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03/14/2008 11:31:12 AM · #51 |
Originally posted by MikeJ:
Spaz... your ancestors lived in the wild for thousands of years as well... but if you were taken from your nice comfortabe home and dumped out in the woods somewhere in the winter, how well would you cope? Now that would be an interesting experiment and worth doing a video on. ;) Obviously you don't realize that animals, even wild ones, learn to live in the environment that they are raised in. Just as animals get used to being fed by humans at parks and wilderness areas, they will starve if the humans stop feeding them. And yes, they can adapt, if they have a chance.
You guys can continue to have your fun and think nothing of it. I've made my comments and people can either disagree with them or not.
Mike |
I'd do just fine in the woods, thank you very much. Anyway, I'd much rather be put out in the woods in winter than shot in the head in my warm home. Maybe you'd prefer to be put out of your misery before you got the sniffles, I don't know.
My comments still stand. I say your assertion that these squirrels would be better off shot in the head than released into a park is inane. |
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03/14/2008 11:32:09 AM · #52 |
Originally posted by Telehubbie:
I'm picturing Carl Slippy meandering around his brother's house in a floppy camo hat and a silly look on his face, saying "I smell varmint poon-tang." |
Your assumptions are much closer to the truth than Mike J's. :-D
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03/14/2008 11:52:44 AM · #53 |
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03/14/2008 12:24:47 PM · #54 |
Originally posted by MikeJ:
I've made my comments and people can either disagree with them or not.
Mike |
I tried to just read this thread or ignore it and not get involved. But, as a Wildlife Biologist (specializing in wildlife damage prevention and control), I have to agree with Mike. The translocation of squirrels is a questionable practice because of the stress placed on transported and resident squirrels and concerns regarding the transmission of diseases (especially because you released the squirrels in an area they normally could not get to...the other side of a deep chasm). The practice of trapping and relocating problem wildlife is illegal in most of the U.S. for these reasons (check local listings), although I am unsure about this in Canada.
In my several years of studying natural resources and biology, I can tell you that it would be better for all squirrels (ones in the house and in the park) had you not translocated them. First the house squirrels: The process of being captured, handled and relocated is VERY stressful, which makes the individual squirrels more likely to contract and spread diseases. As Mike suggested, you are releasing them in an unfamiliar area during an inopportune time of year to find food. Sure people might try to feed them (but the last time they saw a person, that person caught them and relocated them here). Now for the park squirrel population: You have now introduced several squirrels to their population that could otherwise never be there (deep chasm between them). This chasm has created separate populations with separate gene pools and separate genetic qualities (immunity/susceptibility to diseases). Did you do blood tests on the captured squirrels to insure they would not transmit diseases (squirrel fibroma, cutaneous warbles, congenital alopecia, dermatophytoses, notoedric mange, louse bite lesions) to the park population? You could have also introduced genetic defects into the park population, as well as introduced the house squirrel to genetic defects/diseases that are in the park (think Native Americans, Europeans, and smallpox on a smaller, squirrel-sized scale).
The best way to deal with damage causing squirrels is to a combination of excluding them from entering the house, removing trees or their branches that allow them access to the house, using smell repellents (such as moth balls), lethal trapping, and lethal shooting.
I hope I didn't rain on your parade, but I felt I needed to back Mike up a little. These are just some things to think about next time people are dealing with damage causing wildlife. If you have any questions or would like specific direction on methods used to control this type of damage, feel free to drop me an email or PM.
-drew |
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03/14/2008 01:15:31 PM · #55 |
Originally posted by drewbixcube:
Originally posted by MikeJ:
I've made my comments and people can either disagree with them or not.
Mike |
I tried to just read this thread or ignore it and not get involved. But, as a Wildlife Biologist (specializing in wildlife damage prevention and control), I have to agree with Mike. The translocation of squirrels is a questionable practice because of the stress placed on transported and resident squirrels and concerns regarding the transmission of diseases (especially because you released the squirrels in an area they normally could not get to...the other side of a deep chasm). The practice of trapping and relocating problem wildlife is illegal in most of the U.S. for these reasons (check local listings), although I am unsure about this in Canada.
