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DPChallenge Forums >> General Discussion >> Voting psychology, personal observation
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Showing posts 26 - 50 of 58, (reverse)
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 03/15/2008 05:47:12 PM · #26
Originally posted by neophyte:
Voting must be a painful process for you...


Yes, but when I read your signature, I can see a purpose. :-)
 03/15/2008 05:49:54 PM · #27
Anyone who has received a vote breakdown from zeuszen certainly must realize his guidelines for voting are not trivial. His consistent, thoughtful point system is an excellent guideline for any voter. The voting scale is set by each voter and as long as it is a consistent scale then all the votes should be counted. Perhaps a 10 to some people is reserved for the work of a master and is rarely given out at DPC. Who cares as long as it is consistent? If, indeed, zeuszen's votes are not being counted because they are too low, voting has become a travesty.

Message edited by author 2008-03-15 17:53:13.
 03/15/2008 05:56:01 PM · #28
Why does the average vote given matter? Everyone has slightly different perceptions of value, and some will tend to give higher scores overall, while others score low. As long as each person is consistent it really doesn't make any difference.

Edit. I seem to be redundant.

Also, if you think about it, someone who votes high has dedicated a greater proportion of their scale to differentiating bad images, while someone who votes low has left greater space to reward excellence; which one you consider better is entirely up to you. And anyone whose average cast is 5.5 is clearly a voting bot.

Message edited by author 2008-03-15 18:01:28.
 03/15/2008 06:03:29 PM · #29
Sometimes A low vote is not an indicator of quality. You may have a great shot without universal appeal. I try to use the comments as an indicator. If I get a mediocre score, but the comments left are mostly positive, I take that as a sign that I simply failed to nail the "broad appeal".
 03/15/2008 06:10:37 PM · #30
Same here, which is why I now shoot and submit to please myself, not the dpc vox populi. Whenever I have shot to please others, sure I get a higher score but I feel like I've sold out.
 03/15/2008 06:11:33 PM · #31
Originally posted by zeuszen:
I'd consider the votes awarded my own submissions here as unnecessarily generous. And, no,
I have no intentions of conforming to anyone else's way of seeing and doing.


And it's people like you and your illogical and nonconstructive voting mentality that I consider a troll. Yours is clearly persistent low voting over years which defies any logic.

I have to stop typing before I write something really offensive and start name calling. People like you reduce the value of the site by providing unreasonable criticism in voting. It's not learning and it's not right.

N
 03/15/2008 06:32:12 PM · #32
Originally posted by pointandshoot:
His consistent, thoughtful point system is an excellent guideline for any voter.


Are you kidding?

His votes should be thrown out and burned. He is a troll.

Message edited by author 2008-03-15 18:32:28.
 03/15/2008 06:40:19 PM · #33
Originally posted by Quasimojo:
Originally posted by zeuszen:
I'd consider the votes awarded my own submissions here as unnecessarily generous. And, no,
I have no intentions of conforming to anyone else's way of seeing and doing.


And it's people like you and your illogical and nonconstructive voting mentality that I consider a troll. Yours is clearly persistent low voting over years which defies any logic.

I have to stop typing before I write something really offensive and start name calling. People like you reduce the value of the site by providing unreasonable criticism in voting. It's not learning and it's not right.

N


You're kidding, right?

If everyone conformed to the same voting strategy then why have everyone vote? We'd only need one person to go through all the images and be done with it. Save a lot of time. Just assign a challenge to each voter and free up the rest of us.

03/15/2008 06:44:51 PM · #34
For me, the votes are by definition of limited value in the "judgement" of any image, and are more an estimation of how well an image connects with the voting viewers here. I don't live and die by the votes I get here (and a good thing, too!), but I enjoy seeing that some people "get" an image--more often indicated by comments than scores anyway. So if Zeus wants to vote on a lower range hoping one day for an image that will be worthy of his 9 or 10, it is okay by me.

I am more interested in the comments I get--though I consider the source: if I get pretentious comments that are mostly about making the commenter appear/feel lofty and erudite, well, "that don't impress me much...."

Scoring and voting for images is hardly objective science, and if we are talking about art, creativity, expression, emotion, and growth, then the more we try to make it "standardized", the less valuable it becomes.

I may be actually be here for the wrong reasons, I suppose. For me, this is a place to see a wide variety of styles, subjects, techniques by a diverse group of photographers. Challenges are a fun incentive to keep producing new work, to see and think about other's work, and to connect with each other (albeit virtually). I doubt I will ever win a ribbon, and I am not that concerned either way.

