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01/10/2008 02:03:41 AM · #1 |
Hey everyone,
Just to warn you, this is a bit long. I'm a point-and-shoot user who has long since outgrown her camera. While I can still get great shots with it, this summer I will finally be in the position to buy a camera I've been dreaming about for years: A DSLR. I know there are lots of options out there, so I'm starting my search early.
I'm a very quick learner and one of my concerns is that I might outgrow my camera. How do you guys feel on the subject? This is the one and only time within the next few years that I will be able to afford a DSLR, and I want to make it count. Originally I was looking at the Canon Rebel either 300D or 350D, but due to Nikon's compatibility with a larger variety of lenses, I feel that Nikon might be the better way for me to go. However, Canon has not been completely ruled out.
This camera will become my main camera, except when I need a tiny camera, in which case I'll still use my point-and-shoot. I'm planning to use the DSLR from everything from macro shots and landscapes, to sports/nature photography, as well as general city life shots. It will see quite a bit of use while I'm traveling around the city. Due to this, it makes me think that a smaller amateur DSL like Canon 300D/350D or the Nikon D40 might due well. I know several people who swear by the D40. However, the D40 is only 6 MP, and like I said before, I will not be in the position to upgrade for at least a few years, if not longer.
If I buy a more economic model (those previously mentioned), I will have enough to buy the camera, at least a 2GB memory card, bag, a few accessories and a better lens or two than the provided stock one.
However, I will have around $2500, possibly up to $3000 to spend on this camera. Would it be better for me to get the Nikon 200D? I've been very impressed with what I've read and what I've seen regarding it. It's a bit heavier, but also a bit more rugged and protected from the elements. I'm a very big rain or shine photographer, and will be carting this everywhere, so I need a rugged camera. I have no doubt it will be a bit of a learning curve, but as I previously stated, I learn quickly. This camera could easily last me for 5+ years without any problem, which is what I'm looking for. However, due to it's higher price, if I just buy the body I could only buy one lens, and that would have to be it for probably a year or so. (I obviously would still buy the necessary accessories/memory card, etc). Or if I bought it complete with the 18-200mm lens (which is probably the one I would buy anyways) then it would just be the camera and the accessories.
Which do you think is better? Do you think that the D200 is way too much for someone who has never owned a DSLR? Is outgrowing the d40/Rebel even a plausible worry?
Thank you so much. I'd love to see what everyone thinks on the subject. |
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01/10/2008 02:18:25 AM · #2 |
Hello!
Here are my thoughts. All of the DSLR's you have mentioned so far allow for you to grow because of their ability to go full manual. The company that I shoot for has us using D40's and I can tell you that it certainly will work just fine for you. For the amount of money you mentioned you will certainly be able to buy camera and gear. If you are truly planning to spend up to $3000 you might price yourself into a totally different set of cameras however. I currently have a Canon 40D for personal use and I am less than $3000 dollars in. Truth be told you could get a 40D with the kit lens and pick up one of the cheap L glass models with that amount of money. However, I think the body while important is not your biggest thing to think about. When you buy a DSLR what you are really buying is a system of lenses. The reason a person is a Canon or Nikon shooter while it in some way comes down to bodies for many it comes down to the glass. I respectfully disagree that there is more Nikon glass out there than Canon. This could be debated all day, but I picked Canon for their glass. While I love my 40D its technology should be outdated long before my glass is outdated. So I bought the body to work with the glass of my choice. So, I doubt I answered anything for you, but hopefully gave you more to think about. Happy hunting! |
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01/10/2008 02:20:49 AM · #3 |
Canon EOS 5D 12.8 mp
$2100 @ B&H
few hundred left over for a nice lens
Nothing else needs to be said.
Message edited by author 2008-01-10 02:22:37. |
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01/10/2008 02:29:47 AM · #4 |
Sarah - my advice to you is to go to a store and play around with both brands, their entry models and then the one above.
I had the 300D Canon which was more than enough for a 'learning' DSLR and when mine died I went up to the 30D which I was 'ready' for.
