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04/16/2008 12:42:53 AM · #26 |
Well here it is....
I know that I didn't do nearly as good as  dstrohl but I tried and my model really liked the image.
Notice that in his comments NO ONE said anything about the focus being on the subject and not the gun. Hmmmm, how do you think that happened?
I guess that overall I am still upset about the final score. I thought that it should have done so much better than it did. I knew I wouldn't ribbon but come on a 5.1??? I was in and out of the 4.8 - 5.0 mark the WHOLE week and not once did I touch 5.1 so I̢۪m actually glad to see it finished better than it̢۪s weekly performance. The funniest thing about this image is all the comments I did get were so out of place. Some said the image was good and some said that if a gun was pointed at them they would be staring at the gun. Let me tell you from personal experience that you WILL look at it but only for a second because instinct takes over and you try to read the person to see if you really are going to get shot or not. There are a million things running thru your mind during that time and believe it or not the gun barrel is not going to be one of them. FWIW I did take some with the barrel of the gun in focus but I felt that the image was much stronger with the main subject of the image in focus. And the dull colors were to give that movie screening type of effect. I wanted the viewer to feel like they were watching a western. And one mention that it would have been better with a 6 shooter but this was the only gun I could get my hands on.
For all those that don't like guns pointed at you even in a photograph, well the only thing I can say to you is GROW UP. Do you really think that I would be completely stupid enough to take a picture (or play with a gun) that was loaded???? I mean come on. You tell that to your kids so they don't shoot their selves or someone else by accident. I'm a full grown man with enough common sense to unload the BB gun before having another grown man point it at me. Thanks for your safety comment but come on!!!
As for the spelling, well that was just a last second title change and I just didn't fix it before roll over. Minor spelling error not like I was pointing a loaded gun at anyone or anything. :)
Anyway Did I really deserve all the 1̢۪s and 2̢۪s??? Maybe I̢۪m wrong but aren̢۪t 1̢۪s and 2̢۪s for images that don̢۪t meet the challenge?
Message edited by author 2008-04-16 00:45:39.
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04/16/2008 01:06:47 AM · #27 |
Hey Joe - I didn't vote on that challenge, but since you brought the comparison into the discussion, I'll just offer this:
- Comparisons of images from two different challenges, especially separated by several months and even more especially if one is in a free study, is apples & oranges / moot point / waste of time. Challenge details are different, voters are different.
- Regarding your image itself, I think it's a strong image, but not particularly suited to the challenge - sure it's centered, but so what. I think you made the right choice with your focal point. The overall processing is a little dull - I know you meant it to be flat, but not dull / uninteresting / lacking drama.
- Regarding the comments you received, you will always get a negative reaction in both the form of votes and/or comments with certain controversial images - you knew that. Your image would have to pop / wow to overcome that, as I suspect was the case with the other image you were comparing (along with aforementioned difference in challenges). Personally, I don't believe anti-gun sentiment affected your score as much as it's overall impact and quality and challenge relevance. Just my opinion though.
Nothing wrong with venting or ranting, but I find it hard to believe you've been around here as long as you have and would still rant about why a large group of people would do what they do or say what they say or be inconsistent with another large group of people (of which, some may belong to both).
Try to take these things less seriously, learn what you can from the score and the comments and discard / forget about what you can't use. That goes for this reply as well. ;-) |
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04/16/2008 01:15:21 AM · #28 |
I'll bite. The 1's and 2's are most likely from those who have a severe dislike or hatred of guns. You have to know going in that there are those who have a visceral reaction to a hot button topic such as guns and will vote their gut. So, I'm not surprised that you have that many votes under three b/c of the subject alone.
As for the the photo itself, I think the model is a bit unconvincing, he is very calm and collect. I think a more menacing look or agitated appearance would add to the feel that you were looking for and make it more believable. as it is now it has an appearance of being set up. I also think that it is a bit flat and your subject doesn't pop out against the background. As for the cinematic feel you would have been served better to go wider and more narrow. I know it sound nit picky but right now it just looks like a normal aspect picture with large black bars on top and bottom, not the 16x9(or what ever aspect wide is) to make it look like I'm watching a movie at the theater.