In my several years of studying natural resources and biology, I can tell you that it would be better for all squirrels (ones in the house and in the park) had you not translocated them. First the house squirrels: The process of being captured, handled and relocated is VERY stressful, which makes the individual squirrels more likely to contract and spread diseases. As Mike suggested, you are releasing them in an unfamiliar area during an inopportune time of year to find food. Sure people might try to feed them (but the last time they saw a person, that person caught them and relocated them here). Now for the park squirrel population: You have now introduced several squirrels to their population that could otherwise never be there (deep chasm between them). This chasm has created separate populations with separate gene pools and separate genetic qualities (immunity/susceptibility to diseases). Did you do blood tests on the captured squirrels to insure they would not transmit diseases (squirrel fibroma, cutaneous warbles, congenital alopecia, dermatophytoses, notoedric mange, louse bite lesions) to the park population? You could have also introduced genetic defects into the park population, as well as introduced the house squirrel to genetic defects/diseases that are in the park (think Native Americans, Europeans, and smallpox on a smaller, squirrel-sized scale).
The best way to deal with damage causing squirrels is to a combination of excluding them from entering the house, removing trees or their branches that allow them access to the house, using smell repellents (such as moth balls), lethal trapping, and lethal shooting.
I hope I didn't rain on your parade, but I felt I needed to back Mike up a little. These are just some things to think about next time people are dealing with damage causing wildlife. If you have any questions or would like specific direction on methods used to control this type of damage, feel free to drop me an email or PM.
-drew |
Squirrel-Huggers :-P
Look what I just took a picture of just minutes ago. This owl (it's huge!) has just started hanging around here today. It's very skittish, and I missed a shot this morning, but got one just now, though from a pretty good distance and almost cropped to 100%. We haven't seen any squirrels around since its arrival. I think it's planning on having a few squirrel dinners. Maybe I should shoot the owl to protect the squirrels? Maybe I should capture the owl and bring it over to the release area so it can eat some squirrels that are going to change the squirrel evolution pattern as we know it?
Oh great squirrel-huggers, what am I to do? I can feel life as we know it coming unhinged!
Cheers,
Slippy-the-anarchist
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03/14/2008 01:21:19 PM · #56 |
| slippy..you're walking a line with that last sarcastic post (its close to baiting). |
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03/14/2008 01:25:29 PM · #57 |
Originally posted by frisca:
slippy..you're walking a line with that last sarcastic post (its close to baiting). |
I thought it was funny, though my sense of humour might be a little more twisted than most. I'm visualizing a future of humans being hunted by mutant Chernobyl (SP?) squirrels. I don't think any of this is very serious.... [edit to add, especially given the lack of knowledge of this area by the self-proclaimed experts.]
Message edited by author 2008-03-14 13:27:03.
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03/14/2008 01:26:28 PM · #58 |
Originally posted by Strikeslip:
Originally posted by frisca:
slippy..you're walking a line with that last sarcastic post (its close to baiting). |
I thought it was funny, though my sense of humour might be a little more twisted than most. I'm visualizing a future of humans being hunted by mutant Chernobyl (SP?) squirrels. I don't think any of this is very serious. |
No, I don't either, but I just don't want a fight to break out in this otherwise lighthearted thread. |
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03/14/2008 01:29:10 PM · #59 |
Excuse me, but now I have to set up a blind somewhere to try to get a shot of that owl flying off with a squirrel. THAT would be an end to this thread that would make me laugh, and laugh, and laugh!
:-D
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03/14/2008 01:30:06 PM · #60 |
Originally posted by Strikeslip:
Excuse me, but now I have to set up a blind somewhere to try to get a shot of that owl flying off with a squirrel. THAT would be an end to this thread that would make me laugh, and laugh, and laugh!
:-D |
I would like to 'pre-favorite' that shot. :) |
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03/14/2008 01:33:27 PM · #61 |
That's great info Drew and I'm glad you also helped Mike a bit since it seemed like some people were enjoying jumping all over him. I'm a little sensitive to this, I think, because I've been involved in animal rescue. I've seen some pretty bad cases of abandonment, neglect, and abuse. And yes, I'm talking more about domestic pet situations, but once you've done some animal rescue, your heart opens up to any kind of animal in distress. I looked at the video clip, I read here how people quickly jump in with suggestions about shooting the animals, and this whole thing makes me sad. I'm sure these animals needed to be relocated before they did a lot of damage to the home, but to make a video about this creature being taken from its home, thrown into a cage (alone) and dumped into some foreign territory, well, that's just sad. I guess just count me as a squirrel-hugger too.
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03/14/2008 01:37:52 PM · #62 |
Originally posted by Strikeslip:
Originally posted by drewbixcube:
Originally posted by MikeJ:
I've made my comments and people can either disagree with them or not.
