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12/09/2007 10:03:47 AM · #1 |
| I've noticed that one thing I always seem to have trouble with, is when photographing 2 or more people, I always have at least one of those people out of focus. How can I fix this problem? I have a Rebel XT with the kit lens. I have a photo shoot this morning with 2 people, and I want both of them to be in focus!!! HELP! |
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12/09/2007 10:09:17 AM · #2 |
"Depth of field"
You need a smaller aperture (Bigger Number), which unfortunately means you need more light. You can do this by:
1 - Upping your ISO
2 - Providing additional Lighting via a Flash/Strobe |
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12/09/2007 10:09:37 AM · #3 |
You need a deep enough depth of field to be sure everyone is in focus. Try AV mode & set camera to F5 or so...you'll need more light for smaller aperature (larger F#) and might even need higher ISO to get a good exposure. Do some test shots first to see how much light you'll need.
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12/09/2007 10:18:05 AM · #4 |
If the previous suggestions are not feasible due to low light issues, be fanatic about posing your subjects so they are the exact same distance from the camera. Won't work well for big groups, but certainly a good strategy for 2-3 subjects.
Here's one example from the recent group portrait challenge:
Message edited by author 2007-12-09 10:21:00. |
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12/09/2007 10:19:37 AM · #5 |
| Ok, great...thank you! I will definitely try that. One more question...the focus selector points...do I need to have the camera in a certain mode to use them? Which focus setting do I need to have on? The "one shot", AI Servo, or AI Focus? Also, when I try using the selectors, and they are all lit up, when I try to take the shot like that, it won't let me and just refocuses the shot using only one of the selector points. How do I keep it from doing this? |
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12/09/2007 10:47:07 AM · #6 |
manual focus.
f:8 on the kit lens should get you deep enough DOF for a portrait.
turn off all but the focus point you want to use. then you can focus, lock focus, and recompose the frame if needed.
Originally posted by bowronfam3:
Also, when I try using the selectors, and they are all lit up, when I try to take the shot like that, it won't let me and just refocuses the shot using only one of the selector points. How do I keep it from doing this? |
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12/09/2007 10:47:42 AM · #7 |
| When you have all of the points selected the camera chooses one or more points that fit within the depth of field chosen. Only if everything under each focus point is on the same focal plane will you get all points to light up when all points are chosen. |
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12/09/2007 11:09:57 AM · #8 |
One feature that I really liked about the Rebel and 20D's that I've had (which doesn't exist on my 5D or Mark III) was the A-DEP mode. A-DEP can be very useful for getting an entire scene into focus - whether talking about a landscape shot or a big family portrait.
What A-DEP does, that is different from the other program modes on your camera, is this: It gives the camera permission to adjust the aperture such that everything that falls on a Focus Point (FP) in the camera is in focus. In other words, you're giving the camera permission to adjust the "Depth of Field".
If everything that falls on an FP is close to the same plane, similar to the shot  ErikV posted in this thread, then the camera will pick a very small aperture. But if you've got several "rows" of people in a large group portrait, then it'll pick a smaller aperture to get all of them into focus.
The DOWNSIDE of all of this, of course, is that you need to keep an eye on the shutter speed. Because if the camera determines that a very small aperture is needed, you may find yourself shooting at a very low shutter speed.
I never actually used A-DEP mode to take my pictures. However, I quite often switched to A-DEP mode to find out what the camera thought was necessary to get the shot. Then I would dial in my own preferences and shoot in manual mode. The thing is, if A-DEP told me that the aperture needed was too small, then I would adjust the positions of the people to get the shot.
This practice (of checking A-DEP then switching to manual) had a secondary benefit of teaching me what a scene basically needed so that I can shoot the scene more by instinct today. And as I mentioned at the top, this is good for me because the Canon 5D and Mark III don't have this feature.
So try out A-DEP mode and get a feel for what a scene needs. I think you'll benefit greatly from it.
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12/09/2007 11:26:04 AM · #9 |
Originally posted by dwterry:
So try out A-DEP mode and get a feel for what a scene needs. I think you'll benefit greatly from it. |
A-DEP does not work with the flash, though.