I like the focus and think you are correct for placing the focus on the person. Sure, at first you will look at the gun but after the realization that you have a gun pointed at you, you will watch the person's face and try to pick up on his body language to see how real the threat is( again this is why I feel the shot lacks due to the model since I don't feel too threatened by his appearance).
I would have voted it a 5 or 6 but I'm not surprised by your score. hope that helps bro and again these are just my opinions.
ETA: I wouldn't take too much offense to people asking or hoping the gun wasn't loaded, there are plenty of dumbass people who point loaded guns at others while playing around all the time. If it didn't happen then you would here of accidents with guns, and we know they happen more than they should. To be honest it was one of the things that crossed my mind(and any time I see a photo with a gun pointing at someone or the camera) while viewing the shot for the first time.
Message edited by author 2008-04-16 01:29:28. |
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04/16/2008 01:31:04 AM · #29 |
Originally posted by Art Roflmao:
Hey Joe |
Originally posted by trevytrev:
I'll bite |
Thank you, I agree with both of you, thank you very much
Message edited by author 2008-04-16 01:32:09.
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04/16/2008 01:48:03 AM · #30 |
My entry in "Hands" challenge was a pair of clenched hands. In handcuffs. Dripping blood. Nothing else. This is one of the comments; "challenge is hands not blood"
Yes, people WILL give you 1's if you evoke a strong negative feeling. They want "nice". And there's nothing in the rules against that.
But there are others who will vote higher to shots that make them feel uncomfortable; a shot that makes them feel something is better to them than "nice".
Technically, for me the comment about the eyes was right on. I wasn't sure just WHAT I felt was missing, but on comparing the eyes in the two, the other had that glint that made him look harder and meaner. Maybe a light shining up from about your waist level to get under the hat, or at least a reflector?
It's not a bad shot at all, but it didn't make me go WOW. Just remember, when you get a 5ish score here it means you're average among some of the best around :)
Message edited by author 2008-04-16 01:48:44. |
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04/16/2008 03:22:08 AM · #31 |
Originally posted by trevytrev:
As for the the photo itself, I think the model is a bit unconvincing |
Oh yeah, I also meant to add that Cowboys don't wear earrings. Leastways not the ones I 'member growin up n all. :) |
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04/16/2008 08:24:33 AM · #32 |
Originally posted by Art Roflmao:
Originally posted by trevytrev:
As for the the photo itself, I think the model is a bit unconvincing |
Oh yeah, I also meant to add that Cowboys don't wear earrings. Leastways not the ones I 'member growin up n all. :) |
Yeah I asked him to take them out but he didn't want too. He's a friend so I didn't think I needed to push the fact and I really didn't think that they were all that bad.
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04/16/2008 08:25:21 AM · #33 |
Originally posted by Dirt_Diver:
Originally posted by Art Roflmao:
Originally posted by trevytrev:
As for the the photo itself, I think the model is a bit unconvincing |
Oh yeah, I also meant to add that Cowboys don't wear earrings. Leastways not the ones I 'member growin up n all. :) |
Yeah I asked him to take them out but he didn't want too. He's a friend so I didn't think I needed to push the fact and I really didn't think that they were all that bad. |
Especially if the picture was for him. :-) |
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04/16/2008 08:25:46 AM · #34 |
Originally posted by BeeCee:
My entry in "Hands" challenge was a pair of clenched hands. In handcuffs. Dripping blood. Nothing else. This is one of the comments; "challenge is hands not blood"
Yes, people WILL give you 1's if you evoke a strong negative feeling. They want "nice". And there's nothing in the rules against that.
But there are others who will vote higher to shots that make them feel uncomfortable; a shot that makes them feel something is better to them than "nice".
