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04/20/2008 02:43:38 PM · #26 |
Originally posted by dwterry:
Originally posted by Camabs:
If you are using it for studio only, there is no need whatsoever to buy an expensive lens. Or camera for that matter. You will work under ideal light conditions, even a kitlens will perform just fine (though not perfect). For portaits, get a 85/1.8 and/or the 50/1.8. For full body, you might want to go a bit wider, but you won't need the superb optics of primes. |
Wow... nothing personal, but I so disagree.
For me, the probability of selling a large print goes way up when I'm shooting a studio portrait. So if you're going to print big (16x24 and larger) would you rather use: a) an 8mp 350D or 20D, or b) a 12.8mp 5D? Would you rather shoot with a) the kit lens with all of its distortion and CA or b) a sharp prime? Granted, I haven't traded in my zooms for a prime, but the two lenses I mentioned are pretty sharp even for zooms. |
Sure, if MPs is all you want and money is no object, go for the 5D. But why stop there? Go medium format or even larger. If money is an issue (it always is), my first priority would not be more MPs, but great light. And I did advise primes, didn't I? I mentioned the kitlens merely as a matter of speaking. I am sorry if that was not clear enough.
btw, look at my profile, and you'll note that I use primes only. So to your second question, may answer would have to be b) ;-)
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04/20/2008 02:50:58 PM · #27 |
looks expensive... and lights fitted to the cieling sounds weird to me. Would that mean that to change lighting styles you'd have to move the model as oppose to just moving a light stand? This could prove difficult if you need to move a bed, a sofa, a set-up table or whatever other props... but it depends on the lighting style you're going for I guess. I'm more than happy (my clients are too) with my lights on stands, but whatever works for you I guess.
Also, how would you use softboxes with those lights, or other diffusers... i've never used the cieling lights before so i don't know how you'd do all this stuff that needs to be done.
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04/21/2008 06:20:07 AM · #28 |
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Message edited by author 2008-04-21 06:20:21. |
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04/21/2008 06:35:19 AM · #29 |
I'd like a few more opinions on if you think the price difference of these two lenses is justifiable and any other points you have about either of them.
Canon 85mm f/1.2L ~ £950
Canon EF 85mm f/1.8 USM ~£180
also the differences between, which would you recommend for what im doing?
Canon 24-70 f/2.8L ~£630
EF 24-105mm f/4 L IS USM ~£550
thanks Jay :)
Message edited by author 2008-04-21 06:40:15. |
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04/21/2008 06:52:37 AM · #30 |
The 85/1.2 is just a sweet lens. If you've got the money, go for it. If you don't, the 1.8 is close enough that the money saved will let you buy something else. :-) (I have only rented the 1.2, I'm not that rich either!)
One thing you should know: The 1.2, although it has USM (which typically means fast focusing), is fairly slow to focus. It's not a good lens for indoor sports or other fast action movement (I found this out trying to use it to take pictures on the dance floor at a wedding reception). The 1.8 version would serve you much better if you need to use it outside the studio or for more than just portraits.
On the differences between the 24-70 and 24-105: Because of my wedding reception work, I won't use anything slower than f/2.8. You just have to have the light. In studio, it wouldn't make so much difference. I do believe the 24-70 is the sharper lens of the two. See lens comparison here.
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04/21/2008 07:00:52 AM · #31 |
Originally posted by JayA:
I'd like a few more opinions on if you think the price difference of these two lenses is justifiable and any other points you have about either of them.
Canon 85mm f/1.2L ~ £950
Canon EF 85mm f/1.8 USM ~£180
also the differences between, which would you recommend for what im doing?
Canon 24-70 f/2.8L ~£630
EF 24-105mm f/4 L IS USM ~£550
thanks Jay :) |
they are all good lenses, the question is whether you wish to spend more for the extra quality. If it's for studio only, good is good enough since you change the light to your liking. Outside the studio, the benefits of the 24-70 will be more noticable. But I'dd stick to primes in a studio setting anyway.
As for the 85/1.2, I think it is way overpriced compared to the 85/1.8. Furthermore, its huge diameter makes it a slow focussing lens as well, despite the USM. If you don't plan to shoot weddings or concerts, I don't see how it can be worth the expense.
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04/21/2008 07:41:40 AM · #32 |
agreed. The 1.2 is a (very) expensive luxury item... for the money it is I would not include that in the start up budget of a studio unless it was all being done outdoors in low light where faster than 1.8 is required, which in a studio it isn't (you'd have to put your lights about 25ft away to get 1.8 anyways).
