Yes...another studio lighting question....

01/22/2008 09:58:02 PM · #1

....Well a few questions actually.

I have just received my Mettle MT160 strobe flash kit (two in kit) each which consist of stand, strobe with modelling light and umbrella. These can be sinc'd to the camera or set off via slave sensor. Now I am happy to play with how these are positioned to get the best effect. My questions are to do with the camera settings.

Obviously if I were to use the portrait setting it will read existing light conditions and not account for the extra lighting, so that isn't going to work. What are the best settings to begin with when working with two strobes and camera mounted flash (probably facing more to the ceiling). Should I set everything manually or go with AV or TV. Any help to point me in the right direction would be great. Also any other advice about how close is too close etc would be helpful. The room that I shoot in is only about 5mtrs x 4mtrs. Also on the back of the strobe there is a dial that has 1/8 1/4 1/2 1/1 written on it, they are different power settings for different exposures. How does this work.

Thanks everyone. Monique

01/22/2008 10:12:12 PM · #2

Exposure:
Your best bet is to use a light meter to measure the strobe output. Lacking then ... shoot an 18% gray card and adjust your exposure until it spikes in the middle.

Quality of light:
The bigger the light source, the softer the light. The smaller the source of light, the harsher the light. (and THAT right there is the secret to why your on-camera flash is so harsh) That's why we use umbrellas or softboxes - to make the source of light larger. A secondary rule is that the closer the light is to the subject, the larger the light source is. Conversely, the further away the light is, the smaller it gets. And thus, close to the subject equals soft light, far from the subject equals harsh light. So ... close and large for soft portraits, far and small for moody portraits.

Placement:
The easiest setup to try initially is to put one light back where the camera is (straight on to the subject), but above the camera. And put the other light at about a 45 degree angle to the side and 45 degrees up (10:00 or 2:00 position). The first light is your fill light. The second light is your main light. You use more power (or put it closer) so that it is the stronger light - the one that defines the shadows - the one that creates the three dimensional portrait. And the one back behind the camera is used simply to fill in and soften the shadows created by the main light. So you keep it turned down (or further away - remember, light reduces with the square of the distance).

There are some tips to get you started. :-)

01/23/2008 01:16:20 AM · #3

Originally posted by dwterry:

Thank you for your tips. As far as placement and light goes I will have a play. I dont have a light meter or grey card so what would you recommend for me to do now?

fotomann_forever

01/23/2008 01:31:08 AM · #4

You can get by for a while with just looking at the histogram and preview. Look for blown highlights and such.

I find it easier to set aperture at what I want it to be (for DoF) and adjust light output to get what I want. Do some test shots and go look on the computer... you'll get a pretty good idea of what to expect from your lights pretty quickly.

Tamron AF 28-300mm f/3.5-6.3 XR Di LD Aspherical IF for Canon

01/23/2008 04:51:19 AM · #5

Thank you, I will have some time tomorrow to play so I will see how I go.

pix-al

Canon EOS-5D

01/23/2008 05:00:50 AM · #6

Switch to manual...Don't use the auto settings. As you said, the camera will meter the available light not knowing the flashes are going to fire.

When using my two flashes wirelessly I start at around F8 and 1/125 sec and adjust settings/light output to suit...???

Tamron AF 28-300mm f/3.5-6.3 XR Di LD Aspherical IF for Canon

01/23/2008 05:05:51 AM · #7

Originally posted by pix-al:

Thank you, I was hoping to get a suggested starting point. In regards to the output, is that what the 1/1 1/2 1/4 1/8 on the strobe are all about. Which is more light output and which is less?

pix-al

Canon EOS-5D

01/23/2008 05:17:04 AM · #8

Originally posted by Monique64:

In regards to the output, is that what the 1/1 1/2 1/4 1/8 on the strobe are all about. Which is more light output and which is less?

You got it.

1/1 is full power
1/8 is one eighth power etc...

