| Author | Thread |
|
|
01/19/2008 11:11:41 PM · #176 |
| These types of threads are so amusing. The people who start them are always the ones least interested in having a discussion and those who respond get largely ignored when they make points that disprove the OP's claims. Why even start a thread, or take part in one, if you have no desire to defend your positions when challenged? |
|
|
|
01/19/2008 11:15:59 PM · #177 |
Originally posted by yanko:
These types of threads are so amusing. The people who start them are always the ones least interested in having a discussion and those who respond get largely ignored when they make points that disprove the OP's claims. Why even start a thread, or take part in one, if you have no desire to defend your positions when challenged? |
You are ALWAYS so rational, lol. Luv it! :P |
|
|
|
01/19/2008 11:21:35 PM · #178 |
Cave dwellers liked their pictures too, and they were pretty good for the technology at the time.
I don't think that anyone can put "photography" in a "box" any longer. Processing has always been a part of the package, and if you are using a digital camera, then digital processing is just an extension of the camera. The better digital cameras that have all the choices about exposure allow you to tailor the shooting to get what you want or to get the desired end product with the least amount of processing, but they are just another better tool to collect the light and capture the moment.
Make photos that please yourself, and do it your own way. Just do it. and be happy about it. : )
|
|
|
|
01/20/2008 12:28:51 AM · #179 |
Originally posted by JulietNN:
Okay, Man called horse, you look at my portfolio, all but about 4 shots are completely unedited by PS, you can tell the ones that I have tried to use PS on cos they look like crap.
|
People round these parts, maam, know me as a straight shooter. I don't hold back, or BS. I say what is on my mind usually.
I saw your portfolio before I posted my thoughts.
Truthfully, I think there is a great deal of potential for your art. But, even by your past admittance, your imagery is too dark, and very soft. Now, that may be the type of thing you may of convinced yourself is a good thing. And, on a subjective level, your correct, it is a good thing.
On a level where you want to be recognize, Photoshop techniques can, and will bring your imagery to the next level. Using the light to make the eye move along the imagery, instead of the current way, straight from the camera, where I have to try and focus, and figure out what the hell I'm looking at.
As a viewer, your imagery is intriguing, but, first impressions are everything. If I have to look at an image for more than a second to try and figure out what I am looking at because you think PS is not worth the time to spend improving your stuff, then it is not worth the time for me to spend gazing at it either.
I,someday, hope to be a fan of yours.
Until that day......
Photoshop is not photography, photoshop is a tool for photography.
|
|
|
|
01/20/2008 01:15:02 AM · #180 |
Originally posted by hyperfocal:
In a way I totally agree with the original poster. If I could afford to shoot 10,000 or so chromes a year I'd never pick up a digital camera again. |
What does that have to do with Photoshop??? |
|
|
|
01/20/2008 02:28:23 AM · #181 |
| It's all been said. But how many will confess to a half bottle of gin just to resize (and compress)? There is true valour. Hope all goes well for JulietNN's photoshop class. At the moment I am dipping into The Gimp (need more than a full bottle of gin), and feel totally whelmed by the possibilities, or like the man blind from birth or very early age whose vision was medically restored and couldn't cope at all. (One of the Oliver Sacks' books). |
|
|
|
01/20/2008 10:19:26 AM · #182 |
I used to goto AA and NA lots. One of the sayings that gets floated around is "when you point at someone, three fingers point back at yourself". In the short time I've been here I have found that people (including myself) who have plenty of photography experience but little in the way of PS for photography are the most vocal.
Play with photoshop. Edit/remix your images. Find a personal editing style that suits you and your photographs. Try new stuff. Then you'll know where photoshop works for you, your photos look better and everyone is happy. And the horse doesn't get the flogging that he's just so bored of ;)
N
- recovering purist |
|
|
|
01/20/2008 10:33:30 AM · #183 |
I got a Canon slr in 1981 (about). Lots of fun and I also discovered darkrooms and Kodachrome. I loved Kodachrome, who wouldn't, but the only way to get your hands dirty and involved in the process after the shutter trips, was monochrome. Even pushing ISO was an unlikely resort with colour slides, while b&w offered fun fun fun possibilities.
