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12/14/2007 09:16:54 AM · #26 |
I didn't prove your point at all. First off, the shots were taken with a 50 1.8 which is a very sharp and fast lens. Not one of those live music shots could be taken with a kit lens. As you know, the camera doesn't really dictate quality.
As a wedding photographer, I can assure you that the kit lens in low light will leave you with nothing but underexposed blurry shots no matter how creative or seasoned you are. WHen I go to a wedding I go with a 10-22, 35 1.4L, 24-70 2.8L, 70-200 2.8L and the 85 1.2L. Why? Because its the right tool to get the best results. These lenses allow for quality shots in all conditions. It doesn't make me any less creative to have the proper gear, it makes me prepared and gives me chances others don't get which all results in happy customers.
I do still shoot with an XT, but thats because I put my focus on acquiring quality lenses first. Its winter time now and weddings are slowing down, but Im booking them for next season. Once two more get under deposit I will have enough to upgrade to the 5D.
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12/14/2007 12:05:11 PM · #27 |
Nothing wrong with the kit lens other than it's S L O W for weddings.
My last wedding was Nov 24 in a church at 4:30-5:15...it got dark, so the only light was the interior church lights (no aid from the sun in other words). A guest might get away with flash (depends on the church and pastor) but a pro is usually told no flash during the ceremony.
ISO 3200, F2.8 and 1/20 second. Yeah, it's dark in there. Kit lens? Try and zoom in a bit and you're at 5.6...1/5 second at 3200...got 3200? If not, then what, 1/4 second at 1600? People move (sway, breath, talk, turn and look, wring their hands) faster than that. Faster than 1/20 - even when standing "still" at the altar.
Flash...the built in is good for maybe 15 to 20 feet - about 4 or 5 pews. Diffuse it with the ping pong ball? Sure, but you'll lose a stop of light...cuts the effective range to 7 to 10 feet.
As to why pros have fast lenses - a couple of reasons and snobbery has nothing to do with it. You are getting paid. Screw up or miss a photo and see how long you have to listen to the client whine, bitch, moan and complain. Want to keep working, get WOM and referrals? Then you can't screw up - EVER. There is no second chance at a wedding, and there is no second chance to deliver the image that was missed. Good gear reduces the odds of missing an image. It also allows all those marginal images to be keepers and look really nice.
Creativity is a great thing. Better gear expands what is possible. This allows even more creativity.
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12/14/2007 01:14:53 PM · #28 |
Well said Prof. I get pretty tired of people thinking they can do it all with the cheap stuff and ridiculing those who have the "goods" as snobs.
I wish I could do all my weddings with a kit lens, I could think of many ways to spend the thousands that are sunk into lenses and other equipment.
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12/14/2007 03:49:48 PM · #29 |
I'm back.
I used the macro lens. Didn't have time to find a ping-pong or golf ball. My flash setup was fairly humorous, especially compared to the "pro" with his fancy flash thing.
The ceremony was lightning fast (10 minutes) and I tried to stay out of the pro's way; with the intention of getting some candids during the reception.
It turns out that I didn't have to worry about my equipment because so many other conditions came into play that it was nigh impossible to get a good shot. It started with 50 people (many of them quite large) being crammed into two small rooms. The cake cutting took place under a huge, low-hanging tiffany lampshade, which completely obscured the bride's head. When I knelt down to go for a garter shot, I was literally blockaded by people who apparently couldn't see me. Even when it was obvious that I was trying to take photographs people inserted themselves between me and the subject. Every passable shot I did manage to get showed the bride with either eyes closed, mouth pursed or OOF. I could go on, but it would need to be moved to the rant section!:P
The best shot I got was of the groom's daughter, who was quite pleased to pose.
Still, everything moved so fast that I didn't do well with focusing or exposure. I also had a heck of a time with a stationary lens. Thanks to everyone who offered advice. I'm definitely appreciative of having good equipment for these events.
I guess my wedding present will be a painted portrait of the couple. |
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12/14/2007 04:09:08 PM · #30 |
Yep, that's why I shoot so many shots at a wedding and throw out fully half or more.
Some brides/people are just blinkers. PS to the rescue moving eyes and heads.
drive mode is a saviour - IF you have fast lenses so you can use little if any flash as it can't keep up.
10 minutes...know your gear inside and out, be able to predict what lens and settings are needed before they're needed, be able to change any setting, lens, CF card, batteries, in the dark, while walking.
An 8 hour wedding day passes sooooo fast it's unreal.
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12/18/2007 03:33:28 PM · #31 |
Originally posted by Jmnuggy:
Well said Prof. I get pretty tired of people thinking they can do it all with the cheap stuff and ridiculing those who have the "goods" as snobs. |
No... what I cannot stand are the snobs that keep bashing the kit lens for every reason possible. Wake up dude... Not everyone can afford the "L" stuff. The fact that they are using the kit lens is already a major improvement over a P&S. As I learned photography, the kit lens was all I had for a year and pretty amazing shots came out of it. So stop arguing and go shoot some weddings. |
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12/18/2007 05:14:57 PM · #32 |
Originally posted by candlerain:
So stop arguing and go shoot some weddings. |
With the Kit lens? no chance.. unless the ceremony was on a sunny beach and the reception was in a fully lit operating theatre. |
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12/18/2007 05:24:54 PM · #33 |
Originally posted by Simms:
Originally posted by candlerain:
So stop arguing and go shoot some weddings. |
With the Kit lens? no chance.. unless the ceremony was on a sunny beach and the reception was in a fully lit operating theatre. |
now that could be an interesting wedding... you've got to wonder what would take a wedding from a sunny beach to an operating room...
beyond that agreed... if you're going to be doing a wedding rent some good equipment if you don't haave some |
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12/18/2007 05:37:44 PM · #34 |
No one said that the kit lens was garbage. It's not the best, no arguement there. What people are trying to say is that if you took the kit lens to a wedding and tried to shoot in dim light without a flash, all you'd get was blurry images or some noisy sharp images and mostly blurry and noisy images. While it's definitely possible to shoot a wedding with a kit lens and maybe get lucky, what happens if you end up in a dimly lit church that doesn't allow flash? What happens when you end up in a small, dim reception hall? If you had a wedding on the beach in the middle of the day, then the kit lens would work great. In dim light? You can forget about consistantly getting sharp, clean images.
Now I also agree that most people can't afford the fast L glass. I'm 22 and in college, I sure as hell can't afford very much L glass. But that's not all that's out there. The Tamron 28-75 SP is a fantastic constant f/2.8 lens that goes for a third of the cost of the Canon 24-70 f/2.8L. Sigma has a similar lens and so does Tokina. All costing much less than the Canon. Now you do sacrifice things like the USM focus drive and some (not much) sharpness, but you save $600+ on the cost of the lens. That's worth it to me...
When you shoot a wedding, you are doing this for someone...not yourself. If you mess it up, you'd probably be in a world of trouble because no one is going to redo their wedding just so they can get proper pictures. This is why proper equipment is required. Same thing with why you don't tow a 40ft boat with a geo metro, you need to have the right tools to get the job done right the first time and especially with a once in a lifetime (hopefully) thing like a wedding.
Don't take this the wrong way though. I'm personally not in a position to buy tons of expensive camera gear for a wedding, but I'm for sure not going to say yes to doing a wedding without the proper equipment. Which is partly the reason I've turned down 4 of them so far.
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