My bid got accepted! - DPChallenge Forums

Canon EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6

04/25/2008 03:14:33 PM · #1

I just landed a small town Parks and Recreation Department summer ball league for memory mates and team pictures. Now I have to coordinate the coaches for ~20 baseball/teeball teams and nail down a shoot day and backup day, but that shouldn't be too hard (and the payout makes it well worth any trouble). This successfully gives me at least one sport to shoot all year round. Gymnastics in the spring, baseball in the summer, football in the fall, and wrestling in the winter. Not to mention I have packets out for fall soccer and winter basketball...still waiting to hear back about those. With these and a few weddings, by mid-summer I should have enough money to add some nice things to my equipment list!

Just thought I would share this Friday's "WooHoo!" moment.

-drew

Sunniee

Canon EOS-40D

04/25/2008 03:16:01 PM · #2

Wow.... congrats!

JulietNN

Canon EOS R7

Tamron 16-300mm Di II VC PZD MACRO w/Canon Nikon mount

04/25/2008 03:16:55 PM · #3

Well, well done that is great news and what a boost to the ego too.

Sigma 70-200 /2.8 APO EX DG Macro HSM II

04/25/2008 04:04:12 PM · #4

Thanks guys. This was the first time I had to enter a bid, other times I was asked to shoot the teams. It was a little weird reworking my packages to fit the bid sheet, then incorporating a "Fund Raising Revenue" column.

Eyesup

Nikon D300

04/25/2008 04:12:56 PM · #5

congrats!!! tell me, how did you go about this whole endeavor? did you aprach them or they you? was it too difficult working within their forms and requirements etc? enquiring minds want to know

04/25/2008 04:50:49 PM · #6

Originally posted by Eyesup:

congrats!!! tell me, how did you go about this whole endeavor? did you aprach them or they you? was it too difficult working within their forms and requirements etc? enquiring minds want to know

Okay, here is the scoop. This small town (~5,000 residents) is my hometown. My wife and I now live ~3.5 hours away. We still have lots of family and friends back home. They have kids that are in the pee-wee and little league sports, so a lot of them are getting into coaching. My wife's cousins coach the YMCA gymnastics teams and asked me last year to take their pictures. We had some pretty good responses and made a little cash out of the deal.

Then a sister of one of my good friends called me up, as she was put in charge of the pee-wee and little league football pictures. She saw my gymnastics work displayed about my friend's house (they had a little girl in the program), and liked my products better than the guy that had done it before. So we lined up football last fall...albeit last minute..."We were thinking you could do pictures next Saturday morning," this was said at ~7pm on a Friday. There is a funny side story about the football weekend, where we (me, my wife, my best friend, and his wife) had tickets to a football game at our alma mater (which happens to be half way between our hometown and where we live now), so we shut down our old college hang-out bar Friday night, almost didn't go to bed, got up and drove in (1.5 hours) to take football pictures, sped four football teams and cheerleading squads through pictures, and headed back (1.5 hours) to meet up with everyone and made it in time to catch the second half of the college football game.

After that, my wife's cousin came through again, as her husband coaches the little kids wrestling team in the winter. And we lined up gymnastics for this year. We saw how these sports portraits were taking off, so I called the Parks and Recreation Director to ask how they selected photographers for summer baseball. She got me lined out with all the paper work (they had us create packages to their specifications--so they could compair apples to apples among photographers. I do think it helped that many of the Board members had kids in football, wrestling, or gymnastics and have seen my work and customer service...plus there were at least two people on the Board who's kids' weddings I shot in the past.

Finally, this spring a couple friends of mine are on the YMCA board and mentioned my pictures during a meeting. They already had someone booked for spring soccer, but hopefully we can get in for fall soccer and winter basketball.

So I guess it was passive at first, where we were approached and word kind of spread around the community. Most of these people know us from growing up there, or at least know our parents. Then we became more involved this winter/spring seeking out the Directors and sending sample packets to the YMCA. Sorry for the book, but enquiring minds wanted to know!

-drew

Olympus 50mm f/2.0 Macro ED Zuiko Digital

04/26/2008 10:43:08 AM · #7

I just got the email for the Parks Director with all the coaches' names and phone numbers...guess I better punch in. Luckily I know most of the coaches...now I just have to get them to settle on one Saturday (with a backup) to do all the pictures!

Tlemetry

Olympus E-300 EVOLT

04/26/2008 02:48:41 PM · #8

Wow Drew, thats really fantastic!
Great word of mouth advertising! You will do fantastic.

MattO

Nikon D4

Nikon AF-S Nikkor 70-200mm f/2.8G ED VR II

04/26/2008 09:32:21 PM · #9

So how much are you going to pay an assistant for this? Maybe I will apply! 'grats drew.

