Unbelievable: Copycat - DPChallenge Forums

Nikon AF Nikkor 50mm f/1.8D

04/07/2008 02:02:43 PM · #1

Some of you might know I've been working on a Clown-project in 2007. The project has been online for a while now. It contents the person behind the clown and a short biography, the clown with an expression and the clown at work with his or her specialty (balloons, magic, etc.) It was a fun project!

Today I received an email from one clown I've photographed for that project. He forwarded me an email he received.

It was from another photographer. That person wants to start a series of portraits. One from the person behind the clown, a short biography, and the clown at work.

Does that ring any bells?

The clown replied that he allready has been working on that same concept last year, and that he doesn't like copycats. The photographer claimed to never have seen my series, and says: everything has been photographed. It's purely coincedental!

Yeah, right. The fact that that photographer also has a link from someone I worked for, really doesn't help.

You know, getting inspiration from a series of photos is cool. But copying a WHOLE concept.. that's sad.

Pffff.. I'm a bit pissed right now.. haha, sorry for ranting, it has to get out of my system. Not sure if I'm gonna mail that photographer back..

Message edited by author 2008-04-07 14:03:26.

_eug

Nikon D50

04/07/2008 02:13:26 PM · #2

You mean I can't copy your "stitched fruit with screws' series? What if I switch to soda cans?

;)

Sorry to hear about your copycat, but you should be flattered. In other arts like painting, one learns by painting the masters. Some get so good at imitating the masters that they can't be differentiated by visual examination.

jeger

Canon EOS-5D

Canon EF 24-105mm f/4.0L IS

04/07/2008 02:24:25 PM · #3

I did see your series before and it was great.

I disagree that just because someone had the same idea that automatically means they have seen your work and are copying you. If you were able to come up with the idea on your own, what stops somebody else from doing the same?

UrfaK

Canon EOS-650/T4i Rebel

Canon EF-S 15-85mm f/3.5-5.6 IS USM

04/07/2008 02:34:03 PM · #4

People really don't have any scruples about taking 'inspiration' from other works. I was visiting my cousin's art school and whilst mingling around I was told in under no terms was I to show my stuff to certain individuals/teachers who were habitual 'inspiration' takers. They were known to use their pupil's ideas and flaunt them in exhibits all over the world. How demoralizaing is it for a student to see someone else take credit for their work. Nasty business, this stealing. Especially when you're too helpless to prevent it.

Citadel

Nikon D7500

Nikon AF-S NIKKOR 24-70mm f/2.8G ED

04/07/2008 02:34:26 PM · #5

In one sense I would agree with the copycat. All art is derivative in some respect. However, from what you indicate this is more than just coincidental. That would take it from being derivative to plain intellectual larceny. Hopefully the a$$clown just takes pictures of himself...

Message edited by author 2008-04-07 14:53:07.

04/07/2008 03:53:46 PM · #6

Ok I am gonna start a debate here. Really what is the problem of a person doing this? IMO it is the same as seeing someones work on here and trying to duplicate it. Nothing wrong with any of it. That is how we learn right? If I saw your idea and liked it I may try to do it as well. Why should that be a problem?

04/07/2008 04:06:56 PM · #7

Originally posted by rex:

Looking at this in an objective way, I agree with you.

But I can't look at it objective. That project feels like my own "baby" (sometimes I have that, yes ;)), especially after working on it for 6 months.

I don't know, it just doesn't feel right..

04/07/2008 04:18:49 PM · #8

Well if someone wants to copy your work then I say by all means enjoy the fact that your work was so good that someone wanted to duplicate it. If you do it better than them as I am sure you will/did because you are ~~good~~great at what you do then people will know. Take it as a compliment.

Do you think The Beatles, Rolling Stones or any other music act gets mad when someone wants to redo a song they wrote. I know if i were in their shoes I would be proud that my music/art has touched someone else in a way that is unimaginable.