Photoshop snuck into my life about 15 years later. I had no camera but got some old slides scanned just to try it out. Sho 'nuff, Photoshop enables the photographer to stay with the process all the way through and to get the hands wet and dirty, albeit in a virtual sense.
Then again, I have no pride.
ETA, as little as I knew of tricks in Photoshop, it was straight away evident that there's no substitute for a good original picture.
Message edited by author 2008-01-20 10:39:34. |
|
|
|
01/20/2008 11:16:31 AM · #184 |
Originally posted by Quasimojo:
In the short time I've been here I have found that people (including myself) who have plenty of photography experience but little in the way of PS for photography are the most vocal. |
I'm not necessarily sure I agree with this. I think it has less to do with the photography experience than a basic fear of things new and unknown.
I've been a car junkie all my life, a photographer, and just a man with a fascination for things unknown my whole life and an insatiable curiosity.
I found during my automotive career that there were so many people opposed to new technology under the premise that "It works fine, why on earth would you mess with it?".
This covered a gamut of improvements and progression in the car industry to cover such earth-shattering discoveries as disc brakes, ABS, fuel injection, computer engine management, airbags, all-wheel-drive, overhead cams, and a host of other things that we all take for granted and are now just regular features in cars instead of ground-breaking technology.
And the most stubborn and loudest detractors of all of this progress were the people I knew in the industry itself! The same mechanics, parts people, and other tangential services in the industry just dug in their heels and resisted all of these things in a manner that just completely escaped me!
Personally, I loved that the cars got better in so many ways, moving rapidly to levels of comfort, safety, and reliable performance unimaginable a decade or two ago.
I watched the same thing happen with electronic technology......I remember when I didn't know how to work my beeper.....anybody even use one of them any more?
Now you have the 'Net on the fly and total communication from just about anywhere, anytime, in the palm of your hand!
It took me about two days after I got my D70s to be done with film and the only processing program I had at the time was the MS Picture Manager that came with my MS Office.
And you know, those first couple days just being able to crop the image and lighten/darken a little just blew me away.....no more special trip to the photo shop and spend money just to move the image around a little......I could do it MYSELF!!!
And when I got PhotoShop, I was able to help myself transform that image that when I downloaded it didn't quite appear like I saw or imagined.
All of a sudden that vision was attainable with the click of a mouse.
I can't even imagine what I'll be able to do once I can get my schedule sorted enough that I can take the courses at the local community college.
Originally posted by Quasimojo:
Play with photoshop. Edit/remix your images. Find a personal editing style that suits you and your photographs. Try new stuff. Then you'll know where photoshop works for you, your photos look better and everyone is happy. And the horse doesn't get the flogging that he's just so bored of ;)
N- recovering purist |
To me, being a purist means being true to the vision and concept that I had while taking the shot. If I use PhotoShop to help me realize that vision and concept, it's a good thing on many levels.
It's not that Photoshop does or changes anything.....it's merely a tool to achieve the result YOU want.....nothing more, nothing less. Use it or not, your choice, but I have wonderful glimpses of life that I never would have had with film.
Like  Quasimojo said, "Find a personal editing style that suits you and your photographs.".
Well put, IMO.
Oh, and BTW, let me know what you think when you discover RAW.....the universe becomes even bigger and more beautiful!
|
|
|
|
01/20/2008 11:26:22 AM · #185 |
Originally posted by JulietNN:
If there is a huge zit the size of a mountain, then rearrange the model or lighting to get rid of it, or at least make it look like a mole hill. Softer focus, less lighting. Harsh point of view, more lighting etc etc etc. |
Just a little example of your example viewed from a PS point-of-view. I took this young lady's portrait at Mom's request.....check the nose. One click with the mouse doing a spot edit made Mom a friend for life.
[thumb]610356[/thumb]****[thumb]610357[/thumb]
I DIDN'T have to have her rearrange herself so I could shoot from the side without the piercing......she may have balked at that, and I could tell when I shot her that PS would zap that little spike with no problem.
|
|
|
|
01/20/2008 11:28:12 AM · #186 |
N Jeb, That was rather eloquent!
|
|
|
|
01/20/2008 11:56:24 AM · #187 |
LOL.. This topic is STILL going on.. GEEZ!!
|
|
|
|
01/20/2008 12:00:00 PM · #188 |
Originally posted by Man_Called_Horse:
[quote=JulietNN]
|
People round these parts, maam, know me as a straight shooter. I don't hold back, or BS. I say what is on my mind usually.