Mike |
I tried to just read this thread or ignore it and not get involved. But, as a Wildlife Biologist (specializing in wildlife damage prevention and control), I have to agree with Mike. The translocation of squirrels is a questionable practice because of the stress placed on transported and resident squirrels and concerns regarding the transmission of diseases (especially because you released the squirrels in an area they normally could not get to...the other side of a deep chasm). The practice of trapping and relocating problem wildlife is illegal in most of the U.S. for these reasons (check local listings), although I am unsure about this in Canada.
In my several years of studying natural resources and biology, I can tell you that it would be better for all squirrels (ones in the house and in the park) had you not translocated them. First the house squirrels: The process of being captured, handled and relocated is VERY stressful, which makes the individual squirrels more likely to contract and spread diseases. As Mike suggested, you are releasing them in an unfamiliar area during an inopportune time of year to find food. Sure people might try to feed them (but the last time they saw a person, that person caught them and relocated them here). Now for the park squirrel population: You have now introduced several squirrels to their population that could otherwise never be there (deep chasm between them). This chasm has created separate populations with separate gene pools and separate genetic qualities (immunity/susceptibility to diseases). Did you do blood tests on the captured squirrels to insure they would not transmit diseases (squirrel fibroma, cutaneous warbles, congenital alopecia, dermatophytoses, notoedric mange, louse bite lesions) to the park population? You could have also introduced genetic defects into the park population, as well as introduced the house squirrel to genetic defects/diseases that are in the park (think Native Americans, Europeans, and smallpox on a smaller, squirrel-sized scale).
The best way to deal with damage causing squirrels is to a combination of excluding them from entering the house, removing trees or their branches that allow them access to the house, using smell repellents (such as moth balls), lethal trapping, and lethal shooting.
I hope I didn't rain on your parade, but I felt I needed to back Mike up a little. These are just some things to think about next time people are dealing with damage causing wildlife. If you have any questions or would like specific direction on methods used to control this type of damage, feel free to drop me an email or PM.
-drew |
Squirrel-Huggers :-P
Look what I just took a picture of just minutes ago. This owl (it's huge!) has just started hanging around here today. It's very skittish, and I missed a shot this morning, but got one just now, though from a pretty good distance and almost cropped to 100%. We haven't seen any squirrels around since its arrival. I think it's planning on having a few squirrel dinners. Maybe I should shoot the owl to protect the squirrels? Maybe I should capture the owl and bring it over to the release area so it can eat some squirrels that are going to change the squirrel evolution pattern as we know it?
Oh great squirrel-huggers, what am I to do? I can feel life as we know it coming unhinged!
Cheers,
Slippy-the-anarchist |
HA!
That reminds of the time some friends of ours "rescued" a squirrel that had been shot in the leg with a pellet gun. They took it to a vet, fed it while it recovered, the whole nine yards.
Eventually, it came time to release the squirrel. They open the cage and Squeaky (by now, he had a name) takes off across the yard towards the woods. He was almost there when, out of the sky, a hawk swooped down and took Squeaky away to have for dinner while the kids looked on in terror. |
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03/14/2008 02:21:11 PM · #63 |
Originally posted by Strikeslip:
I thought it was funny, though my sense of humour might be a little more twisted than most. |
First off, I am not a squirrel hugger. It was my recommendation that you kill the ones you trapped. I hear the brains are the tastiest part.
Secondly, I can appreciate a sense of humor. I was just explaining the downside to "catch and release". It seems you didn't kill the squirrels because you didn't want to harm them. Foolishly, you translocated them. And in the end you may have caused more harm than good.
Thirdly, I don't think owls or hawks should be killed for eating a squirrel...and I am not sure how you drew that conclusion. As far as "changing the squirrel evolution pattern as we know it", you would be surprised how quickly separated populations can grow apart enough so that reproduction between the populations does not work.
Originally posted by Strikeslip:
I don't think any of this is very serious...[edit to add, especially given the lack of knowledge of this area by the self-proclaimed experts.] |
I would hope that my degree and employment by the country's foremost authority on wildlife damage would proclaim my expertise. And I hope your edit was meant to be seen in italics, denoting heavy sarcasm.
-drew |
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03/14/2008 02:21:41 PM · #64 |
Ladies and gentlemen, some animals are a nuisance, rodents especially. They can do major damage. Yes they are often cute, but THEY CAN BE DANGEROUS. Here in my neighborhood there is a warning to be on the watch for a rabid raccoon. Just saw one hit by a car earlier today.
All you squirrel huggers answer me this, do you want possums in your attic running/crashing/screaching at all hours of the night? What would you do?
I'm all for a balance between man and animals, but the world just doesn't work like that right now. |
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03/14/2008 02:26:18 PM · #65 |
We 'humans' have made some pretty dumb decisions when it comes to wildlife management.
