And Yet Another Stolen Photo - DPChallenge Forums

Canon EF 28-135mm f/3.5-5.6 IS USM

01/31/2008 09:52:15 PM · #1

I don't get too upset when my shots pop up on other web sites, generally. I probably should be more angry about these sorts of things, but I guess there's enough else for me to get ticked off about :)

So I was catching up on a couple of my daily newspapers this afternoon... I turned the page of Wednesday's paper and VOILA!... there's one of my shots very prominently featured in an advertisement for a bank! Very weird, since I don't recall being asked permission.

I'm still not upset about it per se, but I did send them a note through their web site, asking how they came about securing permission for the shot. I'll be curious to hear their reply...

Ironically, I've had plenty of inquiries about the shot in the past, and even though it's a very low resolution shot (I think I actually took it with an original Sony Mavica around 2000!), it has been used in many publications before, including Highlights for Children (with permission).

It's obviously not good practice for people to use things without permission, especially in advertisements...

Message edited by author 2008-01-31 22:41:37.

ClubJuggle

Canon EOS-400D Rebel XTi

01/31/2008 09:58:46 PM · #2

Alan,

Do you have your shots on any stock sites?

Edit: I guess not, if the resolution is that low.

~Terry

Message edited by author 2008-01-31 21:59:43.

01/31/2008 10:04:16 PM · #3

I have a bunch of stuff on stock sites, but not this one (partially for the reasons you mentioned -- it's way too low-res to make the cut!). The publications that have used it in the past used small enough versions of it that it printed decently enough. The bank folks apparently snagged it from a prominent web site I maintain.

Originally posted by ClubJuggle:

Alan,

Do you have your shots on any stock sites?

Edit: I guess not, if the resolution is that low.

~Terry

Message edited by author 2008-01-31 22:05:24.

citymars

Nikon D700

01/31/2008 10:08:04 PM · #4

Alan, that's a lot different than just having one of your photos in some web surfter's Flickr portfolio of cool stuff found on the internet! That, in fact, is probably grounds for a legitimate suit. Not that you should be greedy or ridiculous about it, but if you are at all inclined, you should try for some reimbursement. Good luck,

Konica Minolta MF 85mm f/1.7

01/31/2008 10:15:11 PM · #5

Yup, I'm well aware :) I tend to preach against getting greedy over such things, like you said. But I am rather curious to hear their response...

My note to them wasn't at all threatening or anything... more of a curious inquiry than anything.

Originally posted by citymars:

briantammy

Olympus PEN E-P3

01/31/2008 10:15:19 PM · #6

I just looked at your profile page and noticed that you've listed places where some of your images have been published. I'm interested in where and how were these contacts made? Are you aggressively searching for the opportunities or are you being "found"?

brian

Konica Minolta MF 85mm f/1.7

01/31/2008 10:24:37 PM · #7

One word, basically: Luck :)

I honestly don't seek it at all, and each of those instances have a different story:

The People magazine shot is something I took rather randomly at an event in Cincinnati. I had used it on a web site, and the local newspaper asked if they could use it. After it appeared in the paper, somehow or other People found it and did a rather amazing job of tracking me down. I was out hiking with my daughter, and got home to find that the magazine had contacted the newspaper, my brother (who works at the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette), several other people, and had eventually left multiple messages on my answering machine.

A few of the other shots were also thanks to my friendship with the same couple from Survivor and The Amazing Race fame (I took the first-ever shot of them together -- before they were even a couple, actually -- and that's why People wanted it so badly). CBS had used a few of my shots of Amber Brkich when she was on the Craig Kilborn Show, for example.

Many of my other high-profile shots are due to my association with the Groundhog Day festivities in Punxsutawney (like the one in the ad I'm mentioning in this thread...). This time of the year, I get 5-10 requests per day for using Groundhog Day-related shots, and they literally come from all over the world.

My all-time biggest shot was the one I took of PNC Park a few years ago, and an ad agency found it on my web site (it ranked very highly when Googling "PNC Park" images). And I'm proud to say that it was a shot I originally took for DPC! It was used in a Chevy ad, and appeared a bunch of incredible places, like USA Today, Sports Illustrated, and in TV ads.

So... mainly it has been luck. I wouldn't even know where to begin to try to get things published like that, honestly.

Originally posted by briantammy:

Message edited by author 2008-01-31 22:29:42.

briantammy

Olympus PEN E-P3

01/31/2008 10:29:05 PM · #8

thanks for sharing that. I often wonder about such things.

Pug-H

Pentax K10D

Sigma 28-80mm f/3.5-5.6 Aspherical HF for Pentax

01/31/2008 10:34:40 PM · #9

I wonder what VIOLA has to do with it.

Maybe you mean the French, "Voila!" (with an accent on the a, which I can't figure out how to do on this Japanese keyboard.) ;-)

But, yes, strange that such an advertisement uses a picture without permission.

