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04/26/2008 12:43:07 PM · #1 |
should the horizon be retilted??
[thumb]673036[/thumb]
I like the shot as it is, but wondering if it is hurting by not haveing a straight horizon??
What do you think??
edited to put in a straight horizon
Message edited by author 2008-04-26 12:45:29. |
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04/26/2008 12:43:58 PM · #2 |
I always straighten the horizon. Always.
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04/26/2008 12:51:56 PM · #3 |
| So do I, or you may have a tendency to lean over to view it straight |
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04/26/2008 12:56:11 PM · #4 |
Yes, I have to agree with you both. I just wasnt too sure as both where tilted and both going in opposit directions if that would make it even out.
For some silly reason I seem to like tilted photographs, but this particular shot has been bothering me. It is one of my favorites of going to Cape Cod and meeting BearMusic. I like the oddness and tiltedness of the boat against the tilted horizon, but also think that not in my mind that it is hurting the shot.
So thanks guys, I will keep it straighted and keep the tilted one to myself lol |
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04/26/2008 01:00:30 PM · #5 |
Originally posted by JulietNN:
should the horizon be retilted??
[thumb]673036[/thumb]
What do you think??
edited to put in a straight horizon |
Agree, always level the horizon. BTW, your horizon is tilted about 2 deg to the right now. It's visible in the thumbnail. But looks better now. |
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04/26/2008 01:02:19 PM · #6 |
it is so funny, cos the more I look at them together the more I am starting to dislike the tilted horizon lol.
I am pretty crap at getting things straight in PS so go to Picasso to do it. I need to do better in PS |
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04/26/2008 01:46:05 PM · #7 |
In my opinion you can leave the horizon as is. Could be an upgoing river or something... It does not look like the ocean anyway....
The man is more important than the "horizon", so straiten the man! |
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04/26/2008 01:49:29 PM · #8 |
Originally posted by ssocrates:
In my opinion you can leave the horizon as is. Could be an upgoing river or something... It does not look like the ocean anyway....
The man is more important than the "horizon", so straiten the man! |
Tilted horizons are often an illusion caused by a receding shoreline. If you "straighten" the horizon in these circumstances, it can make the water look un-level -- much more disturbing to me. |
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04/26/2008 01:49:50 PM · #9 |
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04/26/2008 02:16:26 PM · #10 |
sorry, no man there! But if there was one?
:0
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04/26/2008 02:20:08 PM · #11 |
Originally posted by JulietNN:
what man? |
In the thumbnail view, part of the superstructure of the boat on the right (the solid dark patch) resembles the silhouette of a slightly hunched man standing in front of the boat. |
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04/26/2008 02:57:07 PM · #12 |
lol, now you have said that I can see it.
Twilight zone here we come! |
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04/26/2008 03:01:29 PM · #13 |
[thumb]673049[/thumb]
Just for you SSocrates!!
mind you even he is tilted! lol
Message edited by author 2008-04-26 15:02:49. |
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04/26/2008 03:53:03 PM · #14 |
| You made my night! Take care... I am glad I discovered this place.... |
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04/26/2008 04:07:45 PM · #15 |
Originally posted by JulietNN:
...
[thumb]673036[/thumb]
What do you think?? |
Not to burst your bubble, but your straightened horizon might not be strait. Looks to be tilted clockwise now. :)
Which begs the question... What is straight?
There are two fundamental types of straight:
1-Horizon straight.
2-Picture straight.
Though both are usually the same they aren't always.
In this picture I'd use the water to determine horizon strait. Land can be irregular along a horizon but water never is. That is why it still looks like it is not straight to me. The water isn't 'level'.
The other kind of straight is a little trickier but speaks to the reason why you want things straight in the first place. That has to do with the human mind and how we naturally want to make things horizontal or vertical. If something is close to horizontal or vertical we try to make it so in our minds. Its a balance thing. Humans are sensitive to that at an angle as small as 1/2 degree and as large as 5 degrees or more. It is incredible the vast amount of difference that a small amount of tilt makes.
When things are not level they are mentally distracting and tire the viewer who is constantly trying to mentally straighten them out. So if something is close to being horizontal then it should be made so to prevent that problem. That means sometimes you might level a picture in order to make it internally consistent even though it does not match the true horizon.
If you want something 'tilted' then be sure that it is tilted enough that it cannot possibly be misinterpreted as straight by human viewers who will mentally try to straighten it.
Message edited by author 2008-04-26 16:12:37.
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04/26/2008 04:09:24 PM · #16 |
Yes straighten your horizon, especially when there is a water level.
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04/26/2008 05:12:57 PM · #17 |
yes see what you mean.
the beach in the tilted shot is actually straight, checked with grid pattern.
now the 2nd one I grid lined up the back water edge (it is off by like 1%)
But in lining up the water back edge to be straight, that left the sand edge tilting to the right, and makes you think it is more tilted.
So as you said, there are different straight lines to look for. And now I am more confused than ever.