But Jay it depends on what you want the lenses for- general purpose or the studio? Personally i'd take the 85 1.8 and the 24-105mm. F4 is fine for studio use, the IS helps a great deal outdoors for general stuff and it's a great lens and the 105mm length means you're not too close in the studio.
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04/21/2008 07:55:25 AM · #33 |
JayA - it sounds like you will be in direct competition with venture - i recommend taking you and your partner on a mission - go book a session with venture and do some spying - you will come up with some ideas. Also - be wary of their prices and hard-sell. I work at a studio like the one you are probably trying to set up, we are in competition with Venture and we can undercut them for a variety of reasons (they do PP off-site for one). Lighting isnt a worry in that kind of environment - just get a huge white-box a few strobes and fire away - you will need a zoom lens because moving around just to compose isnt practical when the shot you want out of the family happens infront of your face - you will know what i mean if you go to one of the venture shoots. We use a 5D and a 24-105 L great combination and the studio isnt big...
then for model shoots and things you can employ advanced lighting techniques. so buy a few black sheets to flag the whitebox to your desired effect and move the strobes around.
Anyway - best thing you can do is go see what venture do... you thought you might need 3 rooms? Reception, studio and viewing room? |
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04/21/2008 08:07:14 AM · #34 |
I should have mentioned this before actually... a guy i know runs a studio at the top floor of a Debenhams store in Manchester. It's a lesser known franchise than Venture. What they do is do the shoot for free, then charge crazy prices for prints (£20 8x10).
They have signs everywhere saying "Free photoshoot!!!" and then they get stitched for the prints and pay over the odds. All the PP is done via basic actions and the pictures are terrible, but the families aren't DPCers so don't know this. They use 2 400d bodies in the studio and only 1 lens (!)- the lens itself is a 1990 Sigma 28-70 thing that is completely and utterly crap in every department, but the guy running the studio doesn't know a damned thing about glass or bodies or anything else and he's still turning a profit.
His studio consists of a main reception area, a (small) studio with a clever rotating background thing, a print room and something they call the "Gold Room" which is basically for repeat customers and has tea/coffee stuff and some magazines etc etc to make them feel special. There is also a little back room off the studio where they keep inkjet paper and that kind of stuff... so all in all you have 4 main rooms and some extra space. It's all white walls and laminated floors (it's in a department store) and looks kinda clinical and boring... but it's a department store so I don't think they're responsible for decor.
So yeah, basically you don't need much to pull it off. The clientele of this place is families, kids and the occasional person who gets a photoshoot gift card thing (a good idea), but 75% of the trade is kids. They have a large stock of toys and balls and mats and stuff in a corner of the studio that the kids play with and have their picture taken... i'm not so sure this is very you though :)
I hope this helps in some way!
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04/21/2008 10:04:17 AM · #35 |
IT's all part of his business plan. It's working if he's profitable.
Are you in it for the money (as he is) or are you an artist with pride in your work? The tried and true ways to succeed in any business are:
Find an unfilled need/product/service and provide it
Sell a comparable item/service for less money
Sell a better service/product at the same or similar price
You seem interested in going for the last option- a 40D and 24-70 2.8 canon lens and a 70-200 2.8 and 50 1.2 (for natural light shots) will do you fine. Get 2 bodies and a backup lens (things get dropped, break, etc - you can't be out of business because you're lens quit focusing).
Get 2 computers for editing and a robust backup system/plan. People are paying for pictures, not excuses, so you can't have a computer go down.
You'll probably want two other computers - front end for appointments, etc and one for accounting/business end of things. And being a business DO NOT use pirated software. All this should be networked.
And you'll need a multi line phone with voice mail - not cheap, but you might find a used one for less.
As for lighting..there are the lights, and then how to mount them - almost all dedicated studio spaces use a rail system with the lights suspended from the ceiling. You can use stands, but having wheels on them is super super handy, but you'll likely have cords on the floor- a bad thing for many reasons.
You can buy cheaper lights for starters and upgrade later as needed, if needed. That's my plan and I got Paterson Interfit Stellar lights and have had no issues of any kind, and they're very affordable and use a Bowens mount for accessories. Norman makes nice gear as does Speedotron (got a friend using the same lights for 19 YEARS without a failure!). You can get teh normans with PW triggers built in - more reliable, less seperate things to buy (and break). You won't want to use cords to trip the lights anyway.
How many lights and what modifiers you want will depend entirely on what you plan to shoot - what type of work, what look you want, etc. Traditional portraiture uses 4 lights, but if you want fashion 1 to 3 can be used, or to mimich a window you may need a wall of light. And have a backup light, just in case.
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04/22/2008 07:16:46 AM · #36 |
Been thinking about the lighting in the studio and i think it might be best to have most of it free standing, what should i be looking for? we want the best so price isnt really a issue.
