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04/07/2008 08:48:39 PM · #1 |
I was wondering if I were to learn to write the code for a website what steps in learning that would involve and how long people suppose it would take. In other words, what are the fundamentals needed and how would I go about learning it? I have no programming experience outside BASIC from ages ago.
If that seems like too daunting a task, how about the experience needed to be able to update my own site and make minor modifications after someone else creates the basic setup.
Just curious what people think. |
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04/07/2008 09:04:13 PM · #2 |
I have been learning since last year.
1. The learning curve will vary depending on the individual.
2. Learn HTML first.
3. Learn how to write in a text editor not a WYSIWYG editor, you learn quicker.
4. Then go to dynamic HTML.
5. Then move on to Java.
6. If you need a dynamic website after learning the above go to learn PHP
7. You will need to learn a database, MySQL is the best IMO
8. Unless you want to do all you MySQL in the command prompt you will need to learn myPHP or something equivalent.
9. Oh, and don't forget CSS.
10. And more.......
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04/07/2008 09:11:05 PM · #3 |
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
I was wondering if I were to learn to write the code for a website what steps in learning that would involve and how long people suppose it would take. In other words, what are the fundamentals needed and how would I go about learning it? I have no programming experience outside BASIC from ages ago.
If that seems like too daunting a task, how about the experience needed to be able to update my own site and make minor modifications after someone else creates the basic setup.
Just curious what people think. |
I'd say start learning the basics of HTML, then incorporate CSS in while you're still learning HTML. The last thing you want to do is learn some old-fashioned HTML, where the HTML (and not CSS) was used for presentation. After that, PHP and then MySQL. You could then move into Ajax and Javascript if you were inclined.
I'd hold off on Java, as it is pretty much useless for anything to do with a website that you'd be learning in your first little while. Perhaps  SDW meant Javascript.
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04/07/2008 09:22:00 PM · #4 |
It would depend what kind of website you wanted to create. HTML is fairly straight forward. If you wanted something with animation, you would most likely want to use flash, which is a little more involved.
Like most things in life, creating a website is not very difficult, it's just knowing how to do it.
I've created a few websites, and I find the most difficult part is coming up with a good design. If you are creative, you might want to give this a go yourself. Once you have it designed in photoshop, you can just slice it up and put it together using an editor such as Dreamweaver.
I can't stand designing websites, so the last time around, I used Photoshops "Automate Batch" to create a website. There are numerous HTML templates, and the 2 flash templates are quite nice. All I did was pick the photos I wanted, and photoshop did the rest. Afterwards I tweaked the text file they provided to customize it.
My flash gallery
In terms of hosting the website, if you pay someone to do it for you, they will usually have a control panel that will let you upload and make changes without any special knowledge.
If you need any help/tips, give me a shout. |
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04/07/2008 09:29:12 PM · #5 |
I would ask myself "how important is this website to me and how much minute by minute control do I want over it" and after that I would ask myself "how important is this much control compared to how much time I am willing to invest in exercising it."
There are thousands of templates and gadgets and gizmos that allow you to create a site. Many of which are free. What do you want your site to do? How do you want it to look? What are you willing to do yourself? How much time do you have to devote to the upkeep of this site?
You can have anyone prepare a site for you at a reasonable cost, also with a popular template. You can design your own, but at the cost of a learning curve. You can mix the two, but you have to conform to template rules.
You also have to ask yourself who you want to attract/what kind of traffic you want to handle.
Is this for personal or professional use? Just one more question you should ask...
Are your patients going to suffer longer waiting periods because you have to upload the latest shot or text as explanation, or view domain logs to see number of hits, etc... :)
Message edited by author 2008-04-07 21:37:02. |
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04/07/2008 09:46:13 PM · #6 |
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
I was wondering if I were to learn to write the code for a website what steps in learning that would involve and how long people suppose it would take. In other words, what are the fundamentals needed and how would I go about learning it? I have no programming experience outside BASIC from ages ago.
If that seems like too daunting a task, how about the experience needed to be able to update my own site and make minor modifications after someone else creates the basic setup. |
It would really depend on your intent with regards to building websites imo. Sure, you can go the route that SDW describes, and depending upon your ability to code you could be up and running relatively quickly. However, it is a steep learning curve.