There's a nuisance animal in our midst so lets just get rid of the population. Now we have an over population of something else. Oh, let's just run a cull. Oh, now we have a great over population of something else. And so on, and so on, and so on.
Can the experts not look at the big picture for once and create an over all wildlife plan? I haven't seen much evidence of it but may someone can enlighten me.
ETA: this is a general statement in case anyone took it as pointing at them
Message edited by author 2008-03-14 14:27:23. |
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03/14/2008 02:55:46 PM · #66 |
Originally posted by drewbixcube:
.....snip.... As far as "changing the squirrel evolution pattern as we know it", you would be surprised how quickly separated populations can grow apart enough so that reproduction between the populations does not work.....snip...... |
OMG! This just flew back here from the release area!!! It has begun! :-O
Message edited by author 2008-03-14 15:03:33.
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03/14/2008 02:59:14 PM · #67 |
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03/14/2008 03:11:13 PM · #68 |
Originally posted by Strikeslip:
OMG! This just flew back here from the release area!!! It has begun! :-O
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See! Don't say I didn't warn you! :-p |
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03/14/2008 04:13:39 PM · #69 |
Originally posted by Strikeslip:
Originally posted by drewbixcube:
.....snip.... As far as "changing the squirrel evolution pattern as we know it", you would be surprised how quickly separated populations can grow apart enough so that reproduction between the populations does not work.....snip...... |
OMG! This just flew back here from the release area!!! It has begun! :-O
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Ok this was way too funny. LoL |
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03/14/2008 04:36:11 PM · #70 |
Originally posted by JaimeVinas:
Originally posted by Strikeslip:
Originally posted by drewbixcube:
.....snip.... As far as "changing the squirrel evolution pattern as we know it", you would be surprised how quickly separated populations can grow apart enough so that reproduction between the populations does not work.....snip...... |
OMG! This just flew back here from the release area!!! It has begun! :-O
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Ok this was way too funny. LoL |
That's not funny. Where's the outcry over squirrels having genetic manipulation technology? What's next? Dogs and cats being spliced together? What will the dog part of the body try chasing? Will the cat half be lazy? Will it try to chase itself, not that dogs don't already chase their tails, but... |
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03/14/2008 04:44:48 PM · #71 |
Ok this was way too funny. LoL [/quote]
That's not funny. Where's the outcry over squirrels having genetic manipulation technology? What's next? Dogs and cats being spliced together? What will the dog part of the body try chasing? Will the cat half be lazy? Will it try to chase itself, not that dogs don't already chase their tails, but... [/quote]
Actually give me a minute and I'll find the puppykat web site for you!!!!!
ETA: Not spliced but "breeding". Haven't looked on snoops to see if it's for real yet or not.
Puppykats
Message edited by author 2008-03-14 16:47:58. |
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03/14/2008 04:49:16 PM · #72 |
Originally posted by _eug:
What's next? Dogs and cats being spliced together? What will the dog part of the body try chasing? Will the cat half be lazy? Will it try to chase itself, not that dogs don't already chase their tails, but...
Originally posted by Homer Simpson:
Good ... we'll have a miracle hybrid with the loyalty of a cat and the cleanliness of a dog! |
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And soon in a galaxy far far away we will have Mawgs. Half man, half dog. :P
.jpg) |
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03/14/2008 05:28:13 PM · #73 |
Originally posted by _eug:
Originally posted by JaimeVinas:
Originally posted by Strikeslip:
Originally posted by drewbixcube:
.....snip.... As far as "changing the squirrel evolution pattern as we know it", you would be surprised how quickly separated populations can grow apart enough so that reproduction between the populations does not work.....snip...... |
OMG! This just flew back here from the release area!!! It has begun! :-O
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Ok this was way too funny. LoL |
That's not funny. Where's the outcry over squirrels having genetic manipulation technology? What's next? Dogs and cats being spliced together? What will the dog part of the body try chasing? Will the cat half be lazy? Will it try to chase itself, not that dogs don't already chase their tails, but... |
Have you never seen CatDog? or image here? |
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03/14/2008 05:30:12 PM · #74 |
Originally posted by Strikeslip:
Originally posted by drewbixcube:
.....snip.... As far as "changing the squirrel evolution pattern as we know it", you would be surprised how quickly separated populations can grow apart enough so that reproduction between the populations does not work.....snip...... |
OMG! This just flew back here from the release area!!! It has begun! :-O
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New species discovered in Ontario: Squird |
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03/14/2008 05:30:13 PM · #75 |
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