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04/02/2008 10:53:38 AM · #26 |
When I see stuff like this I have a much greater understanding of why films like the one in the OP get made.
It paints all Muslims with the brush of hatred, violence, intolerance and fanaticism. |
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04/02/2008 11:26:53 AM · #27 |
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
When I see stuff like this I have a much greater understanding of why films like the one in the OP get made.
It paints all Muslims with the brush of hatred, violence, intolerance and fanaticism. |
I was trying my best to avoid this conversation from the start, but such misunderstanding leaves me no choice but to defend my faith.
To all who are seeking the truth about Islam:
The Word "Islam"
The "root" of the word "Islam" in Arabic is SALAMA which is the origin of the words Peace & / or Submission, a submission to God and peace to all humanity. It is, thus, no wonder why the salutation in Islam is: "Al-Salamu Alaikum or Peace on You."
In this regard, prophet Mohammad ordered his fellow Muslims to salute others Muslims or non-Muslims with peace when he said: "Peace Before Speech"
It is a Rule in Islam that during war time, an enemy warrior who pronounces the word peace is totally immune.
No Coercion In Islam
Unlike many other religions where people were offered either conversion and peace or death, Islam came with the just word of our creator. In Quran 2:256; God said "Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from Error..." There are many other verses in the Quran that deals with the nature of spreading God's message. One of my favorites which I keep quoting is Verse 10:99 "If it had been thy Lord's Will, they would all have believed, all who are on earth! Wilt thou then compel mankind, against their will, to believe!" These verses and many others show how much emphasis Islam places on the mind of people, Muslims or non-Muslims.
Justice & Fairness to Non-Muslims
In This regard, Muslims are governed by the rules that the relationship with non-Muslims should be based on justice, mutual respect, cooperation, and communication. The Quran is very explicit about the justice part of the relationship when God stated in Verse 60:08 "Allah forbids you not, with regard to those who fight you not for (your) Faith nor drive you out of your homes, from dealing kindly and justly with them: for Allah loveth those who are just."
The Ultimate Justice
Another prominent example that I keep referring to concerning the just treatment of Islam to non-Muslims; is the fact that while a husband is allowed to ask his Muslim wife not to go to the Mosque; he has no right to ask his wife to go to Church or Synagogue if it happens that the wife is a Christian or a Jew.
MISREPRESENTATION of Anti-Islam Γ’Γ’ Which is our case here with this film Γ’Γ’
Anti-Muslims resort to a deceitful misrepresentation when they misquote the Quranic verses of the second chapter. They claim that Quran promoted killing the infidels wherever you find them. Indeed, this is true but only if the infidels attack Muslims. Here are the verses complete:
Quran 2:190-193.
Fight in the cause of Allah those who fight you, but do not transgress limits; for Allah loveth not transgressors.
And slay them wherever ye catch them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out; for tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter; but fight them not at the Sacred Mosque, unless they (first) fight you there; but if they fight you, slay them. Such is the reward of those who suppress faith.
But if they cease, Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.
And fight them on until there is no more tumult or oppression, and there prevail justice and faith in Allah; but if they cease, let there be no hostility except to those who
practice oppression.
Now regarding your post, as you read above, this is the concept of peace in Islam. Islam set the road, the road is clear and well established, But if someone is driving the wrong way, which one would blame, the road .. or the driver?
I mean by drivers people like those who you sent the link for. You are judging above one billion human Muslim that following what I posted above, by what few fanatic does.
Sorry for the long post, I tried to cover as much as related in here.
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04/02/2008 11:51:02 AM · #28 |
Originally posted by EL-GHOOL:
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
When I see stuff like this I have a much greater understanding of why films like the one in the OP get made.
It paints all Muslims with the brush of hatred, violence, intolerance and fanaticism. |
I was trying my best to avoid this conversation from the start, but such misunderstanding leaves me no choice but to defend my faith.
To all who are seeking the truth about Islam:
The Word "Islam"
The "root" of the word "Islam" in Arabic is SALAMA which is the origin of the words Peace & / or Submission, a submission to God and peace to all humanity. It is, thus, no wonder why the salutation in Islam is: "Al-Salamu Alaikum or Peace on You."
In this regard, prophet Mohammad ordered his fellow Muslims to salute others Muslims or non-Muslims with peace when he said: "Peace Before Speech"
It is a Rule in Islam that during war time, an enemy warrior who pronounces the word peace is totally immune.
No Coercion In Islam
Unlike many other religions where people were offered either conversion and peace or death, Islam came with the just word of our creator. In Quran 2:256; God said "Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from Error..." There are many other verses in the Quran that deals with the nature of spreading God's message. One of my favorites which I keep quoting is Verse 10:99 "If it had been thy Lord's Will, they would all have believed, all who are on earth! Wilt thou then compel mankind, against their will, to believe!" These verses and many others show how much emphasis Islam places on the mind of people, Muslims or non-Muslims.