Matt

04/27/2008 10:15:24 AM · #10

Congrats!

I signed my first sports league 10 days ago and shoot them next saturday - 412 soccer kids and team photos out in the sun (man am I hoping for a cloudy day!).
Gave them the order forms and envelopes wednesday and start shooting at 7:30 on sat and will be done by 2:30. I've not yet got a shoot schedule from them...
I'm bringing 2 other photogs and my assistant (to handle the money) and have a pretty good workflow/paper flow ready to go - all the kid wear the same color and there are 30 some teams so I MUST keep this flawlessly organized. The time in front of the computer to order all this is not something I'm looking forward to!

My assistant knows the folks in the league - the president pretty well. It's take 2 years to get here- and we only got a shot because the last photog screwed up - two things they did wrong. 1) they shot the kid with dandelions in the background. Not a crime in and of itself, but the league pres asked the photog "Will those dandelions be seen in the photos?" and he said no, and they were seen. Then they were late delivering product and there was no penalty paid by them for this.

I've tried to get my local baseball league for 3 years and many parents want a change, but the league honcho refuses to even talk to anyone else - long time friends, bribes, payolla...I don't know, but I'm suspicious.

I almost had another baseball league for yesterday, but I had a wedding at 1 and the league didn't believe I could shoot 350 kids between 8 and 1. Why? Because 'all the other photographers in the past have shot from 8 until 5 or 5:30 to do it'. The soccer league has more kids and less time and no one in the past has had problems shooting all the kids... But I have a follow up name and number and will be contacting them in the future and see if I can get their league next year.

Here everyone is about low price, not fundraising or kickbacks, etc. No hassle, top quality, and fast turnaround matter.

04/27/2008 10:16:51 AM · #11

Originally posted by MattO:

So how much are you going to pay an assistant for this? Maybe I will apply! 'grats drew.

Matt

The two photogs I'm hiring to help are getting $275 each for 7am-3pm and they're bringing their gear. All they do is shoot and give me the cards. My assistant/assistant is paid differently and will help PP as well as deliver the orders, etc.

04/30/2008 07:31:44 AM · #12

3.5 hours away? Are you going to have any money left after 3 trips back and forth and paying the other photogs? (Main day, inevitable make up day, delivery)- This is mostly sarcasm, since on a $400 kid league, its very easy to gross $15k+, but man thats a hike.

What company are you using to do the processing?

04/30/2008 07:36:18 AM · #13

Originally posted by Prof_Fate:

Congrats!

I've tried to get my local baseball league for 3 years and many parents want a change, but the league honcho refuses to even talk to anyone else - long time friends, bribes, payolla...I don't know, but I'm suspicious.

I almost had another baseball league for yesterday, but I had a wedding at 1 and the league didn't believe I could shoot 350 kids between 8 and 1. Why? Because 'all the other photographers in the past have shot from 8 until 5 or 5:30 to do it'. The soccer league has more kids and less time and no one in the past has had problems shooting all the kids... But I have a follow up name and number and will be contacting them in the future and see if I can get their league next year.

For the local baseball league, I guarantee that they are getting a portion of the sales, and that the league head has a personal relationship with the photog.

And about the other league, its wild how quickly you can do 350 kids, if oyu arrange it right. Last weekend we did 24 teams of anywhere from 6-15 kids per team, and we were doing 1 team every 7 minutes. We had 2 photogs - one would do the individuals, one would do the groups, and an assistant for the photog taking the individuals, to keep track of the numbering. People are always surprised to see us knock out an entire 500+ kid league before noon.

04/30/2008 10:26:40 AM · #14

Originally posted by ajdelaware:

We are still in the early stages of building this little side business. We currently use Mpix to process all our sports stuff, their ROES system is easy enough to use (I can set up the order, then walk away while it uploads), and I get ALL the pictures shipped next business day for $9.95!

We informed the league on our bid sheet that we were coming from out of town (most of them know us, and knew that already). So we set the date before the actual season started, that way we would have plenty of time to do make-ups or weather delays. We already have one team that is going to give us fits (the coaches are right out of high school and haven't found a sponsor yet). It looks like they will be shot later and receive their pictures after everyone else.

Gas prices are going to be a b!+(#, but we are going to visit friends and family while we are home (and my wife's car gets pretty decent milage ~27 hwy). We have scheduled the drop off to coincide with a wedding later in the month (we were invited to attend the wedding, then asked to shoot it...and it is a paying gig). So right now we are spreading the travel costs out. This spring I am getting in contact with leagues around here to get bids in for fall sports that are local and have WAY more kids. So I guess our sports journey has been similar to some people's break into wedding photography...shoot who you know; probably won't make much money; but will gain experience and portfolio materials so you can land bigger, better paying gigs.