Personally I think it's foolish to ignore the myriad of excellent web site building technologies out there, just because they are specifically designed to shortcut a lot of the leg work. It's not the purist view but it works, and more importantly billions of professionals globally do it. I'm talking about stuff like Dreamweaver - which isn't just your average simple template app designed for your grandmother. It's actually very intuitive and extraordinarily powerful, and now is Adobe, so probably has lots of Photoshop and Lightroom interfacing.
Knowing some basic HTML is a good thing whichever way you decide to go. It's really easy and anyone can pick up basic HTML in minutes, with basic competency within the hour. What makes it useful to know is that apps like Dreamweaver allow a 'design' and 'code' view, so you can manually change it. It's also very useful for learning because you can build WYSIWYG style, and then look at the code to see how it's done.
As for the peripheral but important stuff...like database integration and scripting...I'd leave that until you've got the rest under your belt. Once you can deconstruct a site in Dreamweaver you can pretty much modify or customise anything, including the myriad of templates out there.
Also don't forget, there's a bazillion tools for outputting photos in various HTML/flash forms - so if your site is for photography there's not a lot of point in reinventing the wheel. 9/10 someone else has written the script or the function you're after...
Hope this helps
N
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04/07/2008 09:49:46 PM · #7 |
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
I was wondering if I were to learn to write the code for a website what steps in learning that would involve and how long people suppose it would take. In other words, what are the fundamentals needed and how would I go about learning it? I have no programming experience outside BASIC from ages ago. |
Speaking generally, a site that actually does something has two components: the markup that delivers the design, and any programming (code) that delivers its function. If you want to design your own site and have no plans to do this professionally, consider design software and forego learning the markup.
Good coding is a lifelong study, and is not generally something that is picked up in the process of making a hobbyist website. You can, however, generally glue together stuff written by others, but beware. There are a lot of self-styled programmers out there whose code isn't worth the bytes it's written in (or something).
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
If that seems like too daunting a task, how about the experience needed to be able to update my own site and make minor modifications after someone else creates the basic setup. |
Again, software will help you. You may also be interested in a content management system that's part of your website - an area where you log in to make changes to the site as a kind of administrator. Your designer will point you in this direction if that's what s/he's into.
Lastly, W3 Schools is a great resource for novices. |
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04/07/2008 09:52:10 PM · #8 |
Learning some HTML basics might help you decide where you want to go from here. Who knows, you might find it addictive or you might decide it's not worth your while.
One of my favorite sites for resources & tutorials has always been htmlgoodies:
//www.htmlgoodies.com/
As with any art, it's important to know what to avoid, so I'd also recommend understanding what sucks:
//www.webpagesthatsuck.com/
Good Luck! |
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04/07/2008 09:55:37 PM · #9 |
Originally posted by SDW:
I have been learning since last year.
1. The learning curve will vary depending on the individual.
2. Learn HTML first.
3. Learn how to write in a text editor not a WYSIWYG editor, you learn quicker.
4. Then go to dynamic HTML.
5. Then move on to Java.
6. If you need a dynamic website after learning the above go to learn PHP
7. You will need to learn a database, MySQL is the best IMO
8. Unless you want to do all you MySQL in the command prompt you will need to learn myPHP or something equivalent.
9. Oh, and don't forget CSS.
10. And more....... |
I'd move CSS up to number 4 and you forgot to mention Flash. ;) |
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04/07/2008 10:45:15 PM · #10 |
| Depends why you want it and for what purpose. If it's just you & family then just jump in and play... find sites you like and look at the source for what you like. There are a number of decent sites for learning the syntax & some good books. If it's for a real purpose then get someone who does it properly. Yeah, I hear the cry's of anyone can do it but just like photg... no difference between pro & weekend worrier right :-) |
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04/07/2008 10:50:04 PM · #11 |
Thanks for the help guys. The site would be to display and sell my photography. I currently work through a gallery's website, but I eventually want to go my own. The reason to do it myself is that having someone else design it could literally eat up five years of profits (as I am not selling very much at the moment). I have time anyway and sort of have the goal in my mind of going live when I have a portfolio of about 100 photos I'd consider sellable. Right now I doubt I have half that.
