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02/21/2008 08:32:29 AM · #1 |
just leave. simple as that. go somewhere else.
the system is what it is and it's been working fairly well for quite some time. if you don't like something, there are many ways to maturely work towards change.
if you don't like the system and would rather be part of the problem than being part of the solution, just simply go somewhere else that provides a better fit for your personality and needs.
i may be wrong, but i imagine that there are more people that have quietly slipped away from this site due to churlish online behaviors than there are that have left because of the sc doing the best they can to facilitate site operations. no different than when the obnoxious drunk finally gets tossed from the bar and his loud, obnoxious crew follows him. so be it.
so please. if what you see when you look at the big picture isn't what appeals to you and you don't see any way to facilitate change and progress without being overly disruptive, just take it somewhere else.
note: i'm not an apologist for the sc nor is this an sc-sponsored message. it's just my opinion. |
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02/21/2008 08:40:09 AM · #2 |
Well said  Skip
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02/21/2008 08:41:16 AM · #3 |
What Rex said, but in an girlie English accent
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02/21/2008 08:41:26 AM · #4 |
| FWIW, I think there are a lot of people who just ride out these forum storms, ignore some threads, and wait for the whole thing to blow over so we can get back to enjoying the "coffeehouse" effect (nods to Brad). |
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02/21/2008 08:41:27 AM · #5 |
Originally posted by rex:
Well said Skip |
Seconded. |
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02/21/2008 08:43:18 AM · #6 |
I enjoy being disruptive.
:-P
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02/21/2008 08:44:49 AM · #7 |
Originally posted by Skip:
just leave. simple as that. go somewhere else.
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well said. Will follow it. |
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02/21/2008 08:50:24 AM · #8 |
Originally posted by strangeghost:
FWIW, I think there are a lot of people who just ride out these forum storms, ignore some threads, and wait for the whole thing to blow over so we can get back to enjoying the "coffeehouse" effect (nods to Brad). |
If I put too many more threads on "IGNORE", there will not be any left to actually enjoy:) |
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02/21/2008 08:54:40 AM · #9 |
| Very well put Skip. Nicely done. |
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02/21/2008 08:57:25 AM · #10 |
| Yea Skip!!! I think the Site Council does an amazing job with what they do. I really believe they are under appreciated. Thank you to all. |
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02/21/2008 09:04:21 AM · #11 |
Originally posted by Strikeslip:
I enjoy being disruptive.
:-P |
yes, but it's 'charming' when you do it, so it doesn't count |
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02/21/2008 09:11:38 AM · #12 |
Very well said Skip (and John as well)! I'm sure this is echoed by many here who are not so vocal in the politics and antics of this wonderful site. Keep up the good work, Site Council!
Now I'm off to bandage my tongue from biting it so much lately. |
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02/21/2008 09:11:52 AM · #13 |
I agree with Skip, but only because he did add this thought:
Originally posted by Skip:
and you don't see any way to facilitate change and progress without being overly disruptive, just take it somewhere else. |
Some people immediately jump up and down as soon as anybody points out a problem, makes a request, or suggests change of any sort.
Yes, we need to appreciate what we have and use our manners, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't ever ask for something or strive for change.
There is ALWAYS room for improvement. |
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02/21/2008 09:13:18 AM · #14 |
| Simple and to the point Skip. Well said. Except for that 'churlish' word...had to look that one up. :-D |
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02/21/2008 09:15:25 AM · #15 |
Originally posted by Skip:
just leave. simple as that. go somewhere else.
the system is what it is and it's been working fairly well for quite some time. if you don't like something, there are many ways to maturely work towards change.
if you don't like the system and would rather be part of the problem than being part of the solution, just simply go somewhere else that provides a better fit for your personality and needs.
i may be wrong, but i imagine that there are more people that have quietly slipped away from this site due to churlish online behaviors than there are that have left because of the sc doing the best they can to facilitate site operations. no different than when the obnoxious drunk finally gets tossed from the bar and his loud, obnoxious crew follows him. so be it.
so please. if what you see when you look at the big picture isn't what appeals to you and you don't see any way to facilitate change and progress without being overly disruptive, just take it somewhere else.
note: i'm not an apologist for the sc nor is this an sc-sponsored message. it's just my opinion. |
It's your opinion, others disagree.
I assume that you made your post in light of the discussion over the ability to edit comments.
The "If you don't like it, just leave." attitude is pretty sad. It reminds me of the attitude of some "patriotic" Americans about the protests during the Vietnam War when they told the protesters the same thing about the U.S., "Love it or leave it". There was an ample supply of people who cared deeply about their country on both sides, that was not the exclusive domain of the Hawks.
In the forums, I see a relatively civil discussion, heated as it may be, between people who, despite their obvious and large differences of opinion on the matter, care very much about the DPC site and community. If they didn't care, why would people on either side bother posting? What I don't see is the threads over removing comments degenerating into petty name calling and personal attacks.
