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03/05/2008 03:00:17 PM · #1 |
First off, let me say this: This is merely food for thought if anyone's hungry for political tangents ...
OK here goes. There are people that blame Ralph Nader for the fact that GWB has been in office for 8 years. In retrospect I would say I wish he didn't run. There is also a common belief that Nader has a giant ego and it gets in the way of the ebb and flow of politics. Point taken.
Anyway, I think Ralph Nader has some valid intellectual ideas and philosophically important points. He is stepping back from the "system" that we are part of / victim to and creating a discussion about how "free" our political structure really is. Along the way, he's bringing up topics that no one else is. Where some people just give up and give in, he keeps coming back asking questions. I can't fault a guy for asking legitimate questions and acting on them in a way that shakes up the system. He also has a record as an activist on the part of consumers, which we certainly need in a country that has some rampant and worshiped capitalism.
I'm not saying "vote for Nader" by any means. If anything, I'd want to take votes from McCain and say "Vote for Ron Paul" if he runs as Libertarian. I think Nader falls somewhere on the opposite side of the spectrum as Ron Paul, but has a similar "purpose" in the grand scheme of things. If anything, maybe voting future generations will look back and realize how important the people outside of the 2-party system can be for making "change". In a country where people get rich and famous for questionable reasons, I would hate to think that Ralph Nader is someone that could be blamed for the downfall of anything in our society. On the contrary, his purpose is what we make of it.
To me, the very reason to hate Nader now is the same reason to like him. I choose to look at him as an important part of history. |
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03/05/2008 03:07:12 PM · #2 |
FWIW, my (admittedly cynical) view is that Nader, like the vast majority of politicians, is rather self-serving. He wants us to believe that he's a selfless consumer activist, when in fact he'll latch on to any issue that improves his visibility. He reacts to issues in a non-technical, knee-jerk way that does nothing to really solve root causes of problems, but is geared to generate that groundswell of public outrage and support that makes him look like the hero for taking on the cause.
I've seen his antics since the 1960's, and I'm not buying in. I also don't think that his candidacy (or lack thereof) made one iota of difference in the last election, not will it in this one. |
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03/05/2008 03:09:41 PM · #3 |
Originally posted by kirbic:
FWIW, my (admittedly cynical) view is that Nader, like the vast majority of politicians, is rather self-serving. He wants us to believe that he's a selfless consumer activist, when in fact he'll latch on to any issue that improves his visibility. He reacts to issues in a non-technical, knee-jerk way that does nothing to really solve root causes of problems, but is geared to generate that groundswell of public outrage and support that makes him look like the hero for taking on the cause.
I've seen his antics since the 1960's, and I'm not buying in. I also don't think that his candidacy (or lack thereof) made one iota of difference in the last election, not will it in this one. |
Yeah, what  kirbic just said. |
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03/05/2008 03:19:21 PM · #4 |
I can respect anyone who puts themselves out there and wants to change a badly broken system. I don't think he will make much of a difference this time because people know that he will not win. It just won't happen. Now what you have to think about is the who the people would vote for rather than him and is the race going to be close enough to matter. I personally think it's going to be a landslide this year, so he won't matter. But in the case of 2000 Nader did take a lot of Gore votes, but in contrast, he took a lot of Bush Sr's votes back in 1992.
VOTE!!!! |
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03/05/2008 03:21:41 PM · #5 |
In all seriousness, I'm completely open to disliking Nader's antics. My "love" is almost purely philosophical. I expected anti-Nader responses so please elaborate if you will.
Originally posted by kirbic:
He reacts to issues in a non-technical, knee-jerk way that does nothing to really solve root causes of problems, but is geared to generate that groundswell of public outrage and support that makes him look like the hero for taking on the cause. |
Message edited by author 2008-03-05 15:24:32. |
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03/05/2008 03:26:05 PM · #6 |
Originally posted by metatate:
In all seriousness, I'm completely open to disliking Nader's antics. My "love" is almost purely philosophical. I expected anti-Nader responses so please elaborate if you will. |
I am not anti Nader though, I just don't think he is going to effect the outcome, he's pissed off too many Republicans by stealing Bush 41 votes, and then pissed off Democrats by stealing Gore votes. I agree with a maximum of 60% with any politician anyway so I always have to deal with the best logical pick...
There all Republicrats and Democrins anyway..... |
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03/05/2008 03:35:23 PM · #7 |
As a Canadian I can't vote in the US. If I could, and if he only had a snowball's chance in hell to get anywhere, I'd vote for Gravel. Since he doesn't, I'd opt for Obama.
I can appreciate Nader for much the same reasons metatate gives in his original post. He's informed, sharp and effective and very apt at shaking things up a little -very useful in the familiar stagnant quagmire of political and economic habits. I would vote for him, if he ran for a sort of watchdog position. As a president, I'm afraid, he'd have to oppose himself, and we'd end up with a posturing contortionist without either support and or benefit.
Message edited by author 2008-03-05 15:35:42. |
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03/05/2008 03:48:27 PM · #8 |
If he gets the chance, perhaps Gravel would make a decent running mate.
Originally posted by zeuszen:
As a Canadian I can't vote in the US. If I could, and if he only had a snowball's chance in hell to get anywhere, I'd vote for Gravel. Since he doesn't, I'd opt for Obama.
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03/05/2008 03:49:41 PM · #9 |
His last attempt at the position netted Nader %3 of the popular vote.
I have to say that I truly think that this election period is bigger than Nader, no matter what his philosophical, and pro-consumerism position is.
If Naders message is heard at all, and anyone is listening, I would be seriously surprised if he gets more than %1 of the popular vote.
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03/05/2008 03:58:18 PM · #10 |
There is a quote from someone I forget... Anyone able to get elected to office should be bared from office (meaning they greased whatever is necessary to win :-).
The only one that makes any fiscal sense to me was Ron Paul... although his position is whacko on a number of things IMO (not to mention the pain of moving to a consumption based tax instead of income based).... That whole radical concept of spending less then you earn is never going to fly in politics......
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