I've tried the 5D and it's just too big for my hands - wonderful, sublime, exceptional, but not a realistic choice for me as a handheld or walkaround camera.
The 30D took me a bit to get used to after my 300D - but I've grown into it and simply ADORE it!
I now 'understand' that the lenses are where the money should be spent. So in my opinion I'd look at all options and the lenses they come with and then go to a store & FEEL what your future would be - GRIN!
Canon 'suited' me and I'm a proud owner, so consider me biased - GRIN - now go touch up some cameras! |
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01/10/2008 02:32:21 AM · #5 |
| If you are not tied into any system by lens already owned, do some research on dpreview then go to a large camera retailer that stocks most of the brands, ask to hold them see which one feels right in your hand,ie. will you be able to reach all crucial buttons comfortably. Get enough megapixels to print at the sizes you want, check out the starting iso, for example cameras that start atiso 200 are a pain in bright country like Africa. Most important before you buy the body will you in the future be able to afford good lenses forit. and don't go with the popular choice just because it is popular go with what is right for you! |
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01/10/2008 02:32:42 AM · #6 |
Originally posted by Mike_Adams:
Hello!
Here are my thoughts. All of the DSLR's you have mentioned so far allow for you to grow because of their ability to go full manual. The company that I shoot for has us using D40's and I can tell you that it certainly will work just fine for you. For the amount of money you mentioned you will certainly be able to buy camera and gear. If you are truly planning to spend up to $3000 you might price yourself into a totally different set of cameras however. I currently have a Canon 40D for personal use and I am less than $3000 dollars in. Truth be told you could get a 40D with the kit lens and pick up one of the cheap L glass models with that amount of money. However, I think the body while important is not your biggest thing to think about. When you buy a DSLR what you are really buying is a system of lenses. The reason a person is a Canon or Nikon shooter while it in some way comes down to bodies for many it comes down to the glass. I respectfully disagree that there is more Nikon glass out there than Canon. This could be debated all day, but I picked Canon for their glass. While I love my 40D its technology should be outdated long before my glass is outdated. So I bought the body to work with the glass of my choice. So, I doubt I answered anything for you, but hopefully gave you more to think about. Happy hunting! |
You did give me lots to think about. It's an interesting way of thinking to look at the body as replaceable whereas the glass is more important. I'll need to get used to that. I do agree with you that in the long term, you are buying the glass, not the body. I'll definitely have to re-examine Canon's line of lens, as well as take a more in depth look at Nikon as well. Canon 40D, I'll have to add that to my list to research. Thanks! |
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01/10/2008 02:51:07 AM · #7 |
| Lisa and sulamk - The 5D might not be an option for me either, as I have tiny hands and its even hard to find gloves that fit! I was actually thinking of going into a large camera store in my area that I once stumbled into trying to kill time. Back then I just wandered around in a bit of a daze, and had no actual purpose in mind. They may not have had the most approachable sales staff, but man their selection of cameras more than made up for it. I'll have to go look around when I have an hour or two. As both of you mentioned, I definitely want to get a feel for the camera, and see which feels 'right'. At least that way I might be able to rule out a few, it seems my list has gotten pretty long. Sulamk, thank you so much for reminding me to find what's best for me, and that it may not be the popular ones. I usually don't have a problem doing my own thing, but it was a great reminder that I needed. |
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01/10/2008 06:22:22 AM · #8 |
I agree with the advice given - do a bit of research (dpreview includes size information so you can pick appropriately) to pick a model or two from each brand you're willing to consider, then go into a shop. If the salespeople don't approach you (which is pretty crappy), approach them - you're a going-to-be-paying customer so you should expect to get some service (one wonders why they wouldn't want to grab an opportunity to sell something!). If they still don't help, then walk out and find a better shop.
Besides the Canon and Nikon, I'd also suggest looking at Pentax, Olympus and maybe Sony. Besides how they sit in your hand, you may find some brands fit your brain better. (For example, I find Canons really uncomfortable to use, but my Canon-loving friends always found my favourite Minoltas confusing. It's a personal preference, which is fine.)
