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05/10/2008 07:56:01 AM · #26 |
You've gotten some thoughts on many facets of this scenario. I have found that it's best, as someone suggested to always use a little foresight, and have a plan to exit any remote locale you may be in just for safety's sake.
Yes, it just may be an isolated loudmouth incident, but what if it's not?
If you have already figured out a way to safely back away from an uncomfortable situation, you'll live to see another day.
I don't advocate trying to plan for the weird and crazy in every case, but if you know you may be somewhere unfamiliar in plain view of anyone, just think ahead a little.
There is no image worth a possible confrontation with a psycho, and there will be other shots down the road.
I never get confrontational with someone who decides, for whatever reason, to hassle me about my photography, I just leave and go somewhere else.
It doesn't happen very often, in spite of my curiosity and desire to be unusual places.....I do spend time and effort to get permission to shoot whenever and wherever I can.......usually just the fact that I've had the consideration to ask gets me in to a lot of places that you'd think were unavailable to photographers.
I also take "No" for an answer and try again at another time.
The bottom line is to not take something like this personally......it probably wasn't you, but him, and whatever inspired this guy to confront you most likely had nothing to do with you......and you're here to tell the story, and shoot some other time, some other place.
And a phone, if you're by yourself, is ALWAYS a good idea.
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05/10/2008 09:11:31 AM · #27 |
This sounds like a case of The Random Idiot Factor to me. Whenever a Random Idiot sees something he's not used to, it is immediately processed in the Idiot Centre of his brain. The Idiot Centre causes the Random Idiot to yell something out. It could be "Fuck You!", "Hey Asshole!", "YeeeeHaaah!", or any sort of unintilligible gibberish. The Idiot Centre also controls the Middle-Finger-Function of the Random Idiot. The Idiot Centre is usually only operational while the Random Idiot is driving a vehicle, giving him a sense of personal safety.
Please, don't be offended by the Random Idiot. He is simply trying to deal with something he isn't used to, and the Idiot Centre of his brain is just reacting as an involuntary reflex. The Random Idiot has no control over this.
He will continue to drive away and yell at and flip off the next thing he sees which is unusual to him.
:-)
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05/10/2008 09:24:20 AM · #28 |
I donno man, maybe you just misunderstood the guy... Since he slowed down, and yelled, maybe he was saying "Am I in your way? Are you done? Can I go now?" and pointing the road ahead of him... I don't think anyone would do such a thing just because you are taking photos. Now knowing you better, It could be only you just panicked seeing someone actually interacting with you... and took it to wrong way, and it's possible.
But if not, you don't have to be worry. Think about this, whatever will happen, will happen... you just can't escape from it. You better be ready, but don't give your whole life to it.
You also seem like doing good, socializing with people... here in DPC I mean. That's a big step to tell us who you are in real life. So, since you are out of your house now, try to be out of your fear as well.
FP |
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05/10/2008 09:28:13 AM · #29 |
Nobody gets away without being noticed for photographing something. Everything from "concerned looks" to lingering and gawking to weird hostility like you describe. But the only incident I can recall being talked about here that had the potential to be something serious happened to  hotpasta. If he'd had a cellphone, he might have felt safer. I don't think the general hobbyist that frequents this site really needs to be so fearful of their surroundings while photographing that tasers, chemicals, guns, bats, sticks, and what have you need to be in the camera bag. I think caution is one thing, panic another. |
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05/10/2008 10:03:25 AM · #30 |
Hi Togtog,
This would seem to fit you perfectly check it out. www.findmespot.com
one press of the button and your exzact location is transmitted to athorities instantly telling them you are in need of assistence immediately anywhere in the world !!!. I own one.
Message edited by author 2008-05-10 10:04:28.
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05/10/2008 11:10:10 AM · #31 |
It never seems to happen to me while shooting. I think that maybe it helps to blend in with the locals.
Goofballs like that are everywhere, you just have to ignore them. It is a good idea to keep a cell phone handy when shooting in remote locations, or even in your yard in this case. Glad to see that no humans were harmed in the making of this thread.
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05/10/2008 11:42:21 AM · #32 |
Wow, that's pretty scary to be threatened in your own yard. Do you live in a seedy part of town?
As you might guess from my username, I'm a cyclist for life. Just like several others have mentioned, random idiots yelling, throwing stuff, swerving at you, or doing other annoying/threatening things happens to anyone who has spent a decent amount of time on the road on a bike. I usually get very angry at first and then try to defuse the situation. The drivers are typically really brace with a ton or two of metal between them and me, but they never get out and face me man to man.
I wonder why that is?
