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 05/18/2008 10:28:16 PM · #1
What type of sharpening is best?

Unsharp Mask or High Pass?

When I say best I mean for both web and print. And what do I need to do differently for print vs. web?

Thanks so much!
 05/18/2008 10:53:10 PM · #2
That's kind of like asking what kind of food is best.

Both the type and degree of sharpening are dependent on both the content and size of the image, as well as the intended use. There is no one-size fits all, though I personally stick to various applications of USM, and I know there are occasions where something else might work better.
 05/18/2008 10:56:22 PM · #3
Another trick I've learned is to duplicate the layer, run the high pass filter on the top layer. Set the layer mode to soft light. Then add a black layer mask and selectively paint in the areas in the mask in white that I want sharpened. Not valid in basic here, but still a cool way to selectively sharpen.
 05/18/2008 11:53:09 PM · #4
Like what was said it, depends on the image. I normally use Smart Sharpen but if that doesn't look good then I'll do a High Pass. I don't use USM any more since that can be accomplished with more control via Smart Sharpen.

This is what I typically start out with if using Smart Sharpen:

For DPC (640px/720px on the long side):

Radius = 0.3
Amount = 100-400%
Shadow and Highlights both set to Fade Amount = 50%, Tonal Width = 50% and Radius = 1.
Remove = Lens Blur

For Print:

Same settings except Radius = 1.3
I also view the image at 25% when gauging it's sharpness unlike the small version which I'll view at 100%.

For stringy detail areas like blades of grass, hair, etc, I'll usually selectively sharpen those areas via a mask. To avoid halos on images with lots of stringy detail I use something other than bicubic sharper when resizing as that creates halos. If halos are present due to sharpening or other editing I'll try and remove them with the clone tool especially the most glaring halos set against a near solid color such as a sky. Just set it to either Lighten or Darken depending on the type of halo (dark or light respectively) and the halo comes right off without effecting any other detail. For example, if you have blades of grass with light halos around it set the clone tool to darken and then sample the area in the background near the grass and then start cloning right over the grass. Only the halos should get removed leaving the grass untouched. Works great for removing halos around windows too or anything set against patches of light or dark tones.

Message edited by author 2008-05-18 23:55:14.
 05/19/2008 02:19:46 PM · #5
...Ok, but basically what everyone is also saying is that print sharpening should be considerably more than "for web" sharpening?

If it looks like it's too much on the screen, will it probably be just right for print?
 05/19/2008 02:31:37 PM · #6
Originally posted by GeneralE:
That's kind of like asking what kind of food is best.

Beer.
 05/19/2008 02:49:56 PM · #7
Originally posted by jhonan:
Originally posted by GeneralE:
That's kind of like asking what kind of food is best.

Beer.

Bitter, to be precise.
 05/19/2008 03:00:50 PM · #8
Originally posted by yanko:
I don't use USM any more since that can be accomplished with more control via Smart Sharpen.


I still haven't graduated. :(

What I miss in Smart Sharpen is the masking. You can turn adjust the fade on highlight and shadow ... and I think that's really cool ... but why did they leave out threshold? It's seems like adding threshold would make smart sharpen even smarter.


05/19/2008 03:16:10 PM · #9
Originally posted by SaraR:
Originally posted by jhonan:
Originally posted by GeneralE:
That's kind of like asking what kind of food is best.

Beer.

Bitter, to be precise.


Broadside to be even more particular.
 05/19/2008 03:22:49 PM · #10
Originally posted by Mr_Pants:
Originally posted by SaraR:
Originally posted by jhonan:
Originally posted by GeneralE:
That's kind of like asking what kind of food is best.

Beer.

Bitter, to be precise.


Broadside to be even more particular.

Adnams? I seem to remember drinking that when visiting my daughter down in Cambridge. It was ok - pretty good for a Southern Brewery! But really Southern bitter is just a pale imitation of the true stuff you get in Yorkshire.
 05/19/2008 03:30:31 PM · #11
Originally posted by SaraR:
Originally posted by Mr_Pants:
Originally posted by SaraR:
Originally posted by jhonan:
Originally posted by GeneralE:
That's kind of like asking what kind of food is best.

Beer.

Bitter, to be precise.


Broadside to be even more particular.

Adnams? I seem to remember drinking that when visiting my daughter down in Cambridge. It was ok - pretty good for a Southern Brewery! But really Southern bitter is just a pale imitation of the true stuff you get in Yorkshire.


Ouch!
 05/19/2008 03:43:51 PM · #12
Is Smart sharpen legal in basic?
 05/19/2008 03:46:12 PM · #13
Originally posted by figaro:
Is Smart sharpen legal in basic?


yes...
 05/19/2008 04:08:02 PM · #14
Originally posted by KevinG:
...Ok, but basically what everyone is also saying is that print sharpening should be considerably more than "for web" sharpening?

If it looks like it's too much on the screen, will it probably be just right for print?

It is dependent on the size of the image, and print images are usually much larger than bthose destined for web display.

All sharpening filters in some way detect and modify areas where pixels of distinctly different tones adjoin. In small images those places are likely to be closer -- separated by fewer pixels. An element you might wish to sharpen -- say a rope slung over water -- in a DPC entry-sized image might be 3-4 pixels across, whereas in a 16x20 print image that same rope might now be 30 pixels thick.

