right in front of my eyes - DPChallenge Forums

Sigma 70-200 /2.8 APO EX DG Macro HSM II

03/03/2008 01:55:56 PM · #1

So I posted awhile ago about doing a shoot for a classmate whos's an up and coming r&b singer. I had him sign a model release form (I did it for free, so I wanted to keep ownership). I was worried about him doing some re-editing and ruining my image. well he took it a step further then that.

At the end of our marketing class our final project was to present a product to 'investors' (the rest of the class) and market the product in a way to get the investors to invest. cool. Well his group decided that he was going to be the product. In their presentation they put up one of my photos, as well as one that one of my friends took, and added text and whatever (which pissed me off cuz it looked horrid...). They also decided to crop just above our copywrite signature. Both images had the same thing 'Â© Christopher Wintz' (or in my friends case, his name). but that was no where to be found in their cropped image.

Him and I had a conversation about what he was going to do with the images, I told him that he could not remove the signature and if he were to add anything to the image that it would require my approval first. Well he crossed both those lines.

Thoughts? Advice?

-CW

Eyesup

Nikon D300

03/03/2008 02:00:24 PM · #2

Take him out to the bike racks after school....

seriously... a) I would inform your proff of the infraction. I'm sure that will affect his grade cause infracting on copyright is seriouse even in school. b) talk to him and let him know your displeasure... if he's a good person he'll apologize and make ammends somehow.

and be sure that your realease spelled out exactly what he could and couldn't do with your photo's... make sure there are no loopholes that he could use to justify using your photo's in that maner...

Sigma 70-200 /2.8 APO EX DG Macro HSM II

03/03/2008 02:05:42 PM · #3

I did talk to my prof, it was used for educational purposes in a presentation, so theres no harm there (you have to site a source if its in a text or essay, but if its a photo on a powerpoint you dont...)

I think he thinks he can get away with it if he stiff arms me, I don't think he realizes I noticed yet...

-cw

Eyesup

Nikon D300

03/03/2008 02:06:57 PM · #4

then take him to the bike racks...lol

dwterry

Canon EOS-1D Mark III

Canon EF 24-70mm f/2.8L USM

03/03/2008 02:37:29 PM · #5

So what are your concerns about your copyright? Some answers you might think of: a) that the image is presented in such a way as to represent the quality of your work, and b) that nobody sells/profits from the image without your permission.

Now, I'm thinking: 1) he botched the editing, that's bad, 2) he removed your copyright so nobody thinks his botched editing is your handiwork, that's good, 3) he's doing this for educational purposes (not profit), that's not so bad.

If he's your "friend" rather than your customer ... I'd be inclined to keep the friendship. Let him know that future edits of images would not be allowed and that the copyright should remain on the image. But don't kick him around for this one. Treat him nicely and you just may end up being "his chosen photographer" when/if he makes it into the big leagues.

Message edited by author 2008-03-03 14:38:03.

Nikon AF-S DX Zoom-Nikkor 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 ED

03/03/2008 02:57:07 PM · #6

i agree with what youre sayin dwterry, but he did say in his presentation that he was going to actaully release this as his album cover...

Apple iPhone 5

03/03/2008 03:03:55 PM · #7

Since you were in a business-related class then you should have stood up at the end of their presentation and informed the 'investors' of the copyright violation, putting this forward as another reason why they should invest in your product and not theirs.

All's fair in business.

littlegett

Canon EOS-20D

Canon EF 17-40mm f/4.0L USM

03/03/2008 03:29:31 PM · #8

Originally posted by chris48083:

BS, thats a complete lie, The only images you do not have to give source for is FREE Stock or Clipart. Everything needs a cite. Whoever told you images do not need a cite doesn't know what they are talking about, and I have met many a 'professor' who didn't know what they were talking about.

Bottom line is, your friend STOLE from you. He didn't respect you enough as a friend to give you credit for your work. There needs to be a line, and all of these ducks with water off their backs are making it worse.

However, ultimately its up to you. Assuming since it was the final the class is no longer meeting. If it is, the only amends he can do is to inform the 'investment body' of the error. Or, charge him triple the rate for outright copyright purchase.

kirbic

Canon EOS R5

Canon RF 24-70mm f/2.8 L IS

03/03/2008 03:36:26 PM · #9

You have control over the commercial use of the image. His use of the image in the class with the copyright notice cropped off pretty much tells you all you need to know about his ethics. Simply don't sell him the right to use the image on a CD cover. While you may lose the income, you send the message that you won't tolerate misuse of your copyrighted material. If he goes ahead and uses the image, then you know what you have to do...

Bear_Music

Samsung Galaxy S24 Ultra

Sony 24-70mm F4 Vario-Tessar T* FE OSS

03/03/2008 03:41:18 PM · #10

I realize he didn't pay you for this, and I realize your feelings are ruffled because he didn't include your credit on the image, but... meanwhile, out in the Real World:

As a working photographer you basically have NO control over how your images are altered/mangled/typeset over. Being upset because they made an ugly presentation is just silly. We shoot our pictures, deliver 'em to the client, and move on.

I just can't see getting all torqued about this, as far as the class presentation goes. You might mention to him, in passing, "It would have been nice of you to credit my work since you didn't actually pay for it." But that's as far as I'd go on the presentation aspect of it. He DOES need to know, however, that he doesn't own the copyright to these images and that you guys will have to come to a mutually beneficial arrangement if he actually wants to use your image/s to promote himself in the real world.

R.

ETA: Terry and I cross-posted

Message edited by author 2008-03-03 15:41:48.

MikeJ

Canon EOS-1D Mark II

Canon EF 24-70mm f/2.8L USM

03/03/2008 08:02:27 PM · #11

What you should do is get your images registered pronto (if you are in the US). Then if he does use your images in a commercial way without your permission and you decide you need to do something about it, you have a lot more power behind you to do it... and it won't cost you the same as it would if you didn't have them registered. There are several threads on here that spell out all the advantages to registering your images and there are several very strong ones. If you decide to continue to do photography in the business world, you are going to run into a number of people that you consider as a friend that are going to take advantage of you. It might not be intential, then again, it might be. This sounds like a person that feels like he can take advantage of his friends just because they are his friends. If he ever makes it big, he will probably be worse... but then he'll have people that will do it for him rather than having to do it himself. It also sounds like your instructor isn't really versed in business either or he would understand where you were coming from, even if it was used for educational purposes. As it was mentioned, he should have taken the oppurtunity to use this situation as part of his education. He gets a F for not doing that.

You know what he did was wrong. Just because a lot of others are telling you it wasn't wrong or not to worry about it, does not make it right or ok. Unfortunately, doing this is getting more common all the time.

Mike