Could it be they are ultimately just cowards with small brains and even smaller wieners?
Many times as they drive off, I say something like, "Have a nice day, I am!" and wave big big.
If I can calm the situation down to where I leave happy and they leave pissed off but still leave, I consider that a victory.
I also agree with the others who suggested martial arts training. It wouldn't be so much that it will teach you to fight back but that it will give you the confidence and knowledge to NOT have to fight back. You'll also be interacting very closely with people, and getting into better physical shape - all good things. Then, if the situation can't be calmed down you have your training to fall back on IF you have to fight. |
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05/10/2008 11:47:54 AM · #33 |
Unfortunately jackasses and assholes are a plenty in this world. Most people bark more than they ever bite. If all you have is some goon who drives by shaking his hand while mumbling obscenities then I wouldn't worry much.
Arming yourself with any of the various self defense weapons mentioned in the thread is nice for last resort measures, I think the best thing you can arm yourself with is awareness and commonsense. I also think that people arm themselves with the any number of weapons and let their guard down because they have a false sense of security. Always be aware of your surroundings and if things don't seem right or your uncomfortable then remove yourself from the area or situation, trust your gut. Avoiding a situation is much better than trying to get yourself out of it, prevention is better than cure as they say. Just my 2 cents. |
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05/10/2008 12:02:21 PM · #34 |
hey togtogalthough i cant offer a quick solution but i suggest you pick up some kind of martial arts, i know its very tough to begin with (talkinbg from experience ;)) but belive me join your local boxing/Karate club.
i swear it would work wonders
best regards |
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05/10/2008 12:03:18 PM · #35 |
Well, we can't all don a WW II German army helmet and a Hell's Angel"s jacket. Confidence
is less conspicuous and more useful. The best way to develop it when there appears not to be much of self to be confident about
is to trust in something seemingly external to the self, which, of course, you're only a part of: nature, the middle way, an order of the universe, mankind (this one's more difficult, I admit), karma, anything like this.
Ya gotta have faith in sumtin.
When you do, you walk more erect. Your strut and bearing gains a little swagger. Your eyes focus more easily. Breathing turns regular, and the dogs respect you.
Yes, talk is cheap, and practice might not make perfect, but it helps, I swear.
Message edited by author 2008-05-10 12:04:06. |
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05/10/2008 09:49:27 PM · #36 |
Wow, everyone. I never thought that this would gather this many replies. I was more or less trying to gauge if I should have been worried and what I should do to feel safer in the future. You are all great, all of you. I wish I could personally reply to each and every message here, however I will try to address some questions and such.
I am thinking about maybe rigging something like a few baseballs in a long sock, I have ok arm strength and I think I could make an impact, plus unlike a gun there is less chance of killing someone. It wouldn't draw attention hanging from my belt so I shouldn't appear to be threatening to someone passing by.
Mace is a nice thought too. Though it might not look threatening enough, not to mention sunglasses.
I will also look into getting my cam insured, currently we don't have renters insurance, so I am trying to get some quotes on that and the cost for a floater is it?
As for martial arts, I will certainly keep it in mind but don't think that quite clicks with me right now. I've heard good things about Aikido.
I want to thank everyone again for being here and for being so helpful about this.
Originally posted by jtf6agent:
You should hang out with me... being former law enforcement I have a right to carry a concealed firearm and guess what? I do. So after I shoot you I'll shoot you! Get it?
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Haha, very funny. *backs away* ;)
Originally posted by Art Roflmao:
Sorry to hear about your experience, Scott. A few thoughts come to mind:
- I'm disappointed you didn't get a picture of the guy. Even shot from the hip. ;-)
- Even a $12 tripod probably has 3 metal spikes at one end
- Guns, get 'em while you still can. At least until you get your black belt.
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Actually my crappy tripod has dull plastic feet, and bends under its own weight so I think it would only work as a weapon if applied to face. :)
Originally posted by Art Roflmao:
Seriously though - I feel like I am missing part of the story. A guy driving down the street sees another guy taking photos of the sky, slows down, rolls down his window and yells stuff, flips him off or something. I guess I've heard stranger things. Do you live in Florida? Cuz that would explain it better. ;-)
edit to add: ROFL! I just saw your other thread where you mentioned you live in Florida! Haaahaaa - Whenever something bizarre, horrific or totally out in left field is covered in the media, 9 times out of 10 it will be in Florida.
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Indeed, see the thing is. It is impossible not to go insane here, without A/C. This guy was driving with his windows down, he obviously had no A/C, therefore he was going or already was insane.