Technically, for me the comment about the eyes was right on. I wasn't sure just WHAT I felt was missing, but on comparing the eyes in the two, the other had that glint that made him look harder and meaner. Maybe a light shining up from about your waist level to get under the hat, or at least a reflector?
It's not a bad shot at all, but it didn't make me go WOW. Just remember, when you get a 5ish score here it means you're average among some of the best around :) |
I bought a reflector just for shots like this. They should be here today actually so Just more learning I guess. Thanks everyone
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04/16/2008 08:39:46 AM · #35 |
| Note the dramatic lighting, facial expression, gun position, and focus the eye in dstrohl's entry. Compare that to the review I gave you last week. See the difference? |
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04/16/2008 09:45:06 AM · #36 |
| Dstrohl's lighting is perfect, yours is kind of flat (note the strong edge highlights in his, and the well highlighted eye). I agree with the comments about the pose in yours not being as dramatic and so on, but I think it mostly suffers from poor lighting, especially compared with the other. And for the record, the implied violence is a turn-off. :-P |
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04/16/2008 11:08:01 AM · #37 |
I think you need to develop your critical eye a little more. You still seem upset that you ended up at a 5.1, but I think that is probably a justified score. I didn't vote in the challenge, but I quite honestly might have given the image as low as a 4, depending on how strong the other entries were.
Other, much better photographers than me have already pointed out that the lighting, editing, and other technicals of the image are not nearly as good as you thought on entry. These particularly suffer in comparison to dstrohl's image, where the exposure and lighting are simply spot perfect. However, what I also want to point out to you is the cinematic character of dstrohl's image versus your own, which -- to disagree with the people who chalk it all up to lighting, sorry Louis -- I think is what really elevates his above the din.
Your subject seems divorced from his background. There is nothing there that adds to the image. It could be a rural highway, or just somebody's back yard. In comparison, the background in the other image, while nicely out of focus, remains coherent and provides real interest and context to the image. The combination of the rough and tumble field, the just visible fence line, the threatening sky, and the modern (but also vaguely ominous) electrical towers all aid in the emotional impact that the image holds.
Also notice how all the lines of dstrohl's image lead you to his subject's eye, which then leads you to the threat of the gun. The landscape rises up from from either edge toward the eye, the power lines from the background flow down and toward the eye, the brim of the hat draws you to the subjects face from either direction, even the angle of the gun in the foreground points toward it also.
The character in dstrohl's image is believable in his role as well. His facial hair, build, expression and posture all work toward the message/story of the photograph. His skin is ruddy, as if he spends too much time in the sun and out of doors. The shirt is open (without a nice white undershirt) and his skin seems slightly damp -- providing a sense of heat to the image, which in turn combines with the sky, expression, and photographic elements to further enhance the sense of threat and mistrust that exudes from the image. His hat is dirty and appears worn and used, not new as in your picture. His gun is not modern, but an iconic cowboy's six-shooter.
Finally is the composition. Both of your images are centered, but the powerlines in dstrohl's image provide the effect of weighting the image to the right, a more classic (and generally visually pleasing) style. The crop too is very important. Not just the use of a more cinematic aspect ratio than in your image, but by cropping to compress the elements, dstrohl has made the subject -- and the threat -- seem more present and real. It also appears that he was standing much closer to his subject when he shot the image. Even though you used a longer lens, the focal length and aperture used by dstrohl gives the effect of there being much more distance between the gun and the subject in his image, which is more dynamic visually -- but also the impression that both the subject and the gun being much closer and more threatening to the viewer.
In other words, dstrohl's image is carefully crafted with all the elements working toward the visual story. Yours is not a bad attempt at imitation, but it looks like it was a rather quick attempt and there are several elements present that work against a cohesive shot. |
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04/16/2008 08:50:24 PM · #38 |
| Just go to your profile and look at the ribbon. That might make you feel better :-) |
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