Gary fong Vs. Umbrella - DPChallenge Forums

Nikon AF Zoom-Nikkor 24-85mm f2.8-4.0D

03/01/2008 02:10:16 PM · #1

I have 2 slave flashes and i'm going to use them for studio and outdoor portrait, but mostly outdoor portrait. I'm going to get 2 gary fong diffusers and umbrella kit for studio. Which should I get first?

Message edited by author 2008-03-01 15:01:56.

Nikolai1024

Nikon D300

03/01/2008 02:13:13 PM · #2

I would get umbrellas only.

Nikon AF-S Zoom-Nikkor 28-70mm f/2.8D IF-ED

03/01/2008 03:08:05 PM · #3

So do i start with the white backing umbrella or the black backing. I'm looking for an allrounder to start with for even balanced light. No special effects yet.

Nald

Nikon D700

03/01/2008 03:19:34 PM · #4

If you are mostly working outdoors then I'll second getting just umbrellas, the Fong system is just about worthless outdoors IMHO.

Nikon AF-S Zoom-Nikkor 28-70mm f/2.8D IF-ED

03/01/2008 03:24:14 PM · #5

2 votes for umbrellas but which of those umbrellas i pointed out to start with?

Nald

Nikon D700

03/01/2008 03:35:05 PM · #6

Well I guess it all depends on personal preference...

Silver (from what I understand) produces a more harsh light while the white would be a softer light... so if you want even and balanced I'd go with the white.

Nikolai1024

Nikon D300

Nikon AF Zoom-Nikkor 24-85mm f2.8-4.0D

03/01/2008 03:37:13 PM · #7

White with black backing

Trumpeteer4

Nikon D7000

Nikon AF-S DX Zoom-Nikkor 18-70mm f/3.5-4.5G IF-ED

03/01/2008 04:02:22 PM · #8

I have one silver and one white, I use the silver as my main light and the white one for a fill light.

iamkmaniam

Nikon D200

Nikon AF Nikkor 85mm f/1.8D

03/01/2008 04:06:12 PM · #9

Message edited by author 2008-03-02 19:33:40.

03/01/2008 05:07:55 PM · #10

I'll go with one silver one white black backing. Is bigger better? how about 40?

Nikon AF Nikkor 50mm f/1.8D

03/02/2008 02:17:01 PM · #11

bump

_eug

Nikon D50

03/02/2008 02:25:15 PM · #12

Originally posted by dmadden:

I'll go with one silver one white black backing. Is bigger better? how about 40?

Yes, bigger is better in this case. I believe that 40" is large enough for full coverage of a sitting portrait. You need bigger for full coverage standing due to light falloff at the edges.

Silver lining will be more efficient. Use silver if you are using speedlights which are low power.
White shoot through 50%, reflects off the inside, 50% passes through the umbrella. This means whatever you are shooting you loose 50% of your light.
White with black back. Middle ground.

Canon EF 24-70mm f/2.8L USM

03/02/2008 02:55:24 PM · #13

Originally posted by _eug:

Originally posted by dmadden:
I'll go with one silver one white black backing. Is bigger better? how about 40?

Yes, bigger is better in this case. I believe that 40" is large enough for full coverage of a sitting portrait. You need bigger for full coverage standing due to light falloff at the edges.

Silver lining will be more efficient. Use silver if you are using speedlights which are low power.
White shoot through 50%, reflects off the inside, 50% passes through the umbrella. This means whatever you are shooting you loose 50% of your light.
White with black back. Middle ground.

Thanks much, I'll try for one of each and also start at 40 up.

MikeJ

Canon EOS-1D Mark II

03/02/2008 04:36:55 PM · #14

I assume you are going to be using this for fill light. You didn't say what size flashes you had either. So I'm assuming a few things here. One, bigger is not always better, depending on the size of your flash. To be effective, you have to fill the umbrella with light or else you are not going to get even diffused light. A flash (and I'm think Vivitar 283 or even something in line with the Canon 580 here) will have a hard time filling a 40" or bigger umbrella. You have to consider the spread of light from the flash tube by the time it hits the back of the umbrella and then bounces out. If the flash doesn't fill the umbrella so you get a good bounce of light back out, it's going to be a very weak light. Add in the fact that you lose light from an umbrella to begin with and you might not have enough light to do a proper fill of shadows.