I'd thought about going with templates that are available out there but didn't know how alterable they are. I have a few ideas I think would be neat to incorporate. As an example, instead of having a different display of color/B&W/sepia for the same picture, I'd like to have a text box to the right that says something like "rollover for B&W" and "Rollover for sepia". Then they can see the picture change before their eyes. It would also condense the portfolio so it doesn't look like I have 300 photos when I really have 100 photos with 3 different versions of each. Anyway, just thoughts in my mind.
Message edited by author 2008-04-07 22:51:40. |
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04/07/2008 11:04:10 PM · #12 |
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
I'd thought about going with templates that are available out there but didn't know how alterable they are. I have a few ideas I think would be neat to incorporate. As an example, instead of having a different display of color/B&W/sepia for the same picture, I'd like to have a text box to the right that says something like "rollover for B&W" and "Rollover for sepia". Then they can see the picture change before their eyes. It would also condense the portfolio so it doesn't look like I have 300 photos when I really have 100 photos with 3 different versions of each. Anyway, just thoughts in my mind. |
This stuff is easy to do:
- Photoshop, for creation of site buttons and imagery
- ImageReady, for rollover animations
- Dreamweaver, to put it all together in a web page
- Lightbox, for creation of a flash gallery (optional)
The selling part isn't trivial but isn't rocket science either - just a case of plugging in some script behind the scenes (very easy with Paypal for example), and you can paste it into DW.
N
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04/07/2008 11:13:57 PM · #13 |
DrAchoo, it may not be as pricey as you would think, if you find the right people. I am really getting into learning flash pretty heavily, and am considering starting a small web design business- needing other websites to do build my portfolio, so I am currently doing it at a discount rate for people. Just find someone like that that you mesh with, and contact them (or me :) ), it may save you a lot of time and energy for little money.
However, here is the three things I learned first
HTML
Dreamweaver
Flash
from there, you have a firm grasp on everything, and then start to realize what else may be useful to know, and go from there!
Message edited by author 2008-04-07 23:15:22. |
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04/08/2008 10:31:09 AM · #14 |
Doc,
There are a lot of steps to creating a website other than the technical ones. Depending on your needs, many steps can be skipped. My opinion about web design is that there are many things to do:
1. You need to know what you are selling, and who the buyer is. You know you are selling photographs, but to who? What is your unique, compelling message that causes people to go to your site and buy your images?
2. You need "copy" as in "the text on the page that people read". The minimum is enough text to entice people to buy your photos, but if you want to be found in search engines, there's a lot more to do.
3. Website design-this is the look and feel, the menu structure, the artwork and photos that make up the framework of the site (as opposed to the photos you will be selling.) -- a good shortcut is to buy a template.
4. Implementation-this is everything including getting a domain name and host, setting up a payment method and shopping cart, coding the HTML, flash, etc. Again, you can buy tools that make this easy, like Dreamweaver. A template may enable you to have flash without knowing how to code flash.
5. SEO, or Search Engine Optimization. This is an optional step, depending on how you will advertise your website. Do you want to show up in the first few pages of Google, Yahoo!, etc? SEO is an ever-changing art.
6. Maintenance. The Internet changes rapidly. While your site may be great today, in five years it will look dated.
----
As far as the "putting together a website" that most of the posts in this thread discuss, it is impossible for some, and easy for others. If you can use Photoshop well, you can learn to use Dreamweaver or Expression Web.
As far as the HTML coding, just buy Dreamweaver ($399) or Expression Web. Each has its advantages. You will need to learn a little HTML, but most work can be done in the visual part of the editor, and its not much harder than putting together a word document or powerpoint presentation. Start out by creating a personal website, or some simple website for a charity.
When you're confident in your website "editing" ability, start your photo website by buying a template, there are lots of good photo website templates out there. Templates start at $40, but for what you're doing, you'll probably need to spend between $125 and $250.
Another option is to go with a CMS, like Joomla! or Drupal. But you will need to learn how to manage the CMS and find or buy the right template and shopping cart. The cost will probably be lower, but the learning curve is greater. And you won't have as much flexibility. Again, start small and progress to a more complicated site. |
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