Speaking of such things in Florida, last year I was with my mum at Burger King, in line, when a lady came from the side and wedged her car in front of ours to cut us off, ended up scratching her car, then held everyone up for close to a half-hour waiting for police to show up to tell them how we assulted her BMW and destroyed her paint. During this time, she blocked the whole line from moving and just kept yelling at the menu for someone to call the police because she had just been assulted by a car.
She got a good talking to from the police for calling them for something so trivial, and for obviously cutting in front of us.
Originally posted by Jedusi:
Scott, having checked your profile pic I've discovered the issue - you actually appear to be some sort of Blackbird. This would explain why you are wary around people, and grew up in an isolated environment.
The guy in the truck probably called out because he was shocked to see a Blackbird taking photo's !!
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:) I needed this, I got a great laugh out of this, thank you. :)
Originally posted by FocusPoint:
I donno man, maybe you just misunderstood the guy... Since he slowed down, and yelled, maybe he was saying "Am I in your way? Are you done? Can I go now?" and pointing the road ahead of him... I don't think anyone would do such a thing just because you are taking photos. Now knowing you better, It could be only you just panicked seeing someone actually interacting with you... and took it to wrong way, and it's possible.
But if not, you don't have to be worry. Think about this, whatever will happen, will happen... you just can't escape from it. You better be ready, but don't give your whole life to it.
You also seem like doing good, socializing with people... here in DPC I mean. That's a big step to tell us who you are in real life. So, since you are out of your house now, try to be out of your fear as well.
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Hehe I wish, I know the difference between hey look at me make as ass of myself and hey buddy I want to kick your face in. No mistaking how far on the other end. I think he genuinely thought I was causing some sort of harm. As for being in the way he was a few car lengths past me when he slowed down to yell turning around in his seat. The thing is, he wasn't watching the road when he did that either.
I do interact with people but usually have a family member with me, I don't think I've ever seen someone that mad before though, not even the lady above yelling to the cops was that mad, she was just dumb.
Christmas before last I was with my mum (who is my photo buddy I guess) shooting some Christmas decorations. Not my faith but it is hers. We were standing on the median between two roads shooting across traffic when it cleared. A couple idiot teens in a Honda purposely jerked their car towards us, honked their horn, and the one yelled out his window. It was obvious they were just being jerks though, they were laughing. The guy above, was very clearly not laughing :/
Originally posted by Louis:
But the only incident I can recall being talked about here that had the potential to be something serious happened to hotpasta. If he'd had a cellphone, he might have felt safer.
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Don't leave me in suspense like that! What happened to hotpasta?
Originally posted by Frankie_Lv:
Hi Togtog,
This would seem to fit you perfectly check it out. www.findmespot.com
one press of the button and your exzact location is transmitted to athorities instantly telling them you are in need of assistence immediately anywhere in the world !!!. I own one.
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That is a very interesting little gadget. It looks like it would be useful, I do notice it is the same price as a cheap gun however. Though I'm not exactly a fan of guns and this looks like it would be useful for things other than just self protection. |
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05/10/2008 09:54:25 PM · #37 |
togtog, this is the thread Louis was referring to:
Nearly lost my life taking an image, D200 dead
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05/10/2008 09:56:25 PM · #38 |
Thanks yanko!
Oh damn, I am glad I read this now. I was at the beach last week before dawn, gah.
Message edited by author 2008-05-10 22:00:31. |
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05/10/2008 11:05:35 PM · #39 |
Many excellent ideas. If you take up martial arts training, choose an instructor who teaches street defense. You could study some systems for years and learn nothing useful. Street defense teaches you something the first day... It also boosts self confidence (I studied Kung Fu / MMA styles for some time.) just as an example: //www.streetdefense.com/
Florida has adopted Stand Your Ground legislation. That means you do not have to run away in fear of lawsuits - as long as you fear bodily harm or death, you have the right to defend yourself, whether at home or in public. For more info:
cfif.org/htdocs/freedomline/current/in_our_opinion/florida-self-defense-law.htm
edited for url
Message edited by author 2008-05-10 23:16:19. |
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05/11/2008 03:00:44 AM · #40 |
Originally posted by fldave:
Street defense teaches you something the first day... It also boosts self confidence (I studied Kung Fu / MMA styles for some time.) just as an example: //www.streetdefense.com/ |
Careful with that site - I was checking out their e-training program and put my fist right through my monitor, maced my CD-ROM, and stabbed my keyboard right through the Enter button with my car keys! >8o |
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05/11/2008 05:24:48 AM · #41 |
| I haven't done this, but you could find a way to insure your camera, perhaps through your home-owner's insurance (even if you rent...). Then you can go out whenever and if someone robs you, you won't feel the need risk your life for you equipment (as I currently do :P) |
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05/11/2008 10:47:50 AM · #42 |
I'm just glad it didn't happen in Texas - we have a bad enough name as it is. ;~)
I agree that this guy was probably just some weirdo, or thought you were an out in the open peeping Tom, taking photos of his grandmother from across the street. LOL |
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05/11/2008 11:01:31 AM · #43 |
Interesting thread. Several things come to mind.
