Option to buy a 20D - Opinions please....

01/26/2008 10:39:08 AM · #26

Answered my questions....option to configure:

06: Exposure level increments

0: 1/2 stop increments
1: 1/3 stop increments

Canon EF-S 17-85mm f/4-5.6 IS USM

01/26/2008 10:42:21 AM · #27

Thats great. Since I'll have a total of 4 batteries (2 mine, 2 I'd be getting with the camera).

Originally posted by scalvert:

5. Yep, same battery (it might be a higher capacity version, but your 300D battery will work)

sanschag

Canon EOS-350D Rebel XT

01/26/2008 10:54:49 AM · #28

Originally posted by PGerst:

One quick question. Is there any way to edit the files on the card so that the 20D I get will keep the number continuous from what I recently have on my 300D?

I'm at 10758 (0758 due to reroll). How can I make the 20D record the next image as 10759?

Actually, there is. It's a bit roundabout, but here it is:
1) Set file numbering to "non-continuous" (can't recall the exact setting name)
2) Format a card & take a photo. This should be IMG_0001.
3) Remove the card and put it in a reader. Rename the file to IMG_0758. You may have to rename the root folder to 07 instead of 00.
4) Put the card back in the camera and take a shot, which should now be IMG_7059.
5) Reset the file numbering to continuous and you should be good to go.

(You may have to experiment a bit with the details, especially the last step, but something close to this should work. (It actually works on, as far as I know, all Canon cameras. I used it to reset the number on my old Powershot A70 when I neglected to format a card from the 350D before using it.)

Paul

Canon EF 24-70mm f/2.8L USM

01/26/2008 10:58:16 AM · #29

Great idea..I actually didn't think it would work, I'll give it a try. Thanks.

photodude

01/26/2008 11:02:51 AM · #30

I'm thinking of upgrading too. There are new and factory refurbed 30D's available for under $800 from reputable dealers (who score well on resellerratings.com). Might be worth an additional $275 to have a new machine with a warranty and one generation newer.

incubus

Canon EOS-5D

01/26/2008 04:52:57 PM · #31

all you have to do is pop in your memory card from your rebel and the 20 will contiune were the rebel left off. i did that on accident and when i uploaded the pictures to the computer i was comfused.

zeuszen

Canon EOS-1Ds Mark II

Canon EF 24-105mm f/4.0L IS

01/26/2008 05:19:58 PM · #32

Originally posted by PGerst:

I have the option to buy a Canon 20D, used for $500. It is in excellent condition with about 9000 clicks.
I have a Rebel 300D.
I know that the 20D has better noise capability and ISO 3200.
Ignoring those two advantages...what would compel me to get that camera? i.e. can you talk me into it?...

I'm thinking you can get a 30D (with spot-meter) for not much more... I'd pass on the 20D.

soup

Canon EOS-30D

Canon EF 17-40mm f/4.0L USM

01/26/2008 06:24:09 PM · #33

i'd echo that statement.

Canon EF 17-40mm f/4.0L USM

01/26/2008 07:08:06 PM · #34

Thanks. Though, the 30D seems like a very minor, incremental improvement from the 20D with the major difference being the spot metering, down only a few % from the 9% of the 20D.

So here is the $100,000 question:

Focusing simply on the attribute of image quality, what is the advantage of the 20D over the Digital Rebel (300D) in terms of the JPEG and RAW image quality?

Message edited by author 2008-01-26 19:45:14.

rex

Canon PowerShot SD780

01/26/2008 08:16:57 PM · #35

Originally posted by PGerst:

Focusing simply on the attribute of image quality, what is the advantage of the 20D over the Digital Rebel (300D) in terms of the JPEG and RAW image quality?

You probably wouldn't notice a difference IMO. The Rebel is 6MP and the 20D is 8.2MP. Not enough to see a difference IMO.

I would just upgrade to the 20D if I were you. It is a nice camera and you will love it. No worries about the remote. I reviewed one on here somewhere in a thread.