Nikon AF-S DX NIKKOR 18-200mm f/3.5-5.6G ED VR II

04/07/2008 04:22:19 PM · #9

yes, I know you're right. It probably will just take a couple of days before I really realise that and take it as a compliment.

Thanks for talking some common sense into me ;-)

socalsteve

Nikon D300

04/07/2008 04:35:54 PM · #10

Originally posted by rex:

Do you think The Beatles, Rolling Stones or any other music act gets mad when someone wants to redo a song they wrote. I know if i were in their shoes I would be proud that my music/art has touched someone else in a way that is unimaginable.

Actually, if someone takes their work and does something with it, they at least have to pay for it, and the group is acknowledged and known to be the originator. Not so in this case.

I agree though, copying is good and educational, as long as you are not profiting monetarily or by reputation by claiming you thought of it and thus stealing the credit.

Dr.Confuser

Nikon D800

Nikon AF-S NIKKOR 24-70mm f/2.8G ED

04/07/2008 04:40:01 PM · #11

There was only one "first" Elvis painting on black velvet, but there have been thousands of copies. :)

You are too young to take yourself so seriously. You haven't cornered the market on good ideas. Many many people gin up the same ideas independantly. So it isn't necessarily a "copycat."

And if it is a copycat, relax, "Immitation is the Sincerest Form of Flattery." The key to success is in the execution and any copycat will have to work really hard at executing as well as you have. You've got a year's head start on any copycat. I am confident you can innovate ahead of them. Keep doing it better and better. It'll be hard for them to keep up.

Message edited by author 2008-04-07 16:41:33.

cujee

Canon EOS-30D

Canon EF 70-200mm f/4.0L USM

04/07/2008 04:49:46 PM · #12

If someone was trying to duplicate my work, which I highly doubt will ever happen :P, I would be flattered. But if they made large amounts of profit from my blood and sweat, that's a different story.

Nikon AF Nikkor 50mm f/1.8D

04/07/2008 04:56:21 PM · #13

Originally posted by Dr.Confuser:

Don't be so sure.

Read This

Jason_Cross

Nikon D50

04/07/2008 05:17:29 PM · #14

Be glad that you are worth being copied. Someday I hope that I could be copied, but for the most part that would not happen.

Dr.Confuser

Nikon D800

Nikon AF-S NIKKOR 24-70mm f/2.8G ED

04/07/2008 05:23:27 PM · #15

Originally posted by Spazmo99:

Originally posted by Dr.Confuser:
There was only one "first" Elvis painting on black velvet, but there have been thousands of copies. :)

You are too young to take yourself so seriously. You haven't cornered the market on good ideas. Many many people gin up the same ideas independantly. So it isn't necessarily a "copycat."

And if it is a copycat, relax, "Immitation is the Sincerest Form of Flattery." The key to success is in the execution and any copycat will have to work really hard at executing as well as you have. You've got a year's head start on any copycat. I am confident you can innovate ahead of them. Keep doing it better and better. It'll be hard for them to keep up.

Don't be so sure.

Read This

Good reference on copyright law and a good brief refresher for us all. Thanks.

"Keep in mind that copyright law protects the expression of an idea, not the underlying idea or the style."

Unless copyright is registered in advance of infringement, liability appears to be capped at actual loss (e.g. lost profits) plus attorney fees.

If registered, and/or if

biteme is selling the images (don't honestly remember) then I suppose a sharp attorney might make a claim.

But it'd be hard to prove infringement unless actual

biteme images were stolen, sold, or incorporated in whole or in part into other works.

The great thing about the law is that it is a collection of opinions and on any given day, the body of opinion is interpreted by judge and/or jury when informed by arguments of the attorneys, for or against the plaintive. Is this a great country, or what?

ETA: You all should be scared that two photogs with an Fisher Price Kid-tough Digital and an iPhone for cameras are informing you about the law.

Message edited by author 2008-04-07 17:27:23.

