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03/27/2008 03:32:19 PM · #1 |
Mild Disclaimer: This has nothing to do with photography or DPC, I just have no other way to talk to Canadians.
An open question for those who live in Canada:
What are your thoughts on your current healthcare system?
I've been doing a little research into how it works and what not, and have started to form my own opionon (which I'm not going to talk about as not to taint the question). There are several US President Canadates who have plans to nationalize healthcare and from I can gather they are trying to reproduce Canada's system.
-CW
p.s. - please don't hijack this thread and make it a political debate. |
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03/27/2008 03:38:58 PM · #2 |
Our health care system is a bit disappointing from time-to-time, in that by its nature (government-led) we cannot afford the latest and greatest equipment. On the flip side, however, there is much less competition between hospitals and doctors. I believe doctors and health care scientists should earn a lot of money for what they do, but I don't think it should be a business built on profit.
In addition to this, my wife has to take a chemo that would cost more than $100 per day, every day, to purchase from the drug companies. Luckily, it is covered in Canada (well, Alberta specifically).
Message edited by author 2008-03-27 15:39:46.
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03/27/2008 03:41:01 PM · #3 |
Originally posted by geoffb:
Our health care system is a bit disappointing from time-to-time, in that by its nature (government-led) we cannot afford the latest and greatest equipment. On the flip side, however, there is much less competition between hospitals and doctors. I believe doctors and health care scientists should earn a lot of money for what they do, but I don't think it should be a business built on profit.
In addition to this, my wife has to take a chemo that would cost more than $100 per day, every day, to purchase from the drug companies. Luckily, it is covered in Canada (well, Alberta specifically). |
What was her experience like from diagnoises to remedy?
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03/27/2008 03:46:11 PM · #4 |
Originally posted by chris48083:
Originally posted by geoffb:
Our health care system is a bit disappointing from time-to-time, in that by its nature (government-led) we cannot afford the latest and greatest equipment. On the flip side, however, there is much less competition between hospitals and doctors. I believe doctors and health care scientists should earn a lot of money for what they do, but I don't think it should be a business built on profit.
In addition to this, my wife has to take a chemo that would cost more than $100 per day, every day, to purchase from the drug companies. Luckily, it is covered in Canada (well, Alberta specifically). |
What was her experience like from diagnoises to remedy? |
In hindsight, everything was handled quickly and efficiently; it truly felt like she was a number one priority. (Although at the time, it seemed like an eternity.)
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03/27/2008 04:11:04 PM · #5 |
it works ..
yes you have to wait occasionally & i have heard stories of 3-8 hour waits ..
but that is not the norm ..
it does cover EVERYBODY ..
some diagnostic tests can be had quicker if you pay
yes - we do pay for it in higher taxes but its there if we need it &
eventually as we get older we depend on it ..
the view of "Sicko" is not to far off the mark ..
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03/27/2008 04:34:10 PM · #6 |
Universal healthcare is what we call what we (still) have. It's, particularly, a liberal (liberals are understood as aligned with the Liberal Party here) protege. In recent times, as money grew shorter and as the population aged, a "tier system" has been considered by some. In a tier system, certain institutions and functions would be privatized, allowing those who can afford it immediate access, while shortening the overall waiting queue. This "option" is hotly contested and, of course, contrary to the spirit of "universal" health care. The tier system is, predominantly but not entirely, favoured by those aligned with the Conservative Party.
Even Germany, the most "universal" of universal health care systems in the world, has had to entrench some private clinics now.
Personally, I think, that the only way to keep universal health care and other desirable social benefits viable for future generations, is to completely redesign our respective economies to accommodate "the people", as opposed to goods profiting a privileged few.
Message edited by author 2008-03-27 16:34:38. |
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03/27/2008 04:35:18 PM · #7 |
In a way it’s a tough question to answer. If it’s the only system you have experienced, then your perspective is very internal. The one thing I can say, is that I or my family never have to doubt about getting treatment at the hospital. All we do is show our health card and then wait. And yes sometimes that can take a long time if we are at the emergency department. If we are seeing our family doctor for a scheduled appointment then its not a problem. Unfortunately I think our system is burdened by people seeing doctors for “trivial” reasons. In some ways it’s too easy to see a doctor. The hard call is what’s trivial and what’s not! My company also has an excellent drug plan that covers a lot of drugs not covered by the system.