At least know I know that if I should ever get a comment from Zeus along with a 2 or 3 score, I shall know exactly what it will mean to him. I already know what it will mean to me....
 03/15/2008 06:56:26 PM · #35
Originally posted by zeuszen:
Originally posted by neophyte:
Voting must be a painful process for you...


Yes, but when I read your signature, I can see a purpose. :-)


My sig is more work related. But my point is that it must be quite a chore to go through and vote on tons of images that aren't even mediocre in your eyes. And in thumbing through your comments its not like your offering constructive criticism on low votes. (They were, however, well written and almost literary in nature) I guess I'm saying is that if the images were so poor, in my estimation, that I couldn't give a higher than a 3.51 average vote, I wouldn't be bothered. It would feel too much like it was work. Just my Opinion....
 03/15/2008 09:27:12 PM · #36
Originally posted by ClubJuggle:
Originally posted by zeuszen:
Originally posted by ClubJuggle:
As noted on the voting scale, 1 is bad and 10 is good, but it's a continuum in between. A score of 5.5 is the middle of that scale, so when you score everything a 5 or lower, you're effectively saying that all of the entries are worse than average. That doesn't make much sense to me.

~Terry


"If" only I ever did. -I haven't.


If you're referring to voting only 5-6 or lower across challenges, you have.

Originally posted by zeuszen:
But to respond in kind: If you awarded a "bad" image a 1 and a "good" one a 10, how then would you rate a "great" photograph vs. a "despicable" one?


My apologies. I thought it was clear from the context that I'm not suggesting voting everything a 1 or a 10. My point is that an average photo would be in about the 5-6 range, with "bad" being lower and "good" being higher. I have a difficult time accepting the idea that all or nearly all of the photographs here are average or worse.

~Terry


1. Now I swear I read "when you score everything a 5 or lower, you're effectively saying..." (I pasted your words, so as not to make a mistake) prior to your amendment "if you're referring to voting only 5-6 or lower across challenges...".
2. I note you have a difficult time accepting your idea about my ways. Despite the reversed polarities, I've become quite accustomed to this sort of predicament.
3. My point, however, is this: if my votes are dismissed, when I'm voting in good conscience, why should I continue to vote?

03/15/2008 09:36:41 PM · #37
Originally posted by neophyte:
Originally posted by zeuszen:
Originally posted by neophyte:
Voting must be a painful process for you...


Yes, but when I read your signature, I can see a purpose. :-)


My sig is more work related. But my point is that it must be quite a chore to go through and vote on tons of images that aren't even mediocre in your eyes. And in thumbing through your comments its not like your offering constructive criticism on low votes. (They were, however, well written and almost literary in nature) I guess I'm saying is that if the images were so poor, in my estimation, that I couldn't give a higher than a 3.51 average vote, I wouldn't be bothered. It would feel too much like it was work. Just my Opinion....


I try to comment on the best in the hope to fan an interest in a photograph I recognize or believe to be a source for inspiration. It is, in my view, more useful to pull a cart with a proper horse than to keep pushing it deeper into the bog.

And yes, I do bother a great deal.
 03/15/2008 09:37:11 PM · #38
Originally posted by zeuszen:
...3. My point, however, is this: if my votes are dismissed, when I'm voting in good conscience, why should I continue to vote?


Are they being dismissed?

If so, there needs to be a review/manual override of the 'scrubber' to accommodate those who do vote thoughtfully / with a conscience, especially if they are a DPC 'veteran'.

Otherwise, no, why waste your time and 'thoughts'.
 03/15/2008 09:42:15 PM · #39
Originally posted by macrothing:
Originally posted by zeuszen:
...3. My point, however, is this: if my votes are dismissed, when I'm voting in good conscience, why should I continue to vote?


Are they being dismissed?...


I don't know.
 03/15/2008 09:45:25 PM · #40
Look at a couple of images that you've voted on in recent challenges - if you see your vote highlighted in red, it 'stuck'.

Same should apply if you see your vote on the challenge result page for that challenge - but I'm not sure of this.
 03/15/2008 10:11:27 PM · #41
Originally posted by macrothing:
Look at a couple of images that you've voted on in recent challenges - if you see your vote highlighted in red, it 'stuck'.

Same should apply if you see your vote on the challenge result page for that challenge - but I'm not sure of this.