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02/21/2008 09:19:19 AM · #16 |
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
What I don't see is the threads over removing comments degenerating into petty name calling and personal attacks. |
Those posts were promptly hidden. Discussion and even heated debate are fine. Personal attacks, abusive PMs, retaliatory comments and the like are not necessary to facilitate change. |
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02/21/2008 09:19:44 AM · #17 |
First off, I agree with what Strikeslip posted......and I hope no one gets mad for what I\'m about to type
(in a calm voice)
(Im Am NOT pointing at any certain person)
I don\'t know if anyone cares what I have to say, I don\'t even know if this is the appropriate thread to post this, but I am a paying member,and the complaints are getting old, I know I\'m not that good of a constructive commenter, and that just adds into the fact that I don\'t know the language of photogrphy all that well. I am happy to get comments, good or bad, because thats the type of stuff I will have to deal with anyway if I ever expect to sell my work. I just look at the comments I consider shabby like, oh well, that is thier comment, and each of us are entitled to our opinions. People threaten to go elsewhere, why threat, just go. I don\'t read as much through the forums anymore for the fact I log in and see complaint threads, I just roll my eyes and log off. Isn\'t this site here to help us all grow in our photography?(For fun as well) Well, you can\'t do that with just good comments. I get kinda upset when I have a picture in the running and its not doing to well, I expect (want) to see the comments that I would consider bad (or rude to some), I need to know where I went wrong, so actually that BAD comment is a GOOD one (and that makes the \"good\" comments so much better, we need BALANCE). I don\'t expect to be stroked, there are so many people on this site, with so many different opinions, and it makes it a great place to be.
I hope I worded this right, I don\'t wanna upset anyone,and I\'m NOT trying to, this is just my feeling on the whole complaint/comment thing. I am voting in the poll to leave everything as is. Now I have to run, I am late for work. |
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02/21/2008 09:30:26 AM · #18 |
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
It's your opinion, others disagree. |
which is perfectly fine
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
I assume that you made your post in light of the discussion over the ability to edit comments. |
that among others
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
The "If you don't like it, just leave." attitude is pretty sad. |
if that was the context of what i said, i'd agree with you. however, that was not the context. the context is that there is a difference between working amicably towards compromise and creating 'us-vs-them' divisions. this thread is pointed at those who repeatedly are blaming the sc for site's shortcomings and those that are constantly belabouring how dpc doesn't have what other sites have and then becoming shrill about not getting their pet needs addressed. to those people, i'm simply saying leave.
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
In the forums, I see a relatively civil discussion, heated as it may be, between people who, despite their obvious and large differences of opinion on the matter, care very much about the DPC site and community. If they didn't care, why would people on either side bother posting? What I don't see is the threads over removing comments degenerating into petty name calling and personal attacks. |
there's quite a difference between being passionately eloquent and childishly beligerent. there's nothing wrong with heated discussions. it's all about being reasonable. when issues and individuals become so unreasonable as to become distractions, then they create their own set of problems, oft times unnecessarily. |
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02/21/2008 09:39:36 AM · #19 |
Originally posted by Skip:
if that was the context of what i said, i'd agree with you. however, that was not the context. the context is that there is a difference between working amicably towards compromise and creating 'us-vs-them' divisions. this thread is pointed at those who repeatedly are blaming the sc for site's shortcomings and those that are constantly belabouring how dpc doesn't have what other sites have and then becoming shrill about not getting their pet needs addressed. to those people, i'm simply saying leave. |
I don't think you should be saying that, though. The reason is one of interpretation. What you view as shrill whining may be have been interpreted by you out of context, by not having read a rather lengthy discussion, not knowing about similar conversations in the past, etc. And what seems like haranguing to you may simply be someone's consistency in their position.
I think it's very discourteous to start suggesting to people who are vocal that they leave because their style of conversation is unappealing to you, if that's the case. I'm not arguing in favour of tolerating overtly disruptive behaviour in the forums, of which I have seen very little (which is why your "just get out" suggestion is so puzzling and dismaying to me). |
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02/21/2008 09:45:01 AM · #20 |
Originally posted by Skip:
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
It's your opinion, others disagree. |
which is perfectly fine |
Of course it is.
Originally posted by Skip:
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
I assume that you made your post in light of the discussion over the ability to edit comments. |
that among others |
I don't know about the others, but I'll take your word for it.
Originally posted by Skip:
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
The "If you don't like it, just leave." attitude is pretty sad. |
if that was the context of what i said, i'd agree with you. however, that was not the context. the context is that there is a difference between working amicably towards compromise and creating 'us-vs-them' divisions. this thread is pointed at those who repeatedly are blaming the sc for site's shortcomings and those that are constantly belabouring how dpc doesn't have what other sites have and then becoming shrill about not getting their pet needs addressed. to those people, i'm simply saying leave. |
Quite simply, the SC are the face of DPC authority. If there is a disagreement about the operation of the site, those "us-vs-them" divisions are going to happen and the SC are going to take the blame or the credit for the operation of the site. As for going on about it, well, that's what some people do. I'm sure that you wouldn't have to look too far in Virginia to find people talking about the "War of Northern Aggression" and that was how long ago?