Also around what Watt should i be looking is higher necessarily the better?
Thanks
Message edited by author 2008-04-22 07:21:13. |
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04/22/2008 07:33:39 AM · #37 |
| I probably should say that once this studio is up and running and making money, i will put some money back into the community by offering memberships to who i see fit, as a thank you for all the advice now and over the years :) |
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04/22/2008 07:47:36 AM · #38 |
get your stands on wheels... that's a piece of advice i wish someone had told me earlier :)
Then again, it wouldn't fit in with what I do so ignore that.
Check out Bowens Lights, they do a whole range of stuff and make great lights with good attachments.
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04/22/2008 08:42:08 AM · #39 |
How does this sound?
Esprit Gemini 750/750/750 3 head kit c/w stands,100 cm s/box,2 brollys c/case ,cables - £1,319.15
i could also get extra lights and accessories if needed? |
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04/22/2008 08:50:24 AM · #40 |
get some wireless stuff. Factor that into your totals. Go for pocket wizards or the equivalent fo rbig lights.
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04/22/2008 09:01:49 AM · #41 |
Originally posted by Tez:
get some wireless stuff. Factor that into your totals. Go for pocket wizards or the equivalent fo rbig lights. |
Like This? |
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04/22/2008 09:08:34 AM · #42 |
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04/22/2008 09:20:44 AM · #43 |
Would these do the job just as well? whats better about the other one?
haha i ask alot of questions ino |
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04/22/2008 09:21:53 AM · #44 |
i've no idea... i don't use pocket wizards so i can't tell you.
I know who can though, Mr Google.
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04/22/2008 10:06:35 AM · #45 |
For lights, since your budget is unlimited, go for the good stuff and get ProFoto they have built in pocket wizards so all you'll need is the transmitter for your camera. Get 7-8 identical packs about a couple dozen or so heads and maybe even a couple of full power dual tube heads for when you need to really need to light it up. Then put in a ceiling grid system so there's no mess of cords and stands. You should probably buy a building with 20-30ft ceilings and big overhead doors so you can bring in just about anything to a shoot and have some carpenters build a few sweeps and coves in the space so that you don't have to worry about background stands and the like. Part of the building, you should furnish like a luxury apartment so that your clients can relax in comfort and style. All told, depending on location, it shouldn't set you back more than $500K-$750K to get started. Of course, that's in dollars, so, maybe half that in pounds sterling?
I say, go for it.
Message edited by author 2008-04-22 10:08:46. |
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04/22/2008 10:12:21 AM · #46 |
If you want the best get some Broncolor lights.
https://www.bron.ch/bc_pd_en/index.php |
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04/22/2008 10:14:58 AM · #47 |
Originally posted by Nikolai1024:
If you want the best get some Broncolor lights.
https://www.bron.ch/bc_pd_en/index.php |
Another good option, but I prefer ProFoto. It's a question of personal taste really though. |
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04/23/2008 10:57:02 AM · #48 |
So far this is something like what we are going for...
Canon 5D
Canon EF 85mm f/1.8 USM
Canon 24-70mm f/2.8L
Canon EF 50mm f/1.4 USM
Canon BG-E4 Battery Grip for 5D
(as well as other things, tripod, cards etc)
Lighting, we have a few meetings tomorrow with retailers to see if they can cut us any deals or give any advice.
i was thinking something like..
Bowens Esprint Gemini 750/750/750 3 head kit c/w stands, 100cm s/box, 2 brollys c/case
Travel pack Battery c/w case and charger and one head lead
Pulsar radio trigger
Am i missing anything out? any other lighting types/accessories i will need or will be useful? Is my choice in lens okay?
We want to get this right so atm price isnt really a issue.
Thanks again Jay |
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04/23/2008 11:09:23 AM · #49 |
Originally posted by JayA:
Bowens Esprint Gemini 750/750/750 3 head kit c/w stands, 100cm s/box, 2 brollys c/case
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Get a 4th head. Doesn't have to be as powerfull as the other ones. And you might want a second SB or a beauty dish. If you want a 2nd SB, make sure one is larger for full body shots, though 100 cm is probably okay if placed well.
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04/23/2008 11:30:09 AM · #50 |
Originally posted by Camabs:
Originally posted by JayA:
Bowens Esprint Gemini 750/750/750 3 head kit c/w stands, 100cm s/box, 2 brollys c/case
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Get a 4th head. Doesn't have to be as powerfull as the other ones. And you might want a second SB or a beauty dish. If you want a 2nd SB, make sure one is larger for full body shots, though 100 cm is probably okay if placed well. |
Thanks, you think same sort of head, only about 500 watt will be fine? |
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