Justice & Fairness to Non-Muslims
In This regard, Muslims are governed by the rules that the relationship with non-Muslims should be based on justice, mutual respect, cooperation, and communication. The Quran is very explicit about the justice part of the relationship when God stated in Verse 60:08 "Allah forbids you not, with regard to those who fight you not for (your) Faith nor drive you out of your homes, from dealing kindly and justly with them: for Allah loveth those who are just."
The Ultimate Justice
Another prominent example that I keep referring to concerning the just treatment of Islam to non-Muslims; is the fact that while a husband is allowed to ask his Muslim wife not to go to the Mosque; he has no right to ask his wife to go to Church or Synagogue if it happens that the wife is a Christian or a Jew.
MISREPRESENTATION of Anti-Islam Γ’Γ’ Which is our case here with this film Γ’Γ’
Anti-Muslims resort to a deceitful misrepresentation when they misquote the Quranic verses of the second chapter. They claim that Quran promoted killing the infidels wherever you find them. Indeed, this is true but only if the infidels attack Muslims. Here are the verses complete:
Quran 2:190-193.
Fight in the cause of Allah those who fight you, but do not transgress limits; for Allah loveth not transgressors.
And slay them wherever ye catch them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out; for tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter; but fight them not at the Sacred Mosque, unless they (first) fight you there; but if they fight you, slay them. Such is the reward of those who suppress faith.
But if they cease, Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.
And fight them on until there is no more tumult or oppression, and there prevail justice and faith in Allah; but if they cease, let there be no hostility except to those who
practice oppression.
Now regarding your post, as you read above, this is the concept of peace in Islam. Islam set the road, the road is clear and well established, But if someone is driving the wrong way, which one would blame, the road .. or the driver?
I mean by drivers people like those who you sent the link for. You are judging above one billion human Muslim that following what I posted above, by what few fanatic does.
Sorry for the long post, I tried to cover as much as related in here. |
Please do not mistake my post and link above as an attack by me on Islam.
I understand that Islam is a faith of peace, but the face of Islam that is shown repeatedly to non-Muslims, especially in the West, is the face of the extremists like those referenced in the article. Stories of jihad, the actions of men like al-Sadr and his followers, the Taliban, alQaeda etc. have given and continue to give Islam a real image problem in the eyes of those who do not understand. Those people, their followers and their actions have placed a stain on the faith of Islam. |
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04/02/2008 12:00:00 PM · #29 |
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
When I see stuff like this I have a much greater understanding of why films like the one in the OP get made.
It paints all Muslims with the brush of hatred, violence, intolerance and fanaticism. |
Oh dear, that guy's churning out a load of crap..
I'll tell you one thing, when anyone and I mean anyone talks about islam a)he should have a reference.. Everything in Islam has to have a reference b)each reference has a specific context.. [when and why each reference is supposed to have been narrated] and each reference has it's level of validity.. Some amazingly interesting stuff is on the internet that muslims won't even consider valid because it directly contradicts the more valid references.. so not everthing with a number and reference is true..
He won't be able to provide any references to this because one doesn't exist. It's his opinion of wants he to think.. You can't be that bitchy and be a muslim.. that's a paradox..
In real Islam you just can't talk about women like that.. Men may want to believe that.. I think it's a guy thing but seriously try reading a basic islamic studies book and you may want to gouge your eyes out at the amount of time the 'respect women' seems to be written...
Hadis (saying of prophet [pbuh])
Γ’He who hurts a Non-Muslim citizen of a Muslim state, I am his adversary, and I shall be his adversary on the Day of a Judgment.Γ’ (Bukhari)
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04/02/2008 12:32:26 PM · #30 |
Originally posted by UrfaTheGreat:
[In real Islam you just can't talk about women like that.. Men may want to believe that.. I think it's a guy thing... |
... Seems that generalizations are the order of the day.
Ray |
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04/02/2008 12:38:25 PM · #31 |
Originally posted by UrfaTheGreat:
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
When I see stuff like this I have a much greater understanding of why films like the one in the OP get made.
It paints all Muslims with the brush of hatred, violence, intolerance and fanaticism. |
Oh dear, that guy's churning out a load of crap..
I'll tell you one thing, when anyone and I mean anyone talks about islam a)he should have a reference.. Everything in Islam has to have a reference b)each reference has a specific context.. [when and why each reference is supposed to have been narrated] and each reference has it's level of validity.. Some amazingly interesting stuff is on the internet that muslims won't even consider valid because it directly contradicts the more valid references.. so not everthing with a number and reference is true..
