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DPChallenge Forums >> Business of Photography >> Copyright Usage Website Nightmare !
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 04/03/2008 07:10:13 AM · #1
Simple question, complex answer.

I took photographs of a property my client was selling.
The images were used to promote renovation work carried out which my client has placed on his website with my permission.

The guy who brought the property is telling him to take the images off the website as he does not have permission to use them.
"But I hold the copyright and gave him permission"

So where do we all stand?

Can the new owner of the property force the property developer to remover the images?

Love to hear your answer.

Kevin
 04/03/2008 07:22:34 AM · #2
i think if its for editorial use then he doesnt have to take it down..but Im not sure about how it falls under having to have a property "release" someone more qualified in legal should be able to answer this.

I think it would just be alot less hassle to just take the photos down and be done with it. Just out of curiosity..did the new owner find out about the property via the website?
 04/03/2008 07:23:56 AM · #3
you took the pictures, you own the copyright. it's not complicated at all. just because somebody bought what you took pictures of doens't give them any rights over the pictures!
 04/03/2008 08:25:00 AM · #4
This is interesting. Makes me think about Property Releases that need to be obtained for stock photo sales...

If I take a photograph of an old rustic barn, obtain a Property Release from the owner to sell the image as a stock photo, then the property changes hands 6 or 12 months later - is the Property Release still valid?
 04/03/2008 08:33:28 AM · #5
Owning the images (ie copyright) and having permision to take pictures (ie on private property) or use the property portrayed in a picture (ie property release) are 2 different things.

If memory serves me correctly, in the US anyway, if images of the property were taken and permission from the owner given then its the responsibility of the current owner to relay that information to the new owner under the terms of the sale. I dont beleive it affects your ability to use the images. The new owner could have recourse against the seller though if the fact that the property release was given in the past and not revieled to a potential buyer.
 04/03/2008 08:52:30 AM · #6
I agree that if you took the pictures legally, then they're yours. Is the address of the property listed along with the pictures, e.g., "interior shots of 123 Main St"? If so, take that down, just leave the pics.
 04/03/2008 09:55:17 AM · #7
Think of it this way:

What if the property was a (vehicle, boat, piece of woodwork, whatever) - would it matter? The rightful owner / agent gave you permission to photograph something, and you did.

Just because they do not own the property any more, doesn't mean they didn't own it at one time. If you owned a car 10 years ago & sold it, would you have to give up any photos from the time when you had it?
 04/03/2008 10:10:40 AM · #8
I would thing it fulls into the public access, if it's there and your not violateing trespass law you can shoot & do with it as you please as long as there is no address that can be cause for the peoples privacy to be violated
 04/03/2008 12:09:35 PM · #9
Originally posted by Frankie_Lv:
I would thing it fulls into the public access, if it's there and your not violateing trespass law you can shoot & do with it as you please as long as there is no address that can be cause for the peoples privacy to be violated

Not true. For Commercial Use of the images you need a Property Release from the owner at the time the image was taken.
 04/03/2008 12:59:49 PM · #10
I am not a lawyer and am speaking personally, not on behalf of DPC.

Did the person requesting removal own the property at the time the images were taken?

Did you have permission from the person who owned the property at the time the images were taken?

If the answer to the first question is no, and the second is yes, I believe the complainant has no legal recourse.

~Terry
 04/03/2008 01:04:43 PM · #11
Originally posted by SPG:
Simple question, complex answer.

I took photographs of a property my client was selling.
The images were used to promote renovation work carried out which my client has placed on his website with my permission.

The guy who brought the property is telling him to take the images off the website as he does not have permission to use them.
"But I hold the copyright and gave him permission"

So where do we all stand?

Can the new owner of the property force the property developer to remover the images?

Love to hear your answer.

Kevin


You may find this article helpful. ASMP Property and Model Release

Message edited by author 2008-04-03 13:26:09.
 04/04/2008 06:43:45 AM · #12
Thanks Guys,

I have passed on your comments to my client.

It appears that as he was the owner of the property at the time when I took the pictures, with his full permission and that there is no identification of the property address (by way of no infringement of security) there isn't much the new owner can do about it.

I really appreciate your help and advice, of course I understand they are all individual thoughts but you do all seem to be heading in the same direction.

Thanks once again.

Kevin
 04/04/2008 08:43:12 AM · #13
Originally posted by SPG:
Thanks Guys,

I have passed on your comments to my client.

It appears that as he was the owner of the property at the time when I took the pictures, with his full permission and that there is no identification of the property address (by way of no infringement of security) there isn't much the new owner can do about it.

I really appreciate your help and advice, of course I understand they are all individual thoughts but you do all seem to be heading in the same direction.

Thanks once again.

Kevin


In all things legal common sense and general consensus doesnt keep you out of a court room. It sounds to me like you have no worries of actually losing a court case but if someone is determined enough they can find a way to drag you through the system even if they wont win. Some will do it out of spite even if it end up costing them more.

I love photography but the legal aspects when it comes to using images for anything other than personal enjoyment is a real turnof sometimes.
04/04/2008 01:24:59 PM · #14
As previously stated by other, this is not a copyright issue. It is a usage/publication issue. If the legal owner at the time the images were taken gave you a release to publish the images then you have the right to publish the images with in the guidelines of the release.

State laws are different with regard to what has to be divulged during a sale of realestate, althoug it is getting very cumbersome everywhere. I don't know if a property release is something that is require to be divulged or not but if that is an issue then it is between the current and previous owners, there realestate brokers, and their lawyers. You still have the rights spelled out in your property release.

NOTE: I am not a lawyer or realestate broker.
 04/04/2008 02:01:56 PM · #15
Both of these posts are slightly off.

Originally posted by Kaveran:
In all things legal common sense and general consensus doesnt keep you out of a court room. It sounds to me like you have no worries of actually losing a court case but if someone is determined enough they can find a way to drag you through the system even if they wont win. Some will do it out of spite even if it end up costing them more.


The OP/photographer has no legal liability here. He's neither the previous owner nor the owner of the website. He's simply asking on behalf of the previous owner who is also the owner of the website.

Originally posted by AllgoodPics:
As previously stated by other, this is not a copyright issue. It is a usage/publication issue. If the legal owner at the time the images were taken gave you a release to publish the images then you have the right to publish the images with in the guidelines of the release.


Again, the OP/photographer is not the owner of the website. He's simply asking on behalf of the previous owner who is also the owner of the website. Do I need to give MYSELF a release to use a photograph of a property that I own/owned? I think not.

NEXT!
 04/04/2008 02:08:52 PM · #16
Originally posted by _eug:
Do I need to give MYSELF a release to use a photograph of a property that I own/owned? I think not.

No, but if you submit a picture of your house or yourself for stock usage (by others), you will be required to sign and submit a release, even though you are both the owner/model and the photographer.
 04/04/2008 09:40:44 PM · #17
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Originally posted by _eug:
Do I need to give MYSELF a release to use a photograph of a property that I own/owned? I think not.

No, but if you submit a picture of your house or yourself for stock usage (by others), you will be required to sign and submit a release, even though you are both the owner/model and the photographer.

True, but that's not quite the same situation. That would be selling the image for someone other than myself to use.
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