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02/22/2008 11:37:35 AM · #26 |
| Um, silly question, but why are we hanging things from the ceiling? |
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02/22/2008 11:39:12 AM · #27 |
have a look at  Scalvert's portfolio Originally posted by _eug:
Um, silly question, but why are we hanging things from the ceiling? |
Message edited by author 2008-02-22 11:39:29. |
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02/22/2008 11:39:19 AM · #28 |
So anyway back to the original question...how much playing around with the saturation will be DQable? In the yellow cat eye example could you desat the yellow eyes 50% so they are still yellow, but less saturated? What about white balance? How about desaturation of all colors but one so that you still have color to pass validation?
What about shooting RAW with b/w parameter set and processing in color? (I actually have been shooting that way for the b/w a week side challenge). I'm guessing that would be illegal, but I'm not sure what advantage would be gained since the RAW file is full color?
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02/22/2008 11:41:27 AM · #29 |
I think as long as you leave some color in there you should be ok or with in the rules.
Not sure about your second question but unless you get a positive answer from SC, I would stick to shooting full color. |
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02/22/2008 11:45:04 AM · #30 |
Personally, I wouldn't desaturate even 1%. I wouldn't touch anything to edit colour at all for this challenge, as to me, that's what the challenge is, leaving the colour alone and producing a B&W image.
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02/22/2008 11:58:10 AM · #31 |
| My personal opinion: The idea of this challenge is to shoot something in color that looks (or is) black and white. The special rule is in place to keep people from simply converting a scene to B&W or shooting in grayscale mode to get around the "challenge" of this particular topic. Thus, I would expect corrective measures like white balance, color shifting, and even saturation adjustments to be fine... as long as you aren't DEsaturating or pushing the image towards grayscale to meet the challenge. |
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02/22/2008 12:40:13 PM · #32 |
Originally posted by scalvert:
My personal opinion: The idea of this challenge is to shoot something in color that looks (or is) black and white. The special rule is in place to keep people from simply converting a scene to B&W or shooting in grayscale mode to get around the "challenge" of this particular topic. Thus, I would expect corrective measures like white balance, color shifting, and even saturation adjustments to be fine... as long as you aren't DEsaturating or pushing the image towards grayscale to meet the challenge. |
Right -- I understand the purpose of the rule. The ambiguity comes in when we start talking about things like "pushing the image towards grayscale," because even simple adjustments like changing the white balance in RAW conversions or adjusting the levels sliders can have the effect of (or be interpreted as having the effect of) doing that. I think this issue is less of a problem for studio shooters, but could be an issue for environmental shots, like a street scene on an overcast day (where a blue-gray cast may move towards gray just by adjusting levels, for example)
Message edited by author 2008-02-22 12:41:21. |
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02/22/2008 12:59:56 PM · #33 |
Originally posted by EstimatedEyes:
[It] could be an issue for environmental shots, like a street scene on an overcast day (where a blue-gray cast may move towards gray just by adjusting levels, for example) |
Well I'd probably be fine with that as a corrective white balance adjustment rather than an overt attempt to force a grayscale look. It's sort of a common sense thing- if your edit looks like an attempt to change color to B&W (like a sunny blue sky to gray), then don't do it. We'd get yelled at if we allowed people to flaunt this technical challenge, and I'm sure some people will find a way to throw a fit over this, too. *sigh* I'd much rather be out taking pictures. :-/
Message edited by author 2008-02-22 13:00:44. |
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02/22/2008 01:17:22 PM · #34 |
I think this can be pretty simple to understand. To add to what shannon has already said (above, or below, depending on your preferences) is on the money. I will simply add:
don't take a picture of colourful things and then try to change them to black and white. Take pictures of black and white things and then fiddle with curves and white balance to get them looking the way you want.
Don't use desaturate. easy, no? |
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02/22/2008 01:36:51 PM · #35 |
Originally posted by frisca:
Take pictures of black and white things and then fiddle with curves and white balance to get them looking the way you want. Don't use desaturate. easy, no? |
perfect. thanks. that's what i thought, but you never know with the results-based interpretation of the rule sets. Thanks for clarifying things.
Originally posted by scalvert:
*sigh* I'd much rather be out taking pictures. :-/ |
Me too. ;>P |
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02/22/2008 01:45:59 PM · #36 |
Originally posted by frisca:
I think this can be pretty simple to understand. To add to what shannon has already said (above, or below, depending on your preferences) is on the money. I will simply add:
don't take a picture of colourful things and then try to change them to black and white. Take pictures of black and white things and then fiddle with curves and white balance to get them looking the way you want.
Don't use desaturate. easy, no? |
Or you could paint something colourful over with black & white paint. :-O
Message edited by author 2008-02-22 13:48:12.
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02/24/2008 11:03:57 AM · #37 |
What about setting your in-camera saturation level to its lowest point? You're not eliminating the (color)saturation, just lowering the camera's ability to process it. As far as I can tell, this would be allowed under the ruleset since it is not specified:
"Conversion/desaturation to black and white or shooting in black and white is NOT allowed."
Yep, lowering the saturation level in-camera appears to be ok as long as it is not possible to bring it down to truly b&w. |
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02/24/2008 11:50:49 AM · #38 |
With all due respect.