DO you think that it boils down to not which bit is straight (ie, sand, or water, or horizon) but what the eye first see's when you look at it???
(((Actually, I am really enjoying this conversation, becuase what started out as a simple questions, has turned into a very much a larger issue!) |
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04/26/2008 05:27:13 PM · #18 |
Like ssocrates said, the man is more important than the horizon. ;-Þ
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04/26/2008 05:42:50 PM · #19 |
Originally posted by JulietNN:
yes see what you mean.
the beach in the tilted shot is actually straight, checked with grid pattern.
now the 2nd one I grid lined up the back water edge (it is off by like 1%)
But in lining up the water back edge to be straight, that left the sand edge tilting to the right, and makes you think it is more tilted.
So as you said, there are different straight lines to look for. And now I am more confused than ever.
DO you think that it boils down to not which bit is straight (ie, sand, or water, or horizon) but what the eye first see's when you look at it???
(((Actually, I am really enjoying this conversation, becuase what started out as a simple questions, has turned into a very much a larger issue!) |
Ahhhh... in your mind you want the beach sand "straight" to make it picture strait rather than horizon strait.
That thought would never have occurred to me in your picture. I would go with horizon strait every time. My mind would never try to mentally straighten the sand and I suspect few other folks' would either. But I could be wrong. Wouldn't be the first time. :)
Btw, Pug-H's post is a great example where "picture strait" is different from horizon strait. That picture would be far less interesting if it were horizon strait. Note it has a big angle.
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04/26/2008 06:02:24 PM · #20 |
Isnt it interesting what we all see differently in a picture.
In my mind the way I saw the picture, you see the tilted boat first. but the sand line is straight, so it doesnt make my head tilt.
The horizon is tilted the other direction to the boat. So it sort of offsets it to me.
But for most people eye, they scan teh picture in the 1st 2 seconds, and being off kilter is the first thing that the eye traslates to the brain. Then the eye automatically goes to the horizon for a straight line. Regardless is the straight line of the horizon makes the rest of the shot off kilter too.
The brain is amazing how it processes things. Something that is so simple as a degree or off can screw with your eyes which leads your brain to correct itself.
kinda fascinates me to be honest how many different responses to the eye/brain responses has happened on this thread. |
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04/26/2008 06:07:36 PM · #21 |
Originally posted by JulietNN:
should the horizon be retilted??
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Artistically, NO.
DPCistically, YES.
Message edited by author 2008-04-26 18:07:55.
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04/26/2008 06:16:14 PM · #22 |
well talk about hitting the nail on the head dude!!
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04/26/2008 07:51:56 PM · #23 |
Originally posted by JulietNN:
Original:
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'Level':
[thumb]673095[/thumb]
I'd like to be perfectly clear what I think. That is not to say I am correct, but this is how I would level your image.
To me this seems a clearcut case where it should be 'horizon strait' because the horizon is clearly visible, even in thumbnail. The boat and sand line are not strait but they are at natural and expected angles. In my mind there isn't any desire whatsoever to straiten either the boat or sand line, but there is for the true horizon in the BG.
You could go for artistic or 'picture strait' with this image to. In that case I'd make the true horizon tilted at least 15 degrees one way or the other to keep the viewer from their natural mental tendency to level the sky. If you don't it causes a distraction for many if not most viewers.
However, my best advice is this:
Whatever looks best to YOU is the way to go. After all, you are the photographer. You know better than anyone else what you want in your own picture. :)
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04/26/2008 10:19:19 PM · #24 |
In *this* image, I'd definitely straighten it if you want a "realistic" look, but tilt it much further if you want it for an effect.
You happen to have many parallel lines here: horizon, cloud line, and wave lines. While all three can be at angles to the viewer's perspective, in the small field of view of a photo, they often look wrong to me.
BTW, even lines of clouds can be actually tilted. Not just because they're approaching you at an angle, but because they aren't all at the same altitude. As a private pilot, I was taught not to rely on clouds as an indicator of horizontal.
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04/27/2008 12:04:05 AM · #25 |
For what it's worth, I was there when she shot this puppy and I can tell you right now that if the camera had been on a tripod and squared up with a spirit level,t he horizon WOULD be straight; for that particular view, that's the natural condition of the horizon; as, indeed, it usually is on ocean shots. She just didn't square it up in her handholding.
Incidentally, her horizon in the "straightened" version is not squared up either, it's rotated a bit too FAR. And that brings up another point; rotating the image that much requires quite a bit of cropping and really exaggerates the angles of the boat and beach both. For purposes of comparison, here's a version where the image was squared up by SKEWING the upper left corner up until the horizon was level. Note that the angle of the sand is less extreme, as is the angle of the boat, but at the same time the boat's jutting a bit more up and left.
Skewing doesn't work on everything; if there's people or buildings it can be very touchy. But on seascapes especially it's often the most natural way to squarer up, since a lot of the time whatever "unsquare" we have ended p with is itself a visual skewing phenomenon.
R. |
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