ETA: Found
//www.dpchallenge.com/forum.php?action=read&FORUM_THREAD_ID=518184&page=1#3212866

Message edited by author 2008-01-26 20:26:30.

soup

Canon EOS-30D

01/26/2008 08:27:27 PM · #36

for what it's worth - the spot meter is my most missed option on the 10d ( i sacrifice with the partial meter option ). and an option that might be worth looking into - if you like to be in control of your exposures.

Brad

Olympus OM-D E-M1

Olympus 40-150mm f/2.8 PRO M.Zuiko

01/26/2008 08:29:24 PM · #37

Originally posted by zeuszen:

I'm thinking you can get a 30D (with spot-meter) for not much more... I'd pass on the 20D.

I strongly second this suggestion.

I've used the 20D and the 30D, and the 30D is a far better product. As noted above, the spot metering is a huge benefit at times, as well as the noise control in the 30D being a lot better. Even when pushed to it's limits at ISO3200, the 30D delivers a pretty darn good shot, especially when shot in RAW and during the conversion in Canon's DPP, using the new noise reduction tab, thus cleaning it up pre-conversion. I also believe that the AF mechanism is a bit faster as well, and the LCD is 2.5" vs. 1.8" on the 20D.

Here is a side-by-side comparison

zeuszen

Canon EOS-1Ds Mark II

Canon EF 24-105mm f/4.0L IS

01/26/2008 08:35:13 PM · #38

Originally posted by PGerst:

JPG? Imperceptible. RAW? The 20D has a somewhat higher pixel count and resolution. Noise management should be a little better too. In real life situations, and unless you need to print at marginally larger sizes, the jump may not be noticeable to you.

Sigma 24-70mm f/2.8 EX Aspherical DF for Canon

01/27/2008 08:52:07 AM · #39

Just bumping for any final comments as I am probably going to make this decision tomorrow. I'll have to try out the camera though. From everything I read here and otherwise, the image quality is reasonably comparable to my digital rebel and the upgrade is a feature upgrade. Features that I either have already learned to compensate with, or just don't know what I'm missing.....

hankk

Canon EOS-5D

01/27/2008 08:17:52 PM · #40

Originally posted by PGerst:

Focusing simply on the attribute of image quality, what is the advantage of the 20D over the Digital Rebel (300D) in terms of the JPEG and RAW image quality?

Be careful. In this forum, image quality (IQ) has a specific meaning.

The strict answer is the IQ is slightly better with the 20D, but for most purposes, it will be the same.

The question you may have meant to ask is "will my pictures look better?". I can't answer for the 20D, but going from 300D to 5D:

1. AF is better and faster. Lenses focus speed depends somewhat on the camera AF processor speed, and (IIRC) the electrical current the camera can supply to the lens. The Af for the 5D is a lot faster than the 300D, and I think the 300D doesn't supply as much current as the 5D.

2. The 300D only has a predictive focus in sports mode, but you can't set the ISO there (you are limited to ISO 400). The 5D allows predictive focus in any of the "creative" modes.

3. The 5D has a cross point sensor (more accurate focus with f/2.8 and better lenses). When you are shooting wide open, DOF can be very shallow, and you need the more accurate focus. I don't know if the 20D has this feature.

So far, I've found the 5D does better in (dimly lit) gyms for elementary school basketball games because of the faster and more accurate focus, and becasue of ISO 3200. The focus doesn't improve IQ, but it does improve the pictures you take.

If you're going to set your camera up on a tripod at ISO 100 in full daylight, the IQ between the two cameras will be almost the same, but then any modern P&S can take a good picture in these conditions also. Its when you take pictures in challenging conditions that you will notice the difference between the 300D and the 20D or 30D.

Message edited by author 2008-01-27 20:19:09.

Sony 24-70mm F4 Vario-Tessar T* FE OSS

01/27/2008 08:47:08 PM · #41

Thanks. By the quality of the image I was referring to the overall capability to deliver an image with respect to the 300D. If everything is the same, lens, light, photographer, is there a divergence in the image quality between the Rebel (300D) and the 20D, and if so, where does that occur.

For the most part, posts here have answered my question, as well as other sites which directs that divergence to operating in low light conditions. Essentially the 20D is capable of more, in lower light than the 300D.