These are probably much more powerful that my flash units, so start on 1/4 and see where it gets you (Depends how far your lights are away from your subject too...)

As already mentioned - Use your histogram to judge your exposure and adjust as necessary.

01/23/2008 05:17:24 AM · #9

1/1 is full power, 1/8 is an 8th of the maximum power output of the flash- the higher the power the stronger the light, the further away it can be positioned, but also, the recycle time will increase dramatically over say, if you were firing the flash on 1/8 power. It will also use a lot more power so if your kit takes batteries, carry a spare set.

As for the exposure, always use Manual mode when you control the light. The shutter speed controls the ambient light and the aperture controls the brightness of the flash. I usually start at ISO100, F/6.3 at 1/200 (my fastest sync speed), and set the lights on the lowest power.

By doing this you have a lot of variables with the light because you can change a lot of the factors as you control the light and its strength- you can make the light stronger by raising the ISO, taking the aperture to F/5 or F/4, or by moving the lights closer... inversely, light can be weakened by lowering ISO, taking the aperture to F/8 or F/10 (sometimes I've had to go down to around F/18 when using 3 lights to not blow out any part of a picture, but this results in diffraction, which is an entirely other topic and has no place here).

Best bet is to play around and just get used to the way they fire and the spread of the light, take self portraits with the lights at different angles and positions but keeping the camera settings the same. You will see differences if you move the light just 1 foot in any direction.

ShutterHack

01/23/2008 05:25:32 AM · #10

[user]fotomann_forever[/user]
suggested a site //www.strobist.com It covers lighting in detail regarding using strobes. You can go through the site and learn all about lighting. Beware! It is very addicting! I have spent countless hours on the site in the past two months.

you will be able to use what you learn on this site and tailor it for your gear.

Message edited by author 2008-01-23 05:26:59.

01/23/2008 06:36:53 AM · #11

All of this help is awesome. I am going to print out this thread as it is too much to remember or write down. I hope one day to be able to help others as much as I have received help. I seem like at the moment I am doing all the taking and no giving.

On another note a local photographer has asked me to do her photos and on the outside it said "sure" but on the inside I was screaming "Ohhhhh no, what am I goin to do!!!!?????" So I will be playing like mad as I only have one 5 or 6 days till she comes in. I think when it comes to portraiture I wing it a little bit and dont do too bad of a job but this will be different.

01/23/2008 07:01:31 AM · #12

Just breathe... relax... think it through. You have 2 lights. Play it safe. Use the 45 degree angle thing and you'll get good, usable shots. Lighting isn't the hardest thing in the world and it doesn't rest on a knife edge, also, since you shoot digital you can keep on taking pics if it doesn't look right and i find if you mvoe stuff around, change things it makes it look to the client that you're trying to get them in the best light (literally) and working for them to make them look their best, and they'll probs be mroe appreciative of the fact you're trying than if you sat them on a chair and just shot the same things.

Just try and try and you'll see it's not much to be afraid of because there's always something you can change to get things back in line.

01/23/2008 07:08:19 AM · #13

Deep breath......thanks that helps. One more question, does it matter how high I have the strobes. Should they be at head height or higher? Or is this something else I should play with.

01/23/2008 07:12:34 AM · #14

Originally posted by Monique64:

Deep breath......thanks that helps. One more question, does it matter how high I have the strobes. Should they be at head height or higher? Or is this something else I should play with.

You can experiment for different effects, of course. But higher is generally better. Remember 45 degrees up 45 degrees over for your main light. That will cast a shadow downwards across the face. Similar to if the person was standing outside with the light up in the case.

If the light were at face level, you'd have shadows running straight across the face and that would look odd. Odder still would be to have the light down below face level ... whenever I see a nose shadow run up towards the eye (instead of down across the cheek) it just makes me shiver, it looks so odd.

01/23/2008 07:12:52 AM · #15

Head height works best for me when i use something called split lighting*.