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01/11/2008 12:31:47 AM · #9 |
| Besides canon, i think sony is also good |
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01/11/2008 01:28:20 AM · #10 |
Sarah
I can only add that you will be much happier if you invest in a mid range body ($700-800, 10-12 MP range) and invest the rest in two good lenses. Go to the store and try out a Nikon D80 or Nikon D40X (the X is 10 MP, not 6 like the older D40) and the equivalent Canon, a Canon 400D I believe (and other named bodies if you wish but be aware your lens choices will decrease). Once you choose the body that feels the best in your hands and seems intuitive to you then concentrate on a couple of lenses to get you started. Lenses are a whole new set of issues so come back here at that point and ask for pointers on choosing those for your shooting needs.
Want some detailed info on bodies? Ggo here and choose reviews:
DPReview
Message edited by author 2008-01-11 01:42:03. |
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01/11/2008 01:36:46 AM · #11 |
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01/14/2008 08:54:55 AM · #12 |
Thank you so much everyone!
jbsmithana - Thanks for your great advice, I ended up doing just that. Well haven't quite done it yet as I won't have the money until summer, but I have finally decided on a camera.
I did a bit more research, and decided to go look at some cameras. I'm definitely going with the Nikon d80. It felt right in my hands, pretty intuitive (especially considering I've never held a DSLR before) and felt quite a bit more solid than the rebel without the extra weight that the D200 had. While the d200 was built a bit more solidly, for my purposes and my handsize, I felt quite a bit more comfortable with the d80. Plus, this will allow me to buy a decent lens, rather than the $200 dollar ones they include in the kits. From what I've heard lurking around, it looks like the Nikon 18-200mm f/3.5-5.6 VR lens will suit me the best.
paddles: the salestaff did approach me this time. I glanced at their prices too, and unfortunately they were $150 and $100 over for the camera and lens respectively than what amazon and adorama have them priced at.
Thanks again! |
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01/14/2008 11:09:34 AM · #13 |
Originally posted by ChaosGirl:
paddles: the salestaff did approach me this time. I glanced at their prices too, and unfortunately they were $150 and $100 over for the camera and lens respectively than what amazon and adorama have them priced at. |
I will just point out...without [much] judgment, because I've done the brick-and-mortar lookie loo thing myself...that the reason their prices are higher is because they hired the sales staff that provided you the help, and stocked the inventory that let you come in and handle the different bodies that helped you make the decision. If the store you looked at is an independent camera store, I would seriously advocate that you consider purchasing from them and consider the extra money that you'll spend an investment in having a local, face-to-face photographic resource that (in my experience) will be much help to you down the road. Developing a relationship with a local, knowledgeable photo shop pays off in my experience, and is definitely worth the extra money.
If they are a large retail chain that doesn't care if their staff knows an f-stop from their @#$hole, and wouldn't recognize you as a repeat customer if you yelled your name out at the top of your lungs every time you walked in the store... then go ahead and screw 'em. ;)
p.s. - If you've already made up your mind, then cool, I'm sure you'll love whichever platform you sign on for. But if I was starting out and didn't have any previous lenses to match to a body, I would definitely look very hard at the Pentax. I borrowed one from a friend for a day a while back and was thoroughly impressed. Not giving up my Canons, but a great camera to consider. |
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01/14/2008 12:04:55 PM · #14 |
Originally posted by ChaosGirl:
...I did a bit more research, and decided to go look at some cameras. I'm definitely going with the Nikon D80. It felt right in my hands, pretty intuitive (especially considering I've never held a DSLR before) and felt quite a bit more solid than the rebel without the extra weight that the D200 had. While the D200 was built a bit more solidly, for my purposes and my handsize, I felt quite a bit more comfortable with the D80. Plus, this will allow me to buy a decent lens, rather than the $200 dollar ones they include in the kits. From what I've heard lurking around, it looks like the Nikon 18-200mm f/3.5-5.6 VR lens will suit me the best... |
Good choice and welcome to Nikon. If I can point out another option from one of you're earlier posts. The D40x, D200, and D80 all have the same 10.2MP sensor onboard. So your choice of body is great! The only reason I went with the cheaper D40x was $$$; but in your case you can handle the little more oomph.