Regarding selecting focus points, the camera needs to be in a "creative mode", i.e. "P", "Tv", or "Av" to be able to select which points to use. Try to avoid the "focus, recompose, shoot" if you're having trouble getting everything in focus. Instead, select a focus point that will allow you to not have to recompose. If your subjects are not moving, use the "one shot" AF mode. If they move, stop, move, stop, etc., use the AI Focus. With AI Focus, when a subject moves, the camera switches between one shot for stationary subjects and AI Servo to track moving subjects. AI Servo mode is for tracking constantly moving subjects. |
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12/09/2007 11:28:37 AM · #10 |
Just to re-emphasize: I'm not recommending SHOOTING in A-DEP mode.
I'm recommending switch to A-DEP mode long enough to let the camera automatically, and with minimal effort, determine what aperture is needed to get all of your subjects into focus.
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12/09/2007 11:33:12 AM · #11 |
Regarding DOF, be aware that, as a rule of thumb, whatever DOF you do have at a given aperture and focusing distance will be distributed 1/3 in front of and 2/3 behind the point of focus. In other words, if you have (in a given situation) 3 feet of DOF available, 1 foot of it is in front of the focal point and 2 feet of it are behind the focal point.
Be also aware that at any given aperture, the closer you focus, the less is your DOF, and the longer the focal length of the lens, the less is your DOF. What does this mean? It means that if you stand at a given spot and shoot a full-body portrait, you will have more DOF available than if you zoom in from that spot and shoot a head shot, and it means that if you move in closer to shoot the head shot with the same focal length as the full body shot, you will have correspondingly less DOF to work with.
When shooting portraits, be they of one person or a group, where you are posing your subjects and then composing the picture, there's really no excuse NOT to turn autofocus off and focus manually. By doing this you can carefully select your plane of focus to reflect the 1/3-2/3 rule above, and your results will be consistently better. Especially if you use a tripod.
The lock focus/recompose method does not work very well if you are working reasonably close to your subjects, especially with wider-angle lenses and very especially if the you are shooting close to wide open, with relatively shallow DOF. Reason? The distance from the camera to the edge of your image is quite a bit different from the distance from the camera to the center of your image: so if you pan the camera to get an off-center subject locked on focus in the center of the image, then recompose to move that subject off center, it is now at a different distance from the camera than it was when you focused on it. This is particularly noticeable with macro shots, btw. In any case, that's why choosing your AF point is preferable, assuming you must use AF at all.
I rarely do, except when I am shooting spontaneously, on the fly.
R.
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12/09/2007 11:40:08 AM · #12 |
Originally posted by dwterry:
Just to re-emphasize: I'm not recommending SHOOTING in A-DEP mode. |
Not meant as a hijack, but as a continuation of learning.
Why not, exactly? I understand that at your level of expertise, full manual is a better choice, and under certain situations, I am learning its vast benefits as well, but in fast-paced or rapidly changing situations, does it really hurt? Why go through the "hassle" of switching to manual mode if you'll potentially be using the exact same settings? I understand using A-DEP to get a starting point, then tweaking from there in manual, or are you making your recommendations to force an examination of the camera's settings? Honestly curious here. |
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12/09/2007 12:05:31 PM · #13 |
Originally posted by twilson944:
Originally posted by dwterry:
Just to re-emphasize: I'm not recommending SHOOTING in A-DEP mode. |
Not meant as a hijack, but as a continuation of learning.
Why not, exactly? I understand that at your level of expertise, full manual is a better choice, and under certain situations, I am learning its vast benefits as well, but in fast-paced or rapidly changing situations, does it really hurt? Why go through the "hassle" of switching to manual mode if you'll potentially be using the exact same settings? I understand using A-DEP to get a starting point, then tweaking from there in manual, or are you making your recommendations to force an examination of the camera's settings? Honestly curious here. |
A-depth, he is saying, is dangerous because it may force a too-slow shutter speed, basically. But he finds it useful as a way of examining the actual DOF required by the scene, so you can then make intelligent decisions.
Really, all the serious photographers I have known (and seen working) use manual focus in static situations, and reserve autofocus for fluid situations where you may lose the shot if you take the extra time to MF.
R.
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12/09/2007 01:11:30 PM · #14 |
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
Originally posted by twilson944:
Originally posted by dwterry:
Just to re-emphasize: I'm not recommending SHOOTING in A-DEP mode. |
Not meant as a hijack, but as a continuation of learning.