I saw your portfolio before I posted my thoughts.
If I have to look at an image for more than a second to try and figure out what I am looking at because you think PS is not worth the time to spend improving your stuff, then it is not worth the time for me to spend gazing at it either.
]
Well, I feel kinda sad that you have to have instant gratification within 1 second. No photograph should just have to grab you in one second, don't you sit and look at paintings or sculptures and see different things every time you study it. Don't you want to know, how the light is played over a canvas to create a different background ever time, is it not interesting to have to know anatomy so the light is carved down different muscles or bones to create the shot. If you don't look at a picture you wont see the different shades of blacks, browns, whites. To me it is fascinating that you can actually get a shot like that.
I have had 5 of my shots in national magazines and 1 international, Hot Rod, Skin and Ink, MG International, Rat Rod and lastly Red. Obviously they are not some crapola mags, these are very well known established mags.
With that being said, it is all about what other people see and like. Some people get that it is dark and moody, some people say it is brilliant. Others like yourself just don't like this style or see it as dark and moody and do not look any closer than 1 second. That is really up to them, and I am nto here to convince them that they should.
Everybody should use what they want and how they want it with these programs, I find it fascinating what some people can create in these programs. Myself, I just love the challenge of creating something that I do not want to edit. That is just the way I am.
Take my pictures of Layna, her face is a completely different colour than her body. She has birthmarks all over her face and body. Now with lightpainting I can create pictures of her that in a normal studio setting would be impossible and no amount of PS would help without it looking complety fake. For her to have shots of her that she had never had done was a heartbreaking indescribable moment in her life. She had never had any photographs of herself, ever. Now she has.
THAT is what photography is all about. That one defining moment when you transform someone elses life for the better.
Not whether you use PS or not.
But obviously you have clients that really really like your work, just as I have with mine. So it is all about what makes us happy and what makes the clients happy.
|
|
|
|
01/20/2008 12:13:56 PM · #189 |
Originally posted by JulietNN:
So it is all about what makes us happy and what makes the clients happy. |
Happiness is the bottom line to life.
|
|
|
|
01/20/2008 12:17:05 PM · #190 |
| a zit is one thing since you can't control when you get one, but a piercing? shame on mom not wanting a picture of her daughter being who she wants to be. |
|
|
|
01/20/2008 12:19:54 PM · #191 |
I've had a look at your portfolio...some shots are nice...well lit and such..but then I read your comments with one of them and of course I saw your SP's with all those guns and knifes. To tell you the truth (and from what I've read in this thread) to me you're just a photographer with no PS skills whatsoever so you just go around shouting that's not photography. you hide behind this facade of being straight forward and direct and your supposed artistic side. to me you're just as fake as some of those over processed photo's.
Why did you start this thread anyway? To show us mere mortal DPC-ers your superiority? Oh sure you've been published..wanna know how many more here have been published? Just get off that high horse of yours...so you don't like PS..well that's completely up to you. But don't you dare go around saying that processing is not photography. I find you very aggressive and arrogant in that way.
It's a shame you don't understand Dutch, otherwise you would understand when I'd say :
Message edited by kirbic - Removed personal attack. |
|
|
|
01/20/2008 12:53:18 PM · #192 |
| I'll remind *all* participants that personal attacks are strictly forbidden. Please review the forum rules. |
|
|
|
01/20/2008 12:56:01 PM · #193 |
I dont know why you guys are making such a big deal of this. Photoshop is NOT photography. Photoshop is a part of photography and you have the option of using it or not. If you dont like PS dont use it and if you do like PS and then use it. Then RESPECT the works of others, even if you dont agree on what they've used to achieve it. Its pretty pointless to argue about this because no one is going to win.
|
|
|
|
01/20/2008 12:58:28 PM · #194 |
[quote=Puckzzz] I've had a look at your portfolio...some shots are nice...well lit and such..but then I read your comments with one of them and of course I saw your SP's with all those guns and knifes. To tell you the truth (and from what I've read in this thread) to me you're just a photographer with no PS skills whatsoever
*********Yes, I agree and stated that in the very first comment that I made on here********
so you just go around shouting that's not photography.