Why is it as soon as a interesting challenge comes along, with “black and white” rules on what you can and cannot do. Someone tries to figure ways to circumvent them.
I tell my 5 year old not to touch my computer, and I go to take a shower. 15 minutes later I come back to find 5 year old having a grand time playing a computer game. “ I thought I told you to not touch my computer” “ I didn’t I only touched the mouse”
Walks off mumblingâ€Â¦ |
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02/24/2008 02:04:31 PM · #39 |
Originally posted by Redneck:
With all due respect.
Why is it as soon as a interesting challenge comes along, with “black and white” rules on what you can and cannot do. Someone tries to figure ways to circumvent them. |
Curiousity and a desire to understand and change the environment are the characteristics which most differentiate the human mind from that of most other species ... |
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02/24/2008 02:15:39 PM · #40 |
hahah red, I told my Charlie the same thing, came back a few moments later to find him touching it.
Why are you touching the computer? I ask
"I'm not, he says,"I am licking it" |
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02/24/2008 05:06:49 PM · #41 |
Originally posted by JulietNN:
"I'm not, he says,"I am licking it" |
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02/26/2008 08:46:35 AM · #42 |
A few of my photos of true grayscale subjects have a slight bluish tint or cast to them. This is corrected when I adjust white balance. Is that legal?
Also, why is this Advanced Editing? AE has fewer restrictions, which seems like more opportunities to (inadvertently or cunningly) desaturate along the way somewhere -- burning colorful parts of the image to make them darker and less colorful, cloning out small but colorful things, etc. If the main objective of this challenge is to show off naturally desaturated subjects, it seems like a more restrictive ruleset would be in order. (That said, I'm happy to do clone out some minor distractions in my entry.)
Message edited by author 2008-02-26 08:46:56. |
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02/26/2008 09:48:54 AM · #43 |
Originally posted by frisca:
I think this can be pretty simple to understand. To add to what shannon has already said (above, or below, depending on your preferences) is on the money. I will simply add:
don't take a picture of colourful things and then try to change them to black and white. Take pictures of black and white things and then fiddle with curves and white balance to get them looking the way you want.
Don't use desaturate. easy, no? |
That's pretty much the polite, carefully worded response I got when I asked if I could adjust the white balance in a ticket to SC.
"Interpretation and pushing the envelope is at your peril!" was the unspoken advice!
It's the "fiddle with curves and white balance to get them looking the way you want" that can be dangerous! LOL!!!.....8>)
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02/26/2008 09:51:33 AM · #44 |
Originally posted by Redneck:
With all due respect.
Why is it as soon as a interesting challenge comes along, with “black and white” rules on what you can and cannot do. Someone tries to figure ways to circumvent them. |
'Cause artistic types are inherently contrary, bullheaded, and obnoxious.
Originally posted by Redneck:
I tell my 5 year old not to touch my computer, and I go to take a shower. 15 minutes later I come back to find 5 year old having a grand time playing a computer game. “ I thought I told you to not touch my computer” “ I didn’t I only touched the mouse”
Walks off mumblingâ€Â¦ |
ROFLMAO!!!! Gotcha!
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02/26/2008 10:01:05 AM · #45 |
Originally posted by scalvert:
I'm sure some people will find a way to throw a fit over this, too. *sigh* I'd much rather be out taking pictures. :-/ |
Have fun! |
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02/26/2008 03:05:48 PM · #46 |
One more question........
What if you are only desaturating to remove a flaw in the image?? For example glare from a surface. |
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02/26/2008 03:09:49 PM · #47 |
Originally posted by kleski:
One more question........
What if you are only desaturating to remove a flaw in the image?? For example glare from a surface. |
Wouldn't you use the clone or healing brush to fix that?
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02/26/2008 03:14:28 PM · #48 |
Originally posted by cpanaioti:
Originally posted by kleski:
One more question........
What if you are only desaturating to remove a flaw in the image?? For example glare from a surface. |
Wouldn't you use the clone or healing brush to fix that? |
If I knew how....... I am really new to editing and I am somewhat comfortable with what I am using right now. Not too confident in my cloning technique yet. |
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02/26/2008 03:15:08 PM · #49 |
Originally posted by bvy:
A few of my photos of true grayscale subjects have a slight bluish tint or cast to them. This is corrected when I adjust white balance. Is that legal? |
I believe so.
Originally posted by scalvert:
Originally posted by EstimatedEyes:
[It] could be an issue for environmental shots, like a street scene on an overcast day (where a blue-gray cast may move towards gray just by adjusting levels, for example) |
Well I'd probably be fine with that as a corrective white balance adjustment rather than an overt attempt to force a grayscale look. It's sort of a common sense thing- if your edit looks like an attempt to change color to B&W (like a sunny blue sky to gray), then don't do it. |
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02/26/2008 03:17:33 PM · #50 |
Just don't desaturate.
Example, get a black box and a white box and TaDAaaaaaaaaaaaa and colour black and white photo!
edited cos my stupid fingers type different letters than the ones on the keyboard
Message edited by author 2008-02-26 15:18:37. |
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