Originally posted by Skip:
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
In the forums, I see a relatively civil discussion, heated as it may be, between people who, despite their obvious and large differences of opinion on the matter, care very much about the DPC site and community. If they didn't care, why would people on either side bother posting? What I don't see is the threads over removing comments degenerating into petty name calling and personal attacks. |
there's quite a difference between being passionately eloquent and childishly beligerent. there's nothing wrong with heated discussions. it's all about being reasonable. when issues and individuals become so unreasonable as to become distractions, then they create their own set of problems, oft times unnecessarily. |
What's unreasonable and unnecessary to you, may be reasonable and necessary to others. |
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02/21/2008 09:46:17 AM · #21 |
Originally posted by scalvert:
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
What I don't see is the threads over removing comments degenerating into petty name calling and personal attacks. |
Those posts were promptly hidden. |
Good. Thanks to the SC for that. |
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02/21/2008 09:46:19 AM · #22 |
Originally posted by Louis:
Originally posted by Skip:
if that was the context of what i said, i'd agree with you. however, that was not the context. the context is that there is a difference between working amicably towards compromise and creating 'us-vs-them' divisions. this thread is pointed at those who repeatedly are blaming the sc for site's shortcomings and those that are constantly belabouring how dpc doesn't have what other sites have and then becoming shrill about not getting their pet needs addressed. to those people, i'm simply saying leave. |
I don't think you should be saying that, though. The reason is one of interpretation. What you view as shrill whining may be have been interpreted by you out of context, by not having read a rather lengthy discussion, not knowing about similar conversations in the past, etc. And what seems like haranguing to you may simply be someone's consistency in their position.
I think it's very discourteous to start suggesting to people who are vocal that they leave because their style of conversation is unappealing to you, if that's the case. I'm not arguing in favour of tolerating overtly disruptive behaviour in the forums, of which I have seen very little (which is why your "just get out" suggestion is so puzzling and dismaying to me). |
I don't think it's discourteous at all.
The following statement is point-on descriptive of the issue:
Originally posted by skip:
... this thread is pointed at those who repeatedly are blaming the sc for site's shortcomings and those that are constantly belabouring how dpc doesn't have what other sites have and then becoming shrill about not getting their pet needs addressed. |
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02/21/2008 09:51:01 AM · #23 |
Originally posted by glad2badad:
The following statement is point-on descriptive of the issue: |
Well, maybe it is for you, but it's not for me. I've interpreted the issue differently and have an opposite opinion. I'd like to talk about it. Should I be asked to leave?
I understand this is an extreme example because he's not targeting calm debate, and the original post is about engendering harmony in the forums as opposed to discord, which is a fine sentiment. But essentially calling on the membership to drive out people you don't like with a populist post is, also, the wrong way to go about change, in my opinion. |
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02/21/2008 09:54:58 AM · #24 |
Originally posted by glad2badad:
Originally posted by Louis:
Originally posted by Skip:
if that was the context of what i said, i'd agree with you. however, that was not the context. the context is that there is a difference between working amicably towards compromise and creating 'us-vs-them' divisions. this thread is pointed at those who repeatedly are blaming the sc for site's shortcomings and those that are constantly belabouring how dpc doesn't have what other sites have and then becoming shrill about not getting their pet needs addressed. to those people, i'm simply saying leave. |
I don't think you should be saying that, though. The reason is one of interpretation. What you view as shrill whining may be have been interpreted by you out of context, by not having read a rather lengthy discussion, not knowing about similar conversations in the past, etc. And what seems like haranguing to you may simply be someone's consistency in their position.
I think it's very discourteous to start suggesting to people who are vocal that they leave because their style of conversation is unappealing to you, if that's the case. I'm not arguing in favour of tolerating overtly disruptive behaviour in the forums, of which I have seen very little (which is why your "just get out" suggestion is so puzzling and dismaying to me). |
I don't think it's discourteous at all.
The following statement is point-on descriptive of the issue:
Originally posted by skip:
... this thread is pointed at those who repeatedly are blaming the sc for site's shortcomings and those that are constantly belabouring how dpc doesn't have what other sites have and then becoming shrill about not getting their pet needs addressed. |
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The simple fact is that like any conversation, there needs to be at least one speaker and one listener. In the case of the forums, maybe it's one poster and one reader. The roles alternate or cycle so that each person has an opportunity to be heard. When someone feels the conversation should be over, they are free to disengage and go about their business. Obviously, you and Skip are at that point. Others are not. What you perceive as shrill belaboring of the issue is simply part of an ongoing conversation to those still engaged.
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02/21/2008 09:55:02 AM · #25 |
Originally posted by strangeghost:
FWIW, I think there are a lot of people who just ride out these forum storms, ignore some threads, and wait for the whole thing to blow over so we can get back to enjoying the "coffeehouse" effect (nods to Brad). |
I am one of them. I think DPC is fun. Anyone has the right to think otherwise and noone is obliged to stay. I am sorry that some good photographers are leaving, but I don't give a f*** about the everlasting discussions about their departure and reasons behind it. |
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