-drew

04/30/2008 12:54:08 PM · #15

Originally posted by ajdelaware:

For the local baseball league, I guarantee that they are getting a portion of the sales, and that the league head has a personal relationship with the photog.

Personal relationship no doubt, it's always who you know not what you know. I doubt the league is getting a percentage. I've talked with enough folks around here that run or shoot such leagues that i've yet to find anyone paying a percentage back. I've offered...but they all want the lowest possible price for the pictures.

Originally posted by ajdelaware:

And about the other league, its wild how quickly you can do 350 kids, if oyu arrange it right. Last weekend we did 24 teams of anywhere from 6-15 kids per team, and we were doing 1 team every 7 minutes. We had 2 photogs - one would do the individuals, one would do the groups, and an assistant for the photog taking the individuals, to keep track of the numbering. People are always surprised to see us knock out an entire 500+ kid league before noon.

I don't think we'll have much issue with shooting all the kids. No make up days here - ever. Make it or forget it. I've got one coming by the studio today for a photo cause they won't be around saturday. Works for me.

What is an issue is there is no rain date. if it's going to rain (which the forecast calls for at this point - fri, sat, sun, mon...so it's gonna rain) then we have to shoot in the middle school cafeteria. Lovely. I have some muslins, stands, lights, but not enough (depending on arrangement) to make the groups and indy shots match, or to have a 'floor' that isn't the cafeteria floor. I want to do well so i can shoot this again next year!

as to your 400 kid $15,000 gross?? From those in the biz around here ($12 unit price range) the average sale is just under $20 and not every kid buys of course. So i'm figuring half or less of of what you're saying you get. Let me in the secret please!!

04/30/2008 05:11:22 PM · #16

Originally posted by Prof_Fate:

as to your 400 kid $15,000 gross?? From those in the biz around here ($12 unit price range) the average sale is just under $20 and not every kid buys of course. So i'm figuring half or less of of what you're saying you get. Let me in the secret please!!

No kidding...do share! Most of the kids buy the lowest package (so of course we built better profit margins in those). We have had pretty good luck with >80% buying (knock on wood). We have a couple of parents that buy one of everything offered and spend ~$40 each time (diviorced parents are around the same because they buy two of whatever the kid wants). But again, most of our kids spend $13-$15, some pick a couple of prints for <$10. By dividing $15,000 by 400...How are you getting 400 kids to buy $37.50 worth of product (plus cover your cost)?!?!

04/30/2008 06:09:29 PM · #17

The guy that shoots my kids baseball pics has no packages at all. We just buy 1 team 5x7 w/ cardboard frame for $7. I can't see him making a high per kid sale, and if he is I want that league!

My soccer league pricing has 8 packages, $15, $20, 2 at $25, 30, 45, 49, and 55. Plus a lot of stuff alacarte. Had an early bird today and they bought the $20 package and the cheapest alacarte magnet at $6.50. If I can keep this as an average I'll be happy as all get out!

05/03/2008 12:14:17 PM · #18

Its a funny industry. I learned very quickly that lower class area leagues are more profitable than upper class area leagues. The secret is to offer a large variety of items, and price them to steer the buyer into what you want them to buy. For example - offer a variety of packages with the "memory mate" because odds are its one of your most profitable item (besides just a 5x7 or 8x10) and people will always buy them. We had one family spend $150 on their 3 kids, and we photograph those kids 3 times a year (soccer spring/fall, and baseball)

Prof - if you are doing baseball shots, you might want to invest in a canvas baseball backdrop. Not too expensive, and definitely comes in handy. You don't have to worry about the background matching in both shots. I've been doing this for 5 years, and the business has been around for 15 years, and never has their been a complaint about that.

This is the baseball canvas I have, (thought it would be funny to use for some merch photos for a friends band, but you can get the idea)

Also, don't worry about the floor, especially if oyu are shooting baseball, youre only shooting from the waist up. And any other sports - bring a milk crate and have the kids put one leg up on it, and it gives a similar look as to if they were "taking a knee".

We always give a portion of the sales to the league because most of these leagues can use any money they can get. We usually give $x per each child photographed, and it doesnt seem like a lot of money, but when it comes down to it, people like geting money for doing nothing, so it works.

Also, I know you said that you are only having one day of photos, no make ups, etc...but expect to have to go back for those few kids that have eyes closed in every shot you took, and bought the larger packages. With leagues, its very easy to induce mob mentality...alls it takes is one loud mouth parent bitching enough about how she didnt get her pictures (probably cause her check bounced...again!) and next thin you know you are fighting to keep the league.

Also, to the fella driving 3.5 hours...you might want to run that cash only...bounced checks are very frequent in this, to the point where we separate the checks by issuing bank and go straight to the bank to have them cashed there (instead of depositing them in our account and finding out the hardway)

If you have any more questions, send me a PM, as I don't really check this site much anymore.