Regarding the mention of various weapons: My dad, who was trained in one-on-one combat in the army (and then trained me - ha!) said, never carry a weapon you're not willing to use, or it will be used on you. So if you have a baseball bat, you better be willing to club someone with it. If you hesitate, you might be the one minus a face.
Regarding martial arts: I really agree that it helps boost confidence. You learn how to breathe (always handy), how to stand, how to focus - all of those things alter your attitude. With the right attitude, you really don't get harassed a lot, and if you do, the offenders are more likely to back down if you look like you might kill them.
Regarding attitude: In continuation of what I just said - I'm a big believer that most of what happens or doesn't happen to us is due to our attitude towards it - Law of Attraction. Due to personal experiences of highly traumatic nature, I had to make a decision if I wanted to be a victim for the rest of my life. I found it to be too cumbersome. It changed something profoundly in my attitude as a result of which I don't get messed with a lot. (Martial arts helped there, too)
Regarding Florida: Well, there's your problem. :o)
Overall - don't let one idiot rule your life. As a society, we've all been scared into believing if we talk back or defend ourselves, the retaliation will be mighty. Someone who harasses you from their truck is probably a big sissy with mother issues. Don't worry about it. |
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05/11/2008 11:11:40 AM · #44 |
I personally have a huge, biker-looking angel with a flaming sword that hangs around with me all the time. He's pretty intimidating when he wants to be...seen, that is...
Absent one of those, self-confidence and calm are invaluable. My somewhat small, somewhat nerdy son grew much bigger in stature once he had is TaeKwonDo black belt. As far as I know, he's only had to defend himself once, against a bully, who found out what his own blood in his own mouth was like.
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05/11/2008 01:03:30 PM · #45 |
Always carry around a half an Alka-Seltzer tablet. Someone starts messing with you, just pop it into your mouth (without them seeing) once the foam starts rolling they'll freak out, and run away.
Seriously, like other people have voiced. If you elect to carry a weapon, any weapon, make sure it is one your willing to use- and then be willing to accept the consequences of your using it.
A few years ago my wife was stunned to learn that not only do I know how to shoot, I am very good at it. We don't own a gun, and I have no desire to own a gun. This is not a gun control statement, it is a personal one. Its pointless for me to own a gun for self-defense, I know myself too well and the odds of my using it on another human being are remote at best.
Interestingly, I have buddy- Robert- that just got his black belt in Tae Kwon Do (hope I spelled that right). He told me a few weeks ago that its helped his confidence, but now he's scared to death of being put into a position where he'd use his "new found" abillities. "I could really mess someone up, and I don't know how I'd feel about that." He's 5'4" and went through a period about seven or eight years ago where a neighbor was harrassing him non-stop. He'd take out his garbage and the neighbor would make it a point to go stand in the doorway and block him from coming back in the building, the neighbor would park his car in so tight Robert couldn't get in his drivers door, lots and lots of little things that amounted to a very big thing. One night Robert got fed up and went through and super glued (Gorilla Glue I think) his neighbors doors and windows shut. The next morning Robert took out his trash and laughed his ass off the whole way as he heard his neighbor pounding and slamming against his door trying to get out.
The long rambling point is.... The world if full of jerks, and unfortunately there isn't enough super glue for all of them.......ehhhhhh, something like that.
Okay, maybe the point is...The world is full of jerks and we all have to decide for ourselves how we're going to deal with them.
Message edited by author 2008-05-11 13:06:27.
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05/11/2008 01:13:38 PM · #46 |
Come to NYC for some training, if you like. We'll go to East New York City one night with some camera gear and take some shots, so-to-speak. Even the police are hostile here (in places). Using violence to fend off threat is risky these days. Even people with a record of being nasty can successfully sue if they get damaged. I think it takes a state of mind to deal with these situations and you seem to be learning already. I reckon you will be much better prepared for the scene next time round. As for a cell phone, useless except after the fact. But it does make sense to make sure someone knows where you are going and what time you might be there and come back. Scope the location out in advance to see from which direction threat might come and which directions escape might be possible.... Keep shooting.
Message edited by author 2008-05-11 13:14:59. |
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