You have the same thing in shoot through umbrellas. If your flash doesn't light up the whole umbrella, you have a small, hot spot rather than a larger diffused light. And again, you are going to lose light from bounce back and absorbsion. For fill flash, you might look at 25" white umbrellas. White will give you fill light that is closes to natural light... unless you are shooting in the evening or early morning, in which case you might want to consider gold for a warmer tone. Silver gives harsher, colder light.

You might want to consider reflectors rather than umbrellas. That way you can use existing light and bounce light back into the shaodws. You can mount them on a light stand or have someone hold them. With reflectors, bigger is better when you are using existing light... unless you are trying to light a very small area.

Just something more to consider, since you know how you are going to be using them. I kind of like the diffused globes for flash. Or a bounce card placed on the flash itself.

Mike

robs

Canon EOS R6 Mk II

Canon EF 24-105mm f/4.0L IS

03/02/2008 04:58:09 PM · #15

I use speedlite's with brollys, and find the shoot thru ones with the removable black backing lined with silver open more options. I have no issue filling a 43" with a single strobe. The downside is you get light everywhere cause they are not good at focusing... or I find that anyway.

Nikon AF Nikkor 50mm f/1.8D

03/02/2008 07:01:22 PM · #16

I'm using 2 pentax 360 flashes. I guess their almost the equivalent of the canon 480. If I'm going to risk losing light with fullsize umbrellas, I guess i'll have to step it down a bit. So 25 u say, I'll also look for the one's with the optional removable back.

_eug

Nikon D50

03/02/2008 07:56:03 PM · #17

Originally posted by dmadden:

Here's a test you can do.

- First, decide on the size umbrella you are looking at.
- The flash at it's furthest positions will be 1/2 the umbrella size, i.e a 40" umbrella the flash will be 20" from the flash.
- Set the flash at it's widest setting. Mine is 24mm, 18mm if I use the expansion lens.
- Put the flash 1/2 the umbrella size from a blank wall and shoot with a tape measure extended from the center point of where you are shooting.
- How big is the radius of the flash output on the wall? Double it and this is aprox. the size umbrella you can fill.

MikeJ

Canon EOS-1D Mark II

Canon EF 24-70mm f/2.8L USM

03/02/2008 09:22:57 PM · #18

Here is something else you might consider... the Flip It. I've not personally used it but we had a fairly long discussion about it compared to the Gary Fong vrs a couple of other products on another site. The maker of the Flip It joined in and answered a bunch of questions. He has some examples on his web site showing it being used outside for fill light. I don't know if you have looked at this product already or not. But nothing like another option to consider. :D

//www.dembflashproducts.com/flipit/

_eug, that's a good discription on how to test a flash with an umbrella. I usually just take a picture of the umbrella when the flash flashes so I can see how it looks. I also use my flash meter and take readings from the center and out to see where the light drop off is or where any hot spots are. That's one advantage of having a flash meter that can read in 1/10th of a fstop.

Mike

cpanaioti

Canon EF 70-300mm f/4.5-5.6 DO IS USM

03/02/2008 09:53:18 PM · #19

Originally posted by MikeJ:

Most people when they think Gary Fong, think Lightsphere. There is another product though, the Whale Tail. It is much more versatile than the Lightsphere as it has flaps that can be adjusted to adjust the amount of bounce flash and it has different coloured flaps and gels that can be used with it. Just something else to check out.

Message edited by author 2008-03-02 21:57:51.

_eug

Nikon D50

Nikon AF Nikkor 50mm f/1.8D

03/03/2008 10:20:32 AM · #20

Originally posted by MikeJ:

_eug, that's a good discription on how to test a flash with an umbrella. I usually just take a picture of the umbrella when the flash flashes so I can see how it looks. I also use my flash meter and take readings from the center and out to see where the light drop off is or where any hot spots are. That's one advantage of having a flash meter that can read in 1/10th of a fstop.

lol Thanks. Came up with it on the spot. Since he doesn't have an umbrella yet to test by taking a picture of the umbrella filled by the flash, I had to come up with something he could do. Got out my 43", a tape, and started measuring. TA DA!