Message edited by author 2008-05-03 12:21:31.

05/03/2008 12:20:22 PM · #19

Originally posted by drewbixcube:

[quote=Prof_Fate] By dividing $15,000 by 400...How are you getting 400 kids to buy $37.50 worth of product (plus cover your cost)?!?!

Well reputation helps, some of these leagues we do, we have been photographing for over a decade, so people know what to expect. Our packages range anywhere from $10 for 8x10s to $60 for a large package including wallets, traders, memory mate, a few 5x7s, etc.

Ala Carte items are the real money makers, even though the popular ones tend to have a little more cost on our end, but still, most of our profit margins are in the 75% range. $15k, keep in mind is the gross sales, not the net, so expect your profit when all is said and done to be between 40-60% of that, depending on how many people you have etc. Our over head costs are rather low...so that helps as well.

05/03/2008 09:50:04 PM · #20

Doing soccer, and it rained so we were in the gym. Blue muslin for the individual shots and the bleachers for the group shots. Being soccer, full height is expected, most posed standing with one foot on the ball or kneeling with the ball on the floor in front of them. We'll see tomorrow how that turned out.

I'll have to think on the check thing - never had a bounced check yet. CC trouble, but not checks.

Our cheapest package was $15 and a lot were sold. I won't have an average till later, or a total count. Been a long day, and then we stopped for wings and a beer..turned into 6 hours in the bar. got two portait sessions tomorrow so may be monday before i have much chance to see what the pics look like.

So far we've had great feedback from the leauge and a few parents we ran into at the bar. Got an inqiury for a parent from a baseball league that hasn't picked a photog for this year yet. Finger are crossed!

05/04/2008 10:33:45 AM · #21

Nice! When we do soccer pictures its usually from the shins up....on foot on a milk crate, the ball on their hip,and their other hand on their opposite hip. We rather have more face in the frame, since thats whats important. Pretty much if you have the ball in the shot, you can't go wrong.

You found a baseball league that doesn't have a photog yet? They are like a month behind!!! Make sure, if you do it, that you can get the pictures back and delivered before the season ends...shipping takes a lovely chunk out of your profit.

05/12/2008 12:52:56 PM · #22

Well...we are almost done with baseball pictures...

We had 3 teams not have uniforms ordered, and two more that just could not get many of the players or coaches to be able to show up, so I am heading back up Thursday afternoon to catch these last 5 teams before their games and after their practices, as well as individuals that missed the team time, but still want photos.

We had a very good turn out; the weather tried very hard to cooperate (it was windy, but managable); and we picked up business for a few family portraits, another 4 traveling baseball teams this summer, and hopefully the fall soccer at the YMCA. I scheduled it to be an all day event (and it was), figuring it was better to have a little down time here and there, than having a lined of ticked parents tapping their toes and needing to get Jr. to a soccer game. we moved the teams through pretty quick ~10-15 minutes per team, and I will definately take that into account for our next big multi-team days.

I will report my numbers after I get these 5 teams finished up this week. We knew going in that the lowest package was probably going to be the best seller, but I think we will end up with more people buying the bigger packages. We did have one family spend ~$50 per kid and they had 3 so far, maybe a 4th on Thursday. Just running some numbers off the top of my head, I should have enough from ~210 kids to get a 40D (plus a few accessories), pay for the 4 new tires on my Tahoe, and sock a little away in the savings account. Woo-whoo!

-drew

klkitchens

Pentax K-1

Pentax FA 50mm f/1.4 AF

05/12/2008 01:42:15 PM · #23

Man... our league was always "THIS DAY IS PHOTO DAY" and you better be there.

05/13/2008 04:38:10 PM · #24

Out soccer team day was rainy, so we had to shoot in the gym...not optimum in some ways but it worked fine. about 350 kids showed but very few from the travel teams so we didn't have all 51 teams to photograph. Average was $23.70 per order.

The baseball league is small - 2 teams. We shot the one team last wednesday and teh other one this Friday - I'd rather do them all at once, but this way it's in and out in 30 minutes and everyone will be there as they've got a game. Everyone bought and the average was a bit over $34/order. This being a small order (14 players) was about 15 minutes to order. Its the soccer that took what seemed like forever to order, and then we have a few issues to file back into the pile when it all arrives.
Should be 14 day turnaround on the soccer stuff and 9 on the baseball.

In addition to shooting these two things in the same 7 days I also shot 2 HS seniors (one a rep to that was 4 hours on location), a baby and an engagement session.
This week is an engagement session, senior, baseball team and a wedding, as well as the view and choose for last week's senior.
Next week is another engagement session, a baby and a wedding as well as a view and choose for last week's baby.

So far (and it's only mid month) May is triple my average month for sales. And today I booked another wedding for the fall.