It appears it 'stuck' in the recent challenges.
 03/15/2008 10:14:42 PM · #42
Then we can all breathe (and vote) freely again.
03/15/2008 10:21:37 PM · #43
Originally posted by macrothing:
Then we can all breathe (and vote) freely again.


Yes, go ahead. I'm still going through some hate-mail...
 03/15/2008 10:25:30 PM · #44
I think some of you need to go and read one of the many "We're just one big happy family" threads, and then get with the program. ;)

03/15/2008 10:43:19 PM · #45
Originally posted by Quasimojo:
Originally posted by zeuszen:
I'd consider the votes awarded my own submissions here as unnecessarily generous. And, no,
I have no intentions of conforming to anyone else's way of seeing and doing.


And it's people like you and your illogical and nonconstructive voting mentality that I consider a troll. Yours is clearly persistent low voting over years which defies any logic.

I have to stop typing before I write something really offensive and start name calling. People like you reduce the value of the site by providing unreasonable criticism in voting. It's not learning and it's not right.

N


Rather sad that you didn't think of this prior to venting your spleen.

Just exactly do you arrive at the conclusion that this person's voting mentality is illogical and nonconstructive? The mere fact that his views and voting patterns differ from yours to not make them less valuable, nor do they as you suggest defy logic... they are merely different.

We are not a collection of lemmings that should follow blindly, regardless of the presence of the precipice... and like it or not, some have the fortitude to march to their own drum.

Zeuszen may be harsh... but one thing for certain he is consistent... and that factor, (from my perspective) validates whatever score he chooses to mete out.

Ray
 03/15/2008 10:58:38 PM · #46
Well, Ray, I'm glad to see that Zeuszen has such a fan and friend in you.

Seeing how he seems to think just about all of us are rather useless and hopeless, he must be pretty unhappy just being around us, so I'm sure he'll be happy to have YOU.

If I thought a site as a whole was that hopeless, I'd be going somewhere else where people have much more to offer....... what's the point sticking around if I have such a low opinion of everyone.
 03/15/2008 11:02:40 PM · #47
Originally posted by Cam:
Originally posted by pointandshoot:
His consistent, thoughtful point system is an excellent guideline for any voter.


Are you kidding?

His votes should be thrown out and burned. He is a troll.


Is this the "Harsh Environment" thread?

There is a big difference between a "troll" and a "voter with a low voting average". A troll always votes low. A voter with a low voting average has a lower average vote but the voting range is representative of any voting range. There is no difference between a voter who uses "5" as an average and gives you an "8", and a voter who uses "3" as an average and gives you a "6". Both scenarios have the same effect on your placement. Additionally, as an added bonus, there is no way you will ever receive a vote from zeuszen that is 4 points below his average vote :)
 03/15/2008 11:05:38 PM · #48
Originally posted by pointandshoot:
There is no difference between a voter who uses "5" as an average and gives you an "8", and a voter who uses "3" as an average and gives you a "6". Both scenarios have the same effect on your placement.

How did you figure that out?
Lets say zeuszen votes on 25% in a challenge..... would you rather be in his 25%, or in the 75% that don't have to endure his particular type of "love"?

I sure know where I'd rather find MY submission.
 03/15/2008 11:06:25 PM · #49
There's a logical error with the argument that an unusually low voter does no harm so long as that person is consistent. The argument only holds true if that person votes on 100% of the photos. Otherwise the people who get voted on by the lowball voter get dragged down relative to those who do not get voted on by that person (and vice-versa for unusually high voters as well).

Some sports have a very useful way of solving this issue of judges who vote unusually low or high. They drop the highest and lowest scores. It would make great sense to me if DPC dropped a number or a percent of each entry's top and bottom scores. It would tighten the score ranges somewhat but it would make the resulting scores more fair by knocking out the low voter that may have voted (hower consistently) on one photo but not photos that rank nearby it, possibly altering the outcome.

On the other hand, there might only be a handful of photos that would really get bumped up or down in ranking due to these issues, so all of this might not matter much anyhow.
 03/15/2008 11:09:55 PM · #50
Originally posted by Beetle:
Originally posted by pointandshoot:
There is no difference between a voter who uses "5" as an average and gives you an "8", and a voter who uses "3" as an average and gives you a "6". Both scenarios have the same effect on your placement.

How did you figure that out?
Lets say zeuszen votes on 25% in a challenge..... would you rather be in his 25%, or in the 75% that don't have to endure his particular type of "love"?

I sure know where I'd rather find MY submission.


I would rather be voted on by those who use "8" as an average.
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