Once you make up your mind, buy it and don't look back, because in a matter of minutes (figuratively speaking) there will be a newer, better, nicer camera body for a CHEAPER price! In a couple of years (when technology has improved!!), we can upgrade to the D2Xs or something; LOL!
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01/14/2008 12:11:39 PM · #15 |
Originally posted by ChaosGirl:
Originally I was looking at the Canon Rebel either 300D or 350D, but due to Nikon's compatibility with a larger variety of lenses, I feel that Nikon might be the better way for me to go. However, Canon has not been completely ruled out.
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I stopped reading just there and thought that you might be getting good advice anyway, but as far as i know the canon EF lineup of lenses is larger than the nikon one AND all the major third party lens manufacturers (as far as i know) produce for both mount systems... so whoever told you that is wrong... unless someone can show me the opposite and show me that i am completely wrong? :-S |
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01/14/2008 12:45:15 PM · #16 |
| If your hands are small the Canon Rebel XTI might be worth a look. It's less rugged than the 40D but the body is smaller. |
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01/14/2008 12:54:49 PM · #17 |
Congrats on the d80! I copied my brother and got a d80 and the 18-200mm AF VR lens this summer--an amazing camera, and the only "features" you might "miss" are those you hear about on the 4000 dollar bodies: dual memory cards, etc. Since those cameras are out of my league just now, anyway, I figure those features will become standard on lower priced models in a few years, and I can upgrade then. I do also recommend the 18-200 lens: very good, and limited lens changing required in the field (limited dust collection events!)
BTW: I also just got a Canon g9 as my "pocket" camera, and it is pretty sweet, too. |
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01/14/2008 01:13:53 PM · #18 |
Forget about the body... Figure out what type of lenses you need an pick that system - personally I would stick with one of the big two but I know there are sometimes reasons for the others. Look at the prices of those lenses also. The have a look at the bodies... remember that the bodies will be stale in a couple of years anyway (this ain't film stuff) but the lenses should remain for the next body.
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01/14/2008 01:17:52 PM · #19 |
Originally posted by ChaosGirl:
the salestaff did approach me this time. I glanced at their prices too, and unfortunately they were $150 and $100 over for the camera and lens respectively than what amazon and adorama have them priced at.
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When I buy larger priced items I always ask if it's their best price, and nearly always they'll come down a bit. The worst that can happen is that they say "no".
Note that I'm not suggesting you ask for $500 off or anything like that, but I bet they could match the amazon or adorama prices.
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01/14/2008 01:39:13 PM · #20 |
Originally posted by mad_brewer:
When I buy larger priced items I always ask if it's their best price, and nearly always they'll come down a bit. The worst that can happen is that they say "no". |
I would want them to say "no" if I asked that question, wouldn't you? That would be the best that could happen!
Message edited by author 2008-01-14 14:48:36.
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01/14/2008 02:27:42 PM · #21 |
Originally posted by AperturePriority:
Originally posted by mad_brewer:
When I buy larger priced items I always ask if it's their best price, and nearly always they'll come down a bit. The worst that can happen is that they say "no". |
I would want them to say "no" if I asked that question, wouldn't you? That would be the best that could happen! |
Yeah, that's what I meant! |
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01/14/2008 02:50:00 PM · #22 |
Originally posted by mad_brewer:
Originally posted by AperturePriority:
Originally posted by mad_brewer:
When I buy larger priced items I always ask if it's their best price, and nearly always they'll come down a bit. The worst that can happen is that they say "no". |
I would want them to say "no" if I asked that question, wouldn't you? That would be the best that could happen! |
Yeah, that's what I meant! |
I figured as much! :-)
Back on topic...I got the impression from the very first message from the OP that she already had her mind made up to go with Nikon.
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