For all images, check your final sharpening in critical areas at 100% view. Your next best options are 50% and 25% -- other zoom levels can introduce display artifacts which will affect your judgement.
 05/19/2008 06:31:24 PM · #15
Originally posted by dwterry:
What I miss in Smart Sharpen is the masking. You can turn adjust the fade on highlight and shadow ... and I think that's really cool ... but why did they leave out threshold? It's seems like adding threshold would make smart sharpen even smarter.


True and that's probably why many still use unsharp mask for that threshold setting which fine tunes what that "edge" is before the sharpening takes place. I just find that I almost never apply sharpening of any kind 100% of what the filter gives me or apply uniformly (basic challenges not withstanding). Almost everything is selectively applied and massaged into the image so for me I find that edge a different way and therefore don't need that threshold setting. I should say I do use on occassion USM for applying local contrast enhancement (i.e. high radius).
05/19/2008 06:35:13 PM · #16
Originally posted by bucket:
Originally posted by figaro:
Is Smart sharpen legal in basic?


yes...


Thanks Rob!
 05/19/2008 08:33:43 PM · #17
Originally posted by KevinG:
What type of sharpening is best?

Unsharp Mask or High Pass?

Great question but the way you put it presupposes there are only two ways to sharpen. There is a lot more to it. Sharpening is an art form.

First, even before you chose a method you need to know when you will apply sharpening. You could do pre-sharpening on the full sized image prior to any post processing, sharpening after post processing but before resizing, sharpening during resizing and sharpening after resizing. Sharpen after resize is the most common form of sharpening. You won't need to do all these things with every image.

At each of these junctures you might choose from numerous methodologies I won't even get into. Each one of those would have their own settings. Your best bet is to keep it simple. :)

The advantage of Smart Sharpen (SS) and the reason I use it is that it allows you to apply different levels of sharpening to the highlights than you do with the shadows. Most images seem to tolerate a lot more sharpening of shadows than they do highlights.

Yanko's Smart Sharpen recommendations make a great starting point. If you want to apply differing levels of sharpening to shadows from highlights then experiment from his starting point.

Related to sharpening is resizing images because that affects sharpening. You normally want to resize with "bicubic sharper" when going smaller and with "bicubic smoother" when enlarging. But that isn't etched in stone. Those algorythms do such a good job that I've completely replaced the the 3rd party resize tool I used to use for making big enlargements.

It is best to sharpen as best you can before applying selective sharpening. Some folks like to apply selective sharpening through masks or using the sharpen/blur tools. Each could be used depending on the specifics of the individual image at the time. I prefer masks because they are non-destructive but I don't save any sharpening in the master file anyway so it does not matter as much. I'll dab with the sharpen or blur tools every once in a while if it is something minor.

Some folks do "wide" sharpening at the end with a small amount like 25% and wide radius like 40 pixels on web graphics to add more depth and body to an image.

There are all kinds of things you can do. :) :)
 05/19/2008 08:57:34 PM · #18
Originally posted by yanko:
I don't use USM any more since that can be accomplished with more control via Smart Sharpen.


I am curious about this since the amount and radius sliders in this tool work like they do in USM and exactly the same if the mode is set to gaussian blur. But there is no threshold slider in this tool so you cannot limit the sharpening to areas of more pronounced detail.
 05/19/2008 09:06:07 PM · #19
Originally posted by CEJ:
I am curious about this since the amount and radius sliders in this tool work like they do in USM and exactly the same if the mode is set to gaussian blur. But there is no threshold slider in this tool so you cannot limit the sharpening to areas of more pronounced detail.


For years, Levels and Curves were two separate things. When they finally combined them into one dialog I shouted for joy. They could get me "almost" as excited by adding Threshold to Smart Sharpen. Well, at least half as excited....


05/19/2008 10:44:27 PM · #20
I like Lab Color sharpening. I find I can apply a little more usm (or smart sharpen) to the image.
 05/19/2008 11:12:22 PM · #21
Originally posted by cloudsme:
I like Lab Color sharpening. I find I can apply a little more usm (or smart sharpen) to the image.


And it's good to know why... if you've ever noticed a color tinge to some of the sharpening artifacts, that's because the USM sharpening is being applied to each of the RGB channels. But in Lab mode, you're applying the sharpening to the lightness channel so there is no color, and therefore no color side effect.

(you probably already know this but I thought I'd point it out for others wondering why they might choose Lab sharpening)

05/19/2008 11:33:51 PM · #22
Originally posted by dwterry:
Originally posted by cloudsme:
I like Lab Color sharpening. I find I can apply a little more usm (or smart sharpen) to the image.


And it's good to know why... if you've ever noticed a color tinge to some of the sharpening artifacts, that's because the USM sharpening is being applied to each of the RGB channels. But in Lab mode, you're applying the sharpening to the lightness channel so there is no color, and therefore no color side effect.

(you probably already know this but I thought I'd point it out for others wondering why they might choose Lab sharpening)


Two more things you can do in Lab mode sharpening:
* Large radius (40-80) sharpening of the L channel adds "pop" or local contrast, just like the Clarity setting in Lightroom.
* Very large radius (80-250) sharpening of the ab channels adds color contrast, for an almost comic-book effect that's very hard to get any other way
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