ASSumption... |
You should stuff your ass safely under a rock. |
|
|
|
|
05/27/2008 04:49:27 PM · #135 |
Originally posted by Strikeslip:
Originally posted by jhonan:
Originally posted by Strikeslip:
Originally posted by jhonan:
....snip....
you're the one looking for feedback on how to raise your kids, not me. |
...no I'm not, that's a silly ASSumption... |
You should stuff your ass safely under a rock. |
|
 |
|
|
|
05/27/2008 05:11:11 PM · #136 |
Holy crap!!! That is absolutely horrible!! The way the teacher handled that was very unprofessional. I know in our school district parents can request that their child not have a particular teacher. If there's a good enough reason the request is usually ok'd. My mom still teaches and says they have kids bounce around between her department all the time.
I can definitely relate. Something similar happened to me when I was in the 3rd grade. My teacher didn't like me because she's prejudiced. I was one of the top students in the school, but she treated me like crap and I ended up having her again in the 4th grade. I obviously survived, but the hurtful things and the way she treated me, never went away. |
|
|
|
05/27/2008 05:15:07 PM · #137 |
Originally posted by Simms:
Originally posted by Louis:
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
That's a point of some debate, but in any case, it's not up to any adult other than the parents to decide if corporal punishment is OK. |
In any other context, assaulting an individual, even in the least painful and least humiliating of ways (a shove on the street corner, for example), would be grounds for prosecution. It's a reflection on the baseness of our North American culture that adults are allowed to assault children, with absolutely no oversight or controls, in the name of correcting their behaviour. As with many other countries, Canada and the US must stop the madness. |
LOL, I would hardly call smacking my childs legs `assault`, yes the lawyers will argue it, and no doubt you will spout your usual rhetoric and pick the whole thing apart.
Saying that, I CAN see what your argument is, what divides the line between discplining your child and assaulting them, whilst the more level-headed members of society (yes, that includes me) will know where that line is drawn, you will get a certain underclass who will beat a child black and blue then say "I thought we was allowed to smack our kids", its a hard balancing act, but if one applies a certain amount of Common Sense (those two words again) then one just `knows` what the boundaries are.
Lets get something straight, I dont get any pleasure out of discipling my kids, whether it be `early to bed` or a grounding or even a smack on the legs. I *ALWAYS* feel a certain amount of guilt and self-loathing, even for the `early bedtime` punishment.. However, then I look at the kids out on the street who have had no boundaries and no discipline in their life (not at home, not allowed to be disciplined at school) and have no fear of the police as they can't be touched, and then I kind of feel that maybe a bit of punishment aint such a bad thing..
but I still feel bad.. they are my kids.. |
It's your decision to "smack" your kids or allow others to do so in your absence as part of their punishment. Whether corporal punishment is appropriate for another's child is not for you to say.
Would you allow such a thing to happen if your decision was otherwise?
What if a school official decided to cane your child while their peers watched? That's still corporal punishment.
|
|
|
|
05/27/2008 06:05:19 PM · #138 |
Originally posted by Louis:
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
That's a point of some debate, but in any case, it's not up to any adult other than the parents to decide if corporal punishment is OK. |
In any other context, assaulting an individual, even in the least painful and least humiliating of ways (a shove on the street corner, for example), would be grounds for prosecution. It's a reflection on the baseness of our North American culture that adults are allowed to assault children, with absolutely no oversight or controls, in the name of correcting their behaviour. As with many other countries, Canada and the US must stop the madness. |
By this argument, would grounding be prosecutable as either kidnapping or false imprisonment?
|
|
|
|
05/27/2008 06:31:47 PM · #139 |
| just to clarify so this thread doesn't go wildly off topic -- in Canada, it is a defence to assault if the victim is the child of the accused and the assault is reasonable discipline. |
|
|
|
05/27/2008 06:37:06 PM · #140 |
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
Originally posted by Louis:
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
That's a point of some debate, but in any case, it's not up to any adult other than the parents to decide if corporal punishment is OK. |
In any other context, assaulting an individual, even in the least painful and least humiliating of ways (a shove on the street corner, for example), would be grounds for prosecution. It's a reflection on the baseness of our North American culture that adults are allowed to assault children, with absolutely no oversight or controls, in the name of correcting their behaviour. As with many other countries, Canada and the US must stop the madness. |
By this argument, would grounding be prosecutable as either kidnapping or false imprisonment? |
I have no opinion, but striking an individual with the intent to cause harm is assault, irrespective of age and relationship. It is this recognition that makes it illegal in most European countries, and explains why Canadian law has made overtures to making it illegal. |
|
|
|
05/27/2008 06:42:55 PM · #141 |
Originally posted by frisca:
just to clarify so this thread doesn't go wildly off topic -- in Canada, it is a defence to assault if the victim is the child of the accused and the assault is reasonable discipline. |
I like to think of it as natural-progressing of the original subject. I love arguments conversations that are organic like this and gently evolve and branch into other, albeit related, trains of discussion..