Canon EF 17-40mm f/4.0L USM

01/31/2008 10:42:26 PM · #10

Ha! Guess it's obvious I took Spanish instead of French in high school. Thanks for the correction -- there were no violins involved ;)

Originally posted by Pug-H:

Quasimojo

Canon EOS-30D

01/31/2008 10:48:45 PM · #11

Originally posted by alanfreed:

VOILA!... there's one of my shots very prominently featured in an advertisement for a bank! Very weird, since I don't recall being asked permission.

You really should do something about that. In the very least you are entitled to credit but from a bank? You should be getting cash. It's the agency at fault but that's not your problem - it's theirs. I'd have a lawyer take up the case for you and cash in on the piggy bank...

N

Canon 12x IS USM (S3 IS built-in Lens) -- 36-432mm (35mm EQ)

01/31/2008 11:14:32 PM · #12

I appreciate the sentiment, and you are right... but one of my biggest problems with society nowadays is that people are waaaaay too eager to jump on the lawsuit bandwagon in hopes of cashing in on this or that. It would be a bit hypocritical of me to do the same for something that really isn't that big a deal in the grand scheme of things, at least not to me.

Originally posted by Quasimojo:

GeneralE

Canon PowerShot S3 IS

01/31/2008 11:48:12 PM · #13

It's not a matter of "cashing in" -- it's a matter of getting paid.

Sue for a million dollars for the mental anguish you suffered when you saw your precious picture in their ad? Uh, no.

Invoice them $25-50 for one-time stock usage in an ad ... why not?

Spork99

OM System OM-1

Canon EF 100mm f/2.8 USM Macro

01/31/2008 11:53:21 PM · #14

Originally posted by GeneralE:

Should be priced quite a bit higher than that, say, $300-$500.

Quasimojo

Canon EOS-30D

Canon EF 17-40mm f/4.0L USM

02/01/2008 06:31:18 AM · #15

Look at it this way - if you had stolen any intellectual property from the bank they would have no hesitation in bringing the lawyers in. Why is it okay for them to do it to you in reverse? Stick one to The Man(tm) - this is a principled stand as well as cash imho.

N

smilebig4me1x

Canon EOS-400D Rebel XTi

Canon EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6

02/01/2008 07:09:07 AM · #16

Im curious about thier response also...hope ya share it when (and if) you get one.
I also agree that too many people are way too quick to sue and I commend you for not being one of them. after hearing thier response I would just send them an invoice for the cost of using your photo in the ad taking into account the circulation ect. Banks are big bizz and they knew it was wrong...actually might not be the bank but an ad agency that did it and the bank is totaly unaware that the image is stolen :/
just out of curisity...is this a local bank, statewide or national bank?

Spork99

OM System OM-1

Canon EF 100mm f/2.8 USM Macro

02/01/2008 10:53:31 AM · #17

Originally posted by smilebig4me1x:

That's why you send them an invoice first along with a letter indicating that you can find no record of them licensing that image from you. It lets you call them on the infringement in a way that gives them a quick out; pay the invoice. The next step, if they ignore you, is to have a lawyer send a letter.

The bank may be unaware of it, but they are still liable, as is the ad agency.

citymars

Nikon D700

02/01/2008 12:06:51 PM · #18

Alan, like smilebig4me1x said, I commend you for not jumping on the easy money lawsuit bandwagon. Lawsuits are a national epidemic. I have a friend who works for a major U.S. television network who does rights and clearances for photos and film clips. One photo slipped through recently (it's a long story but it was an honest error) and the photographer is now trying to sue the network for a huge sum of money.

I hope nevertheless you get fair reimbursement.

02/13/2008 04:19:26 PM · #19

Just thought I'd post a follow-up on this...

I've been back and forth with the folks at the bank (in very friendly terms) for the last couple weeks. They've admitted that when the marketing people needed a certain image for their recent ad, they turned to their IT department, who simply pulled it off the web, apparently unaware that this is a no-no.

I suggested a fair price to them (an average price for what this kind of usage would have normally been worth, based on a stock photo calculator), and they have agreed to pay me for it.

No lawyers, no wild price tags, but a very fair resolution.

mpeters

Canon EOS-5D

Canon EF 50mm f/1.8 II

02/13/2008 04:28:19 PM · #20

Your approach to this issue should be commended. If this suit-~~happy~~obsessed society were only as reasonable...

citymars

Nikon D700

02/13/2008 04:30:21 PM · #21

Good resolution to the problem. Let us know when the check clears!

Canon EF 300mm f/2.8L IS USM

02/13/2008 09:41:54 PM · #22

I would think that, being from a bank, the check should at least be good! :)

Originally posted by citymars:

Good resolution to the problem. Let us know when the check clears!

Skip

Canon EOS-1D X

02/13/2008 10:06:16 PM · #23

nicely played, alan.