tech or creative challenges? - DPChallenge Forums

Olympus OM-D E-M5 Mark III

03/04/2008 10:23:05 PM · #1

In this thread,

De Sousa's comment got me thinking.

He said, "I see DPC as a wonderful learning place and I think things should be kept around this objective: - Learning. Currently at DPC the learning process is... 1. Take a sharp image, 2. use the rules of thirds and 3. keep it clean without distracting elements. Well, this is the basics for any newbie... But there are more things to learn about and higher steps to jump on. What should we expect from the voters if they are just learning the basics? Every thing out of this context will be killed cause it doesn't match what the voters aim for (a sharp and clean image aka "eye candy" photograph).
So, IMO, challenges with Judges will not get us (all DPC members and users) to the next step. Instead, a culture to a next level on the learning process should be supported officially by DPC. It could be as simple as creating every week one Challenge where people would be encouraged to create images breaking the basics, using richer compositions and asking the voters to vote on aesthetic more than in the sharpness of the image. It's just a matter of culture and attitude that is missing to this place, for to keep DPC the best learning website in the net and for the near future as well. Actualy DPC as around 100.000 users, I would love to see DPC with 1.000.000 users with much more diversity and a place for all. There's much more than "eye candy" photographs, and we should care about that."

That, and the whole drift of the thread, made me wonder if having challenges that stress a focus on either technical or creative/artistic might help?

The challenges could be different themes or the same, but descriptions should stress that viewers are to weigh their vote with consideration to technical details, or to creativity and artistic expression, whichever is fitting for the challenge.

I totally realise that the two are not, and should not be, mutually exclusive, but one of the main complaints here seems to be that voters ignore artistry in favour of technicals. This might help lead folks back to seriously considering the creative.

For many of us less experienced and/or trained, concentrating on getting the techniques right take so much focus that we can't manage tremendous creativity as well, and when that's what we're so busy learning that's what we too often tend to center on during voting as well, unfortunately. I think a reminder that there IS more to a good photo would be timely and worthwhile, no? :)

example; "Technical challenge- "Low key". Description; Low key describes a mostly dark image, with few highlights. Use this technique to produce a textbook example."

"Creative challenge- "Low key". Description; Low key describes a mostly dark image, with few highlights. Use this technique to trigger our emotions."

I wouldn't want to see all the challenges run this way, but a few thrown in here and there might be a good idea. What do you think?

Message edited by author 2008-03-04 22:23:47.

Yo_Spiff

Olympus 12-100mm f/4.0 M.Zuiko ED IS PRO

03/04/2008 10:36:09 PM · #2

I think it's a great idea, but people would probably continue to vote the way they have been. It's hard to not prefer the eye candy. I also think there are a lot of people that participate in voting that do not ever read the forums, so might not understand the point.

Canon EF 70-300mm f/4.5-5.6 DO IS USM

03/05/2008 12:12:20 AM · #3

Well, it could be added to the voting rules & guidelines what the aim of the different challenges is, and what to take into consideration when voting them.

cpanaioti

Canon EOS-40D

03/05/2008 03:04:01 AM · #4

Originally posted by BeeCee:

Well, it could be added to the voting rules & guidelines what the aim of the different challenges is, and what to take into consideration when voting them.

as if that's going to help

Voter's don't take into account the current guidelines so why would this be any different?

;o)

Nikon AF-S DX Zoom-Nikkor 18-70mm f/3.5-4.5G IF-ED

03/05/2008 04:58:04 AM · #5

I guess I should go back to not thinking, eh?

danielv

Canon EOS-350D Rebel XT

Canon EF 85mm f/1.8 USM

03/05/2008 05:52:11 AM · #6

You could try a "blur" challenge if you want people to move away from sharp images.
However, I would think you example is too subtle.

One thing could be to have more challenges targeted towards the emotion created by the image ("fear", "joy", etc.) instead of color / subject. You do already have some like that (Hate comes to mind for example).

But at the end of the day, people are less voting based on the description than on their personal taste (as long as your entry fits more or less with the challenge). That is intrinsic to the DPC rating system, and not obvious how you could avoid that.

johst582

Nikon D80

03/05/2008 06:50:55 AM · #7

I was thinking a while back that it would be interesting to spice up the voting system with separate voting on technique & artistry or creativeness / whatever. That way, people will have to re-think their voting strategies. And, there could be more winners: 1st, 2nd, 3:d in combined, technical as well as on the artistic level.

Considering the strange reception of my recent entry into B&W in color, I'd also like to see a ribbon for "highest standard deviation". :)

More winners is always good, right? :)

cpanaioti

Canon EOS-40D

Canon EF 70-300mm f/4.5-5.6 DO IS USM

03/05/2008 08:13:37 AM · #8

Originally posted by johst582:

And turn the DPC voters into figure skating judges. ;oP

scalvert

Canon EOS-5D Mark III

Canon EF 24-105mm f/4.0L IS

03/05/2008 08:53:32 AM · #9

Originally posted by BeeCee:

...one of the main complaints here seems to be that voters ignore artistry in favour of technicals. This might help lead folks back to seriously considering the creative.

My own portfolio should demonstrate the fallacy of this argument. Lots of creative entries in there that were technically lacking but successful anyway.

Originally posted by cpanaioti:

Voter's don't take into account the current guidelines so why would this be any different?

That, too. It's an interesting idea that might be worth a shot, but I don't think it would do much to correct perceptions of "flawed" voting.

Nikon AF Nikkor 85mm f/1.4D IF

03/05/2008 05:30:28 PM · #10

Okay, it was just suggested as a possible alternative to Leo's idea of juried (which I don't care for). Thanks for the responses, guys.

De Sousa

Canon EOS-5D Mark II

Canon EF 50mm f/1.4 USM

03/05/2008 07:41:58 PM · #11

Technical and aesthetics are not exclusive matters. Works with great aesthetic value are supported by great technicals on:
- Composition (Golden Rules, Diagonal sections, Golden Spiral or no rules at all)
- Execution (technical skills, style, etc...)
- Subject
(you can change the order as you wish)

What I'm trying to say it's not: - "Lets create blurry challenges to run away from the sharp images"... No it's not that (at all) what I'm trying to say.
But: - Lets step to the next level!

DPC should officially support and encourage more than the basics. Lets encourage the people aka the photographers to be ambitious and aim for more than the "simple, sharp and eye candy images". An easy way (among many others) could be asking in the challenge descriptions for compositions based on the Diagonal Golden Sections. It would be interesting to see people discovering that exists more ways to create a composition than the basic rule of thirds. That would be learning how to reach a richer composition. That would be All of us growing together and being more exigent with the average quality.

PS: Attitude it's what makes our children grow stronger and with values. If you don't show attitude with them, soon, they will be eating (only and all the time) candy drops, and for sure you wouldn't love the picture. What I'm trying to say is: - "I wish DPC would be a place where people could love other things than candy drops".

pawdrix

Nikon D700

03/05/2008 09:17:03 PM · #12

;) !

Message edited by author 2008-03-05 21:57:45.