With that said, the only issue I found is with the sensor dust. I have absolutely no issues with dust on my 300D, after 4 years and never being cleaned. But it seems more prevalant with higher density chips (8MP on the same size as a 6).

Thanks again all, for the information. I'll have to chat with the seller. I'll need to try this out to see if it is really worthwhile....

Originally posted by hankk:

... In this forum, image quality (IQ) has a specific meaning.

The strict answer is the IQ is slightly better with the 20D, but for most purposes, it will be the same.

The question you may have meant to ask is "will my pictures look better?".

Bear_Music

Samsung Galaxy S24 Ultra

01/27/2008 09:04:13 PM · #42

The 20D uses "Digic II" processing of the image, a significant improvement on the 300D. I used a 300D on loan while waiting for my 20D, and the difference in image quality was noticeable.

R.

Sonifo

Canon EOS-400D Rebel XTi

Canon EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6

01/27/2008 10:12:27 PM · #43

I have used both and they seem to shoot the same. I prefer my rebel to it, but I could say that too if I had bought the 20D later. I am pretty happy with my camera and probably won't buy a new one for awhile yet.

Prof_Fate

01/27/2008 11:14:12 PM · #44

Originally posted by PGerst:

I have the option to buy a Canon 20D, used for $500. It is in excellent condition with about 9000 clicks.

I have a Rebel 300D.

I know that the 20D has better noise capability and ISO 3200.

Ignoring those two advantages...what would compel me to get that camera? i.e. can you talk me into it? :)

Thanks....

Comparing those two, the 20D is a step up..but then that's like comparing a 63 chevy to a 67 chevy..a step up from one to the other, but both old tech by todays standards.
The price on the 20D is a good one, or at least fair (I haven't checked prices lately, but to get $500 for my 20D would satisfy me so I'd call it fair)

ISO 3200 isn't good for much on a 20D, very noisy. You'll find the 20D ergonomically better than the 300D, more solidly built, more features, and probably better noise at 800 and above.
If you can sell your 300D for $300 (No clue on their going prices) is they upgrade worth $200? Yeah, probably. 9000 clicks is like nothing.
Would I recomend a 400XYi over a 20D?...hmm, that's a much tougher call. You can get a new 400XTi for $519 from B&H...ergonomically it's not got the wheel or joystick, but you've not grown accustomed to them so it won't phase you not to have them. If you could do the smaller body of the 400 it might be a better choice than a 20D. It's gonna focus about the same, but be faster in startup and feature wise perhaps be even better.

Message edited by author 2008-01-27 23:14:47.

hankk

Canon EOS-5D

Sigma 24-70mm f/2.8 EX Aspherical DF for Canon

01/28/2008 10:12:38 AM · #45

Originally posted by PGerst:

If the subject is moving, like sports or a two-year-old, the predictive focus on the 20D will help get better pictures.

Just realized that the 350D, 20D and up have mirror lock up. the 300D doesn't (unless you use the patch). So this is another instance where you have a tool that may make an image better.

So yes, a photographer may outgrow the 300D and need a better body to take better pictures. But I think the 90/10 rule holds here--that is, you can take a picture that is 90% as good with a camera that has 10% of the cost, so paying a lot more money lets you take a slightly better picture. :-) Of course, one can take lousy pictures with the best camera :-(

As Prof Fate said, the 400D is a step up, and the 350D is still available and costs less. IMO, theres a big step from the 300D to the 350D, and a smaller one from the 350D to the 400D.

Here's a list of the 350D specs, the differences from the 350 are noted by a green asterisk. //www.dpreview.com/reviews/CanonEOS350D/page2.asp
Similar list for the 400D //www.dpreview.com/reviews/canoneos400d/page2.asp

Nullix

Canon EOS-5D Mark III

Canon EF 17-40mm f/4.0L USM

01/28/2008 11:23:08 AM · #46

Not certain if it's been said (too lazy to read through the whole thread), but screw the body.

Spend your money on some lenses.

01/28/2008 10:24:17 PM · #47

Thanks again everyone for all the responses....including the PMs....

Looks like I'm going to get it....