Bruce |
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03/27/2008 04:52:17 PM · #8 |
I agree, it's hard to have a viewpoint about a health care system I've experienced my whole life. When I watched "Columbine" and saw Michael Moore interviewing a guy coming out of a hospital (somewhere in Canada, here in Ontario I think), he asked the guy what his problem was, how it went, then asked how much it was. The guy was taken aback, and said something like, "Er, uh, nothing." I was taken aback by the question too, until it was explained to me why it was poignant.
That was the first time I actually really realized what it meant to have universal health care. I had no idea you'd have to actually pay money at a hospital to get a broken limb set, to get stitched up, or whatever. The idea seems weird and brutal to me, and sounds kind of like asking for money to breathe good air. |
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03/27/2008 05:03:37 PM · #9 |
| My first "thought" is that I am extremely grateful for it. My second is that it (thanks, Tommy Douglas) is what makes this a great country. On the flip side it means a lot of bureaucracy and paperwork for the medical profession, and of course it isn't perfect or thorough. Some things are not covered: teeth, eyecare and prescriptions - though the last two get some assistance. A very long time ago, when my grandfather was in practice it was the custom - or his custom at any rate - to charge what the patient could afford. - Have we come a long way? Or not? |
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03/27/2008 05:05:15 PM · #10 |
hmm this is interesting, ive seen alot of videos supporting both sides, thanks for you input.
i know geoff mentioned his wife with chemo, but have any of you had a serious health problem (beyound a nose cold or cut...)? |
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03/27/2008 05:13:17 PM · #11 |
Originally posted by chris48083:
hmm this is interesting, ive seen alot of videos supporting both sides, thanks for you input.
i know geoff mentioned his wife with chemo, but have any of you had a serious health problem (beyound a nose cold or cut...)? |
Me, not too serious, broken arm, many broken toes for some reason, I have had bronchitis, pneumonia, kidney problems, lymph gland issues when I was young, and lots of other stuff. My dad has had triple bypass surgery, carotid artery cleanout surgery (not sure what that's called), cataract surgery (my mom had that twice), plus all the kids my family have had -- in hospital. Nobody paid anything. My dad's experience with his cardiologists has been excellent. |
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03/27/2008 05:16:31 PM · #12 |
I would rather our health care system than that of the US. No one here goes bankrupt if they get cancer or are in a serious accident. Hospital stay is covered, you can have a child for free, all diagnostic tests like ultrasounds, MRI, x-rays, bloodwork, etc are free.
Now that I've said that, I will answer your last question. My partner was born with osteogenesis imprefecta (brittle bone disease). He has had hundreds (yes hundreds) of operations. All of his operations were paid for by our health care system. He spent months at a time in hospital growing up. No charge to his parents.
I know many people in the US have health insurance for such scenarios. But I've heard horror stories about HMO's and their refusal to cover certains tests and procedures. No test or procedure was ever denied my partner. The doctors decided what needed to be done and did it. No consulting with insurance companies or HMO's to get their approval beforehand. I think he had top-notch care and he hasn't needed an operation, procedure or any medications since he was 20. He is almost 40 now.
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03/27/2008 05:19:39 PM · #13 |
| I don't think its too serious but I have broken and shattered some bones as well as scratched a cornea here or there and was please with the service and over all care of the hospital, at times it can take a long time to be seen by a doctor but I have yet to actually need immediate attention and if you are in a great deal of pain you can always tell the person behind the desk and they usually are nice old ladies that get a nurse to give you some drugs :). In my opinion I would much prefer the Canadian health care system over the American one and I am quite mad about the whole Alberta letting private health care into are country (shakes fist at conservatives trying to make a buck). |
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03/27/2008 05:20:17 PM · #14 |
Originally posted by tnun:
My first "thought" is that I am extremely grateful for it. My second is that it (thanks, Tommy Douglas) is what makes this a great country. On the flip side it means a lot of bureaucracy and paperwork for the medical profession, and of course it isn't perfect or thorough. Some things are not covered: teeth, eyecare and prescriptions - though the last two get some assistance. A very long time ago, when my grandfather was in practice it was the custom - or his custom at any rate - to charge what the patient could afford. - Have we come a long way? Or not? |
When I was a teen, Ontario had "extra billing". That is, your GP could charge you extra if he thought he was a particularly good GP, and the extra was not covered by OHIP. Usually it worked out to an extra thirteen bucks per visit. The Ontario government put a stop to it and made it illegal to charge patients extra beyond what was covered by OHIP. Many doctors were disgruntled, and there was tell of specialists leaving Canada to work in the US. That was a couple of decades ago, and seems to be the most serious issue aside from funding that I can recall. But my experience with the system isn't extensive and I know wait times are supposed to be bad. However, I waited about two weeks to have a kidney ultrasound last year for a condition that was not serious, and that didn't seem too bad to me. |
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03/27/2008 05:20:28 PM · #15 |
Within the last two years within my family
Difficult birth, being rushed from one hospital by ambulance to the children’s hospital, all covered, and handled with extreme professionalism.