_eug

Nikon D50

Nikon AF Nikkor 50mm f/1.8D

04/07/2008 05:28:51 PM · #16

Don't forget that Han lives in the Netherlands where copyright law may differ.

04/07/2008 05:30:27 PM · #17

Originally posted by Dr.Confuser:

Originally posted by Spazmo99:

Originally posted by Dr.Confuser:
There was only one "first" Elvis painting on black velvet, but there have been thousands of copies. :)

You are too young to take yourself so seriously. You haven't cornered the market on good ideas. Many many people gin up the same ideas independantly. So it isn't necessarily a "copycat."

And if it is a copycat, relax, "Immitation is the Sincerest Form of Flattery." The key to success is in the execution and any copycat will have to work really hard at executing as well as you have. You've got a year's head start on any copycat. I am confident you can innovate ahead of them. Keep doing it better and better. It'll be hard for them to keep up.

Don't be so sure.

Read This

Good reference on copyright law and a good brief refresher for us all. Thanks.

ETA: You all should be scared that two photogs with an Fisher Price Kid-tough Digital and an iPhone for cameras are informing yo about the law.

"Keep in mind that copyright law protects the expression of an idea, not the underlying idea or the style."

Unless copyright is registered in advance of infringement, liability appears to be capped at actual loss (e.g. lost profits) plus attorney fees.

If registered, and/or if biteme is selling the images (don't honestly remember) then I suppose a sharp attorney might make a claim.

But it'd be hard to prove infringement unless actual biteme images were stolen, sold, or incorporated in whole or in part into other works.

The great thing about the law is that it is a collection of opinions and on any given day, the body of opinion is interpreted by judge and/or jury when informed by arguments of the attorneys, for or against the plaintive. Is this a great country, or what?

I believe that the OP is in the EU, not in the US.

Also, there was a case in the EU I believe where a design firm was found guilty of infringing on a photo by sketching the original that he got from a stock site, but did not want to pay the licensing fee, and then hiring a photographer to make a photo from the sketch. It was a photo of a couple on a carousel.

04/07/2008 05:37:35 PM · #18

I'm not planning on taking actions on this. That was never the plan, so maybe this topic is going the wrong way a little bit..

when I wrote the first post in this topic, I was just pissed and wanted to vent my feelings. The series isn't made yet by the other photographer, so I'm just gonna see what's gonna happen.

04/07/2008 05:39:00 PM · #19

Originally posted by cujee:

If someone was trying to duplicate my work, which I highly doubt will ever happen :P, I would be flattered. But if they made large amounts of profit from my blood and sweat, that's a different story.

How would they make large amounts of profit from YOUR blood and sweat if THEY did it? So because someone thought they could make money by cutting someone grass and I started a Landscaping Business then I would somehow owe them some of the money I made? Come on get real.

Canon EF 70-200mm f/4.0L USM

04/07/2008 05:40:39 PM · #20

Also interesting

Visual Plagiarism Case This is the one I was thinking of.

And another discussion on visual plagiarism

cujee

Canon EOS-30D

04/07/2008 06:25:49 PM · #21

Originally posted by rex:

Originally posted by cujee:
If someone was trying to duplicate my work, which I highly doubt will ever happen :P, I would be flattered. But if they made large amounts of profit from my blood and sweat, that's a different story.

How would they make large amounts of profit from YOUR blood and sweat if THEY did it? So because someone thought they could make money by cutting someone grass and I started a Landscaping Business then I would somehow owe them some of the money I made? Come on get real.

?? I was saying if I did a project on my own for no money, simply just for fun for example, then someone copies it without me knowing and makes money off of it, i'd be angry. Besides I'm just some punk kid, i'm probably dumb and have no idea what you're talking about. Relax.

04/07/2008 06:27:16 PM · #22

I am relaxed it was just a question. I was just asking how is it your blood and sweat if they do it?

Message edited by author 2008-04-07 18:27:55.