Which leads me seamlessly onto... anyone going to be watching the season finale of LOST this week? |
|
|
|
05/27/2008 06:43:54 PM · #142 |
Originally posted by Louis:
I have no opinion, but striking an individual with the intent to cause harm is assault, irrespective of age and relationship. It is this recognition that makes it illegal in most European countries, and explains why Canadian law has made overtures to making it illegal. |
Which European countries are those then?
UK? Holland? Poland? Romania? Malta? Italy? Czech Republic?
Oh, you mean France..
Message edited by author 2008-05-27 18:46:26. |
|
|
|
05/27/2008 06:48:05 PM · #143 |
From Wikipedia link posted previously...
The practice has been banned in Austria, Bulgaria, Chile, Croatia, Cyprus, Denmark, Finland, Germany, Greece, Hungary, Iceland, Israel, Italy, Latvia, Norway, Portugal, Romania, Spain, Sweden, the Netherlands, Ukraine,[2] Uruguay, Venezuela and New Zealand.[22]
Message edited by author 2008-05-27 18:49:27. |
|
|
|
05/27/2008 06:49:54 PM · #144 |
Originally posted by Simms:
Originally posted by Louis:
I have no opinion, but striking an individual with the intent to cause harm is assault, irrespective of age and relationship. It is this recognition that makes it illegal in most European countries, and explains why Canadian law has made overtures to making it illegal. |
Which European countries are those then?
UK? Holland? Poland? Romania? Malta? Italy? Czech Republic?
Oh, you mean France.. |
Austria, Bulgaria, Croatia, Cyprus, Denmark, Finland, Germany, Greece, Hungary, Iceland, Italy, Latvia, Norway, Portugal, Romania, Spain, Sweden, the Netherlands,and the Ukraine (source).
EDIT: I missed France and Sweden.
~Terry
Message edited by author 2008-05-27 18:52:03.
|
|
|
|
05/27/2008 06:50:55 PM · #145 |
| YES! I won the post the countries race! |
|
|
|
05/27/2008 06:52:18 PM · #146 |
Originally posted by ClubJuggle:
Originally posted by Simms:
Originally posted by Louis:
I have no opinion, but striking an individual with the intent to cause harm is assault, irrespective of age and relationship. It is this recognition that makes it illegal in most European countries, and explains why Canadian law has made overtures to making it illegal. |
Which European countries are those then?
UK? Holland? Poland? Romania? Malta? Italy? Czech Republic?
Oh, you mean France.. |
Austria, Bulgaria, Croatia, Cyprus, Denmark, Finland, Germany, Greece, Hungary, Iceland, Italy, Latvia, Norway, Portugal, Romania, Spain, Sweden, the Netherlands,and the Ukraine (source).
~Terry |
So obvious that was going to happen.
Message edited by author 2008-05-27 18:53:29. |
|
|
|
05/27/2008 06:52:20 PM · #147 |
Originally posted by Louis:
I have no opinion, but striking an individual with the intent to cause harm is assault, irrespective of age and relationship. It is this recognition that makes it illegal in most European countries, and explains why Canadian law has made overtures to making it illegal. |
I bolded the above because this, of course, makes all the difference in the world. A parent who spanks their child, one would hope, is not intending to cause harm.
I'll go on the record to say we have rarely, if ever, felt the need to spank our children. However, I do think the baby often gets thrown out with the bathwater in many of these arguments. If we are drawing the analogy between spanking and assault then one must also draw the analogy between grounding and false imprisonment. If "in any other context" you wrote above means any context other than the parent/child relationship, then I would say the analogy for grounding holds. What would we think about an adult telling a child they are not related to "you can't leave this room except for meals and to go to the bathroom"? And if we must conclude that grounding is analogous to false imprisonment, then a) does it indicate that raising the spanking/assault argument is not helpful? and b) what punishment options are left the parent that does not have some sort of criminal counterpart in the real world?
|
|
|
|
05/27/2008 06:52:40 PM · #148 |
Originally posted by JMart:
YES! I won the post the countries race! |
Right, but he asked which countries in Europe, so I took a minute to edit out the non-European countries. ;-)
~Terry
|
|
|
|
05/27/2008 06:52:58 PM · #149 |
I'm not a parent and don't really have an intent to be. That said, I believe it should be up to a parent how to raise their own offspring. If the OP was not aware and did not approve of the "guidance" of teacher then the teacher and possibly the school were in the wrong by not making those methods clear to the parent before using them.
Making them clear to the child does not matter as the child is not responsible for their guidance and upbringing. Further complicating the matter though is parents don't get to choose their public schools, nor is enrollment optional, so given this the parent should be the final word about the guidance given to their child while at school.
Private schools are no answer because parents should not need to spend extra money just to ensure their child is guided the same during the day as during the evening. Of course everyone knows a schools only purpose is to train a child to be a properly behaved wage slave, while a parents purpose is to give their child the best possible life and best possible future.
Of course this is all just my opinion but I had to share my thoughts, enjoy! :)
|
|
|
|
05/27/2008 06:55:22 PM · #150 |
Originally posted by ClubJuggle:
Originally posted by JMart:
YES! I won the post the countries race! |
Right, but he asked which countries in Europe, so I took a minute to edit out the non-European countries. ;-)
~Terry |
Doh! I was hoping you wouldn't notice that :P |
|