Colon cancer start to finish, now in remission.
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03/27/2008 05:23:06 PM · #16 |
Oh, I've also had to be rushed to hospital by ambulance for anaphylactic shock four times. How could I forget that wonderful experience. AND, was hit by a car at age 24 and couldn't walk for two weeks and had frequent hospital visits.
Message edited by author 2008-03-27 17:24:01. |
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03/28/2008 09:07:57 AM · #17 |
Not to denigrate the "social" medicine system, but here's a respectful, serious question, and I'd like somebody to give it serious thought and respectful answer:
If medical personnel can't make "whatever the market will bear", what is the motivation toward excellence and innovation? I understand a certain sense of "need to help people", but that only goes so far. Doesn't a limit on reward tend toward mediocrity? What keeps an extremely talented and capable person interested in the medical field, if he can just go get rich being a lawyer or business man or photographer (wink wink)?
You may guess, I am a capitalist...but not a capitalist "pig". I believe in the profit motive. Works here...only too well.
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03/28/2008 09:50:57 AM · #18 |
I also have a question. Most of the incidences I see mentioned here seem to be "emergency" situations where we would go to the emergency room or urgent care.
What about "maintenance" or "preventative" health care? I ask because one of my Canadian friends mentioned that she has waited over a year (and is still waiting) to get an appointment with a doctor for an exam. Apparently, if you are not an "established" patient it is difficult? How easy is it to schedule children's "well-baby/child" check-ups, OB/GYN visits, etc.? What about specialists for a non-emergency situation?
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03/28/2008 09:52:45 AM · #19 |
Unfortunately, providing medical care for a profit leaves a large number of people out of the system who can't afford it. I've heard too much about people being refused care simply because they can't afford to pay or can't afford the exorbitant premiums for a health care plan.
The answer I think is somewhere in the middle but the ultimate goal should be to provide good care, not generate the maximum profit.
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03/28/2008 09:55:30 AM · #20 |
Originally posted by karmat:
I also have a question. Most of the incidences I see mentioned here seem to be "emergency" situations where we would go to the emergency room or urgent care.
What about "maintenance" or "preventative" health care? I ask because one of my Canadian friends mentioned that she has waited over a year (and is still waiting) to get an appointment with a doctor for an exam. Apparently, if you are not an "established" patient it is difficult? How easy is it to schedule children's "well-baby/child" check-ups, OB/GYN visits, etc.? What about specialists for a non-emergency situation? |
Specialists are scheduled via a referral from your family doctor. There is a current issue in Canada with a shortage of family physicians and doctors in general, especially in the more remote areas of the country. Part of the problem is that the medical schools are not producing enough doctors (quota for students too low) and immigrants who are foreign trained doctors need to re-train in Canada before they can practice. |
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03/28/2008 09:58:43 AM · #21 |
Originally posted by cpanaioti:
Originally posted by karmat:
I also have a question. Most of the incidences I see mentioned here seem to be "emergency" situations where we would go to the emergency room or urgent care.
What about "maintenance" or "preventative" health care? I ask because one of my Canadian friends mentioned that she has waited over a year (and is still waiting) to get an appointment with a doctor for an exam. Apparently, if you are not an "established" patient it is difficult? How easy is it to schedule children's "well-baby/child" check-ups, OB/GYN visits, etc.? What about specialists for a non-emergency situation? |
Specialists are scheduled via a referral from your family doctor. There is a current issue in Canada with a shortage of family physicians and doctors in general, especially in the more remote areas of the country. Part of the problem is that the medical schools are not producing enough doctors (quota for students too low) and immigrants who are foreign trained doctors need to re-train in Canada before they can practice. |
Is the shortage related to the system (they can make more $$ elsewhere) or just one of those cyclical things that ebbs and flows?
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03/28/2008 10:04:19 AM · #22 |
Originally posted by karmat:
Originally posted by cpanaioti:
Originally posted by karmat:
I also have a question. Most of the incidences I see mentioned here seem to be "emergency" situations where we would go to the emergency room or urgent care.