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Unfortunately for Muslims, that load of crap, and all the other loads of crap, are what defines face of Islam for many people in the West and are what shapes their opinion of Islam and Muslims. |
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04/02/2008 12:50:11 PM · #32 |
Originally posted by RayEthier:
Originally posted by UrfaTheGreat:
[In real Islam you just can't talk about women like that.. Men may want to believe that.. I think it's a guy thing... |
... Seems that generalizations are the order of the day.
Ray |
Oh, indeed they are.. I tend to talk and thus write purely in vague generalizations..that's what I do best.. I can fine tune and solidify what I'm saying but I'm not eloquent enough.. perhaps 'culturally cultivated male chauvinism twisting and filtering everything that comes their way' would be appropriate.
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04/02/2008 12:56:04 PM · #33 |
whoops!
Message edited by author 2008-04-02 12:58:37.
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04/02/2008 01:16:15 PM · #34 |
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
Originally posted by UrfaTheGreat:
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
When I see stuff like this I have a much greater understanding of why films like the one in the OP get made.
It paints all Muslims with the brush of hatred, violence, intolerance and fanaticism. |
Oh dear, that guy's churning out a load of crap..
I'll tell you one thing, when anyone and I mean anyone talks about islam a)he should have a reference.. Everything in Islam has to have a reference b)each reference has a specific context.. [when and why each reference is supposed to have been narrated] and each reference has it's level of validity.. Some amazingly interesting stuff is on the internet that muslims won't even consider valid because it directly contradicts the more valid references.. so not everthing with a number and reference is true..
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Unfortunately for Muslims, that load of crap, and all the other loads of crap, are what defines face of Islam for many people in the West and are what shapes their opinion of Islam and Muslims. |
I don't blame them.
Have you ever seen any more religiously inclined muslim talk about pollution or the environment. It's a fact that "cleanliness is a part of faith". We pray five times a day. Before each time we wash our hands, face and feet. We're supposed to keep our cities clean. We're supposed to protect and plant trees. Have you ever seen fatwas against people who litter. This is an equally important 'religious duty' amongst all those that muslims are more known for so why not. Because it doesn't hold any political weight. You can't instigate peope or anger them by talking about carbon footprints. People filter it out just for themselves.. deeming it unimportant.. Religion doesn't make it a lesser issue, they do..
Islam has turned into what I call an irrefuteable argument. You hold up the religion card out in a public forum and state so and so is a religious travesty and no one can challenge you. reason 1. Religion may be what governs people's live but there are a precious few who can differentiate between fact and local traditions or even know the basics. And do not be fooled by the beard. Not every muslim with a beard is some kind of scholar or a fundamentalist [besides you can't be a fundamentalist without knowing the fundamentals O_o]
reason 2. Nobody wants to be lynched..
The mob mentality or the 'I'm right' situation comes purely from the lack of education. Inspite of the Islamic stance of how important education is, it's seriously neglected. [I am specific to my own country] Some due to poverty, while others find it too new fangled and some form of white brain washing. Ironically, their own methods are stuffed with stereotype and no mobility of thought. I was hearing of some strange fatwas from some remote areas about ignoring 'white' education and not letting their kids get vaccinated :( If that were the case then why were the 13th century muslims so proficient in maths, physics and were expermenting by perfoming autopsies. Like I said before irrefutable argument once again. The common, uneducated lot doesn't know about the past and keeping them ignorant helps... You and I can only guess how.
And I've lost any proper cohesiveness.. Brilliant.. Half it probably won't make sense [or most for some] These are just my opinions just like the guy who made the video.. I could go on forever or even start on the women issue *dun dun dun* but I doubt anyone's interested.. Also, I don't even remember what point I was supposed to make. So don't lynch me for being for being completely random and irrelevant..
Message edited by author 2008-04-02 14:43:13.
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04/18/2008 07:58:22 PM · #35 |
Originally posted by UrfaTheGreat:
I could go on forever or even start on the women issue *dun dun dun* but I doubt anyone's interested.. |
I am. :) |
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04/19/2008 12:20:22 AM · #36 |
People can (and have) justified all sorts of things by quoting Bible passages out of context. I imagine that it's just as easy to do with the Koran.
As a Christian, I have some fundamental disagreements with Islam and the Koran. But the Muslims I have known (and, in some cases, counted as friends) have mostly been kind people who consider the acts of Al-Qaeda repellent, just as I consider the acts of the "Christian" Crusaders repellent. Trying to label all Muslims as terrorists or a threat to domestic security might be convenient for some peoples' political agendas, but it doesn't have any basis in reality.
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