***********I have NEVER said that**************
you hide behind this facade of being straight forward and direct and your supposed artistic side. to me you're just as fake as some of those over processed photo's.
*********OKay, well I am sorry you feel that way*************
Why did you start this thread anyway?
**********I did not start this tread**********
To show us mere mortal DPC-ers your superiority?
*************In what, I have never said that or implied that***********
Oh sure you've been published..wanna know how many more here have been published?
*************Thousands of others, it was not meant to be superiority, it was just a point that some like my work, where as some do not********
Just get off that high horse of yours...
***********I wasnt on it, never was*********
so you don't like PS..well that's completely up to you.
*********Then why am I taking lessons in it???*****
But don't you dare go around saying that processing is not photography.
********YOU show me where I said that, you won't*********
I find you very aggressive and arrogant in that way.
********I am sorry you feel that way******
I think you need to reread what I have said in this thread and you will find, that I support anyone in however and whatever medium they do with their photography.
I thought your port was stunning, now it is still stunning, but what a bitter taste you have left. And I am sorry you felt that you needed to do that to me.
Message edited by scalvert - Quoted personal attack removed. |
|
|
|
01/20/2008 12:59:03 PM · #195 |
Originally posted by elsapo:
I dont know why you guys are making such a big deal of this. Photoshop is NOT photography. Photoshop is a part of photography and you have the option of using it or not. If you dont like PS dont use it and if you do like PS and then use it. Then RESPECT the works of others, even if you dont agree on what they've used to achieve it. Its pretty pointless to argue about this because no one is going to win. |
well said..but I really do hate those purists that go around shouting that photoshop is not photography. it's PART of photography, from way back in the beginning it's been done. |
|
|
|
01/20/2008 01:04:27 PM · #196 |
Originally posted by JulietNN:
|
yea I mistook you for the TS...but that's about all.
and I don't mind if I left a bitter taste in your mouth about my personality. Can't love everybody... |
|
|
|
01/20/2008 01:05:40 PM · #197 |
Originally posted by desertoddity:
a zit is one thing since you can't control when you get one, but a piercing? shame on mom not wanting a picture of her daughter being who she wants to be. |
But you must understand this is a young woman who has yet to reach her majority......yet Mom *DID* allow her to get a hole punched in her nose under the guise of her being who she wants to be.
Mom's just happy with me for providing her with a picture of Emily as Emily would be without the "Expression of Self".
What is an expression of self to some is self-mutilation to others.
I gave them both shots printed......I try not to make judgements.....but I also know from Mom's age, an old fart like myself, that she preffered her beautiful little girl without the hole punched in her nostril.
But she let her have it done because she respected her daughter's quest for self-expression.
She has more guts than I.....my daughter has to wait 'til she's 18 to do anything more than the couple holes in her ears.
Though I respect and understand her ideas and wishes, I hope to defer any decisions like that 'til she is older, and I hope, wiser.
I also happen to think that any shrapnel stuck in her flesh would mar, rather than enhance, a beautiful young woman.
Just my $0.02 U.S.......YMMV
|
|
|
|
01/20/2008 01:08:16 PM · #198 |
Originally posted by NikonJeb:
.....my daughter has to wait 'til she's 18 to do anything more than the couple holes in her ears. |
I've always wondered why the ears were granted this special exemption from the ban on self-mutilation ... |
|
|
|
01/20/2008 01:09:50 PM · #199 |
Wow, this thread is still going on? Must be a hot-button topic.
I'll add my two cents to say that the more I begin (and I stress begin) to learn about post-processing, the less rigidly "purist" I am. Funny how that works! :-)
By the way, NikonJeb, I like both of those examples. |
|
|
|
01/20/2008 01:21:17 PM · #200 |
Originally posted by NikonJeb:
.....my daughter has to wait 'til she's 18 to do anything more than the couple holes in her ears. |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
I've always wondered why the ears were granted this special exemption from the ban on self-mutilation ... |
Not too sure myself......I do know that because of my age, I have always loved the outrageous big hoops......can't do them in clip-on!.....8>)
ETA: No hoops for me....on women! LOL!!!
Message edited by author 2008-01-20 13:22:34.
|
|