Otherwise, a higher height is usually recommended as this more closely imitates natural light from the sun and also it gives a nice 3d effect on people. Too high though and it creates shadows udner the eyes, nose and bottom lip and chin, which might be what you're going for. But 45 degrees to the side and the same above is a safe bet.

split lighting= when the light is from a 90 angle (so straight from the right or left side) so only half the face/subject is illuminated:

[thumb]626098[/thumb]

Prof_Fate

01/23/2008 09:44:05 AM · #16

camera needs to be in manual mode. generally studio work is done around F8, but I've used f5.6 up to f11 or so - depends on the subject really.
1/125 is the most common shutter speed. Yes, your camera can sync faster, but there is a delay from when you push the shutter button until the last bit of light from the strobes fades, and studio strobes generally have a longer duration of flash compared to speed lights. The flash will freeze an motion so fast shutter speeds are not important. For wedding formals I often go down to 1/8 second and have NO blur from camera shake or subject movement.

As to how bright to adjust your strobes themselves...you need a flash meter. Setting them at 1/2 power is fine, BUT if you change their distance to the subject you change the exposure (great for fine tuning). If you add ANY modifiers then the amount of light at the subject changes as well - be that a snoot, sofbox, umbrella, etc.

Play around and find what works for you. Hi key is always very flat lighting, 2 or 3 people need different lighting setup than one person (shadow issues).

I have good luck with a strobe to the side of the subject set to shoot thru teh umbrella ( i use a 60" umbrella) and its' set as the main light. a second strobe bounced into the umbrella is set behind me and high as fill (1 stop less light at the subject - hence the need for a meter!).

01/25/2008 02:03:25 AM · #17

OK, so I have been having a play but so far dont even have anything remotely close to being good light. I have been using 5.6+ aperature and speeds between 1/60-1/200 and trying IOS 100-400. I have tried all sort of variations of these. I have tried closer to the strobes and further. I have tried the strobes on more and less power. I am using my speedlight on my camera to trigger the flash strobes. Could this be interfering with the lighting setup. HELPPPPPP

fotomann_forever

01/25/2008 03:46:43 AM · #18

Originally posted by ShutterHack:

Be warned that you might spend countless hours playing with little wooden dolls and shoe mount flashes.

01/25/2008 06:34:30 AM · #19

Okay, so you've tried all of those settings ... what is wrong with what you are getting? Can you try "one" such setting and post an example? Then we could analyze it to figure out what when wrong and suggest solutions.

01/25/2008 07:26:56 AM · #20

If you're triggering the lights with the on camera flash, have you turned the power way way down? Otherwise the on camera flash would overpower the other lights as to make them meaningless, because it would just be like on-camera flash, which it essentially is.

But yeah, examples would be good then we can reverse engineer them and see what's left.

01/25/2008 07:47:36 AM · #21

One quick thought (remember I'm guessing because you didn't come right out and say what was wrong with what you were getting):

If the problem is that the strobes are firing ... and yet they don't APPEAR to be firing (because the image is dark no matter what power settings you use), then the problem is probably related to e-TTL.

With e-TTL, your flash fires a pre-flash to measure the light before the shutter ever opens. Then a second, more powerful flash, is used for the real exposure when the shutter opens. The trouble with this is that slaves are often fooled by the pre-flash. They trigger when the first flash goes off, and by the time the shutter opens, the light is already gone and you get nothing from them. So essentially your on-camera flash ends up doing all of the work, because the strobes fired too early.

The solution, if you're using an external flash, is to set your flash to manual mode instead of e-TTL. That way it will only fire one flash.

If you don't have an external flash, then you're going to need a Sync Cord to connect your camera to one of the strobes. The other strobe will fire when it sees the first strobe fire. So just connect your camera to the nearest strobe.

If dark images isn't the problem that you're seeing, then please post an example of what you're getting so that we have a better idea what you're up against.