What about "maintenance" or "preventative" health care? I ask because one of my Canadian friends mentioned that she has waited over a year (and is still waiting) to get an appointment with a doctor for an exam. Apparently, if you are not an "established" patient it is difficult? How easy is it to schedule children's "well-baby/child" check-ups, OB/GYN visits, etc.? What about specialists for a non-emergency situation? |
Specialists are scheduled via a referral from your family doctor. There is a current issue in Canada with a shortage of family physicians and doctors in general, especially in the more remote areas of the country. Part of the problem is that the medical schools are not producing enough doctors (quota for students too low) and immigrants who are foreign trained doctors need to re-train in Canada before they can practice. |
Is the shortage related to the system (they can make more $$ elsewhere) or just one of those cyclical things that ebbs and flows? |
this is the problem with a government system... the govenrment set's what they get paid (per patient), so they go where they can set what they get paid... the ones who do stay are usually the ones who are more interested in seeing as many patients in a day as they can (this is particularly bad in Alberta where I am), as the more patients they see the more they make... the same for nurses, they go where they get paid more... and that's never in a government sponsored system...
on the other hand I still rather our system becuase I know that when I really need it it's there. |
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03/28/2008 10:04:29 AM · #23 |
Originally posted by karmat:
Originally posted by cpanaioti:
Originally posted by karmat:
I also have a question. Most of the incidences I see mentioned here seem to be "emergency" situations where we would go to the emergency room or urgent care.
What about "maintenance" or "preventative" health care? I ask because one of my Canadian friends mentioned that she has waited over a year (and is still waiting) to get an appointment with a doctor for an exam. Apparently, if you are not an "established" patient it is difficult? How easy is it to schedule children's "well-baby/child" check-ups, OB/GYN visits, etc.? What about specialists for a non-emergency situation? |
Specialists are scheduled via a referral from your family doctor. There is a current issue in Canada with a shortage of family physicians and doctors in general, especially in the more remote areas of the country. Part of the problem is that the medical schools are not producing enough doctors (quota for students too low) and immigrants who are foreign trained doctors need to re-train in Canada before they can practice. |
Is the shortage related to the system (they can make more $$ elsewhere) or just one of those cyclical things that ebbs and flows? |
Money may be the issue for some but if that's the case I don't think we need them. In my mind they'll be thinking more of the bottom line than of providing good medical care to their patients.
I don't think it's that cyclical. When I lived in Ontario, there was a doctor shortage. Now, in Alberta, there's a doctor shortage. The population is growing at a faster rate than the increase in trained doctors. |
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03/28/2008 10:06:32 AM · #24 |
I can only speak for my familyâ€Â¦
If you have a family doctor, maintenance appointments are not usually a problem. Being referred to specialists can be depending on the priority and which specialist. My daughter is pregnant with her second child. No problem getting required checkups for her or her family. If you ask my wife seeing the doctor is not the systems problem, but me making the appointment. She goes on a regular basis to our family doctor and a specialist for arthritis. No problem.
BUT, there are areas that do not have enough family doctors. Then you rely on clinics or the emerg. Department. Usually first come first serve unless it’s an emergency.
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03/28/2008 10:13:18 AM · #25 |
Originally posted by karmat:
What about "maintenance" or "preventative" health care? I ask because one of my Canadian friends mentioned that she has waited over a year (and is still waiting) to get an appointment with a doctor for an exam. Apparently, if you are not an "established" patient it is difficult? How easy is it to schedule children's "well-baby/child" check-ups, OB/GYN visits, etc.? What about specialists for a non-emergency situation? |
I find a wait for over a year excessive. It's probably unusual, but there is a problem with various wait times, including waiting for a regular GP.
I don't have a family doctor. I use walk-in clinics. When I had kidney problems, I did everthing through the clinic, including urinalisys (within 30 minutes of showing up) and ultra-sound two weeks later. Same thing when I had pneumonia. I just thought it was particularly bad flu, went to the walk-in, and was diagnosed with pneumonia, and prescribed anti-biotics. He scheduled me for lung x-rays the next day and had that done at the same clinic.
Regarding monetary motivation versus bad medicine, if you've grown up in a system of socialized medicine, the question doesn't really have meaning, just as, I suspect, it seems odd that doctors shouldn't be motivated by money if you've grown up in a system where there is no socialized medicine. You have to keep in mind that Canada is not a third-world country as far as medicine is concerned. For example, The Hospital for Sick Children in Toronto is a world-renowned facility, and patients from around the world are treated there because of the excellence of its care. Perhaps under socialized medicine, care is better, because of the very reasons cited - that money is not the primary factor in the decision to practice. |
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