Why not, exactly? I understand that at your level of expertise, full manual is a better choice, and under certain situations, I am learning its vast benefits as well, but in fast-paced or rapidly changing situations, does it really hurt? Why go through the "hassle" of switching to manual mode if you'll potentially be using the exact same settings? I understand using A-DEP to get a starting point, then tweaking from there in manual, or are you making your recommendations to force an examination of the camera's settings? Honestly curious here. |
A-depth, he is saying, is dangerous because it may force a too-slow shutter speed, basically. But he finds it useful as a way of examining the actual DOF required by the scene, so you can then make intelligent decisions.
Really, all the serious photographers I have known (and seen working) use manual focus in static situations, and reserve autofocus for fluid situations where you may lose the shot if you take the extra time to MF.
R. |
Shooting in Av mode also runs the risk of forcing a too-slow shutter speed. I agree with utilizing the camera's features to make general exposure evaluations, then tweaking in manual if the situation warrants. No arguments there. Just curious why not leave in A-DEP if the shutter speed is acceptable, or if you can change the ISO to make it acceptable? Why switch if it will work? I'm also not condoning always making the camera think for you. Why spend the money on a DSLR if you never take any control, but that's a whole other discussion.
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12/09/2007 02:10:10 PM · #15 |
Check this link out. Its a simulation for DOF. It will give you a perspective of what DOF is about.
Also, to gain experience for yourself, line up about 10-20 playing cards, each about 2 inches apart. Adjust your camera settings so you can see what the effects are.
Take all the advice you were given here...and experiment, experiment, experiment.
Message edited by author 2007-12-09 14:10:46. |
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12/09/2007 02:56:41 PM · #16 |
Originally posted by twilson944:
Shooting in Av mode also runs the risk of forcing a too-slow shutter speed. I agree with utilizing the camera's features to make general exposure evaluations, then tweaking in manual if the situation warrants. No arguments there. Just curious why not leave in A-DEP if the shutter speed is acceptable, or if you can change the ISO to make it acceptable? Why switch if it will work? I'm also not condoning always making the camera think for you. Why spend the money on a DSLR if you never take any control, but that's a whole other discussion. |
This is certainly true, but at least when you SELECT an aperture and lock it in you have these variables in mind. In A-depth, the camera is changing both aperture and shutter speed willy-nilly, and it's hard to keep track of the variables.
Incidentally, A-depth is MUCH more of a viable option if you are working with a tripod...
R.
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12/09/2007 03:13:32 PM · #17 |
When asked to explain DOF, I use the fact that I wear glasses. My reading glasses give a great display of DOF close up, showing foreground and background out of focus. My normal glasses, used for all other purposes than closeup, show a greater DOF. If that makes sense?
When using a tripod, I will select 'programme mode' to see what shutter speed the camera suggests, and also adjust the f stop until I think I will get the best result. Then, I switch to manual and using manual focus, use the previous info to take the shot. However, as said before, with Macro, you need to get the DOF right for the subject. You can adjust the f stops up or down so as to bracket your shots. After a while, you will know which f stop gives the best DOF for your subject.
I find bracketing really useful, and being digital photography, doesn't cost me anything:)
Message edited by author 2007-12-09 15:13:56. |
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12/10/2007 09:28:03 AM · #18 |
Oh my goodness!!!! Thank you so much to everyone! I am happy to report that because I absorbed all of this wonderful information yesterday...I came away from my photo shoot with every single shot in focus!!! Yay! Not just one, but BOTH....yes, BOTH sets of eyes in perfect focus! LOL! :P Thank you so much to everyone...you have no idea how much I appreciate it!
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12/10/2007 11:28:29 AM · #19 |
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12/10/2007 11:34:39 AM · #20 |
Originally posted by bowronfam3:
Oh my goodness!!!! Thank you so much to everyone! I am happy to report that because I absorbed all of this wonderful information yesterday...I came away from my photo shoot with every single shot in focus!!! Yay! Not just one, but BOTH....yes, BOTH sets of eyes in perfect focus! LOL! :P Thank you so much to everyone...you have no idea how much I appreciate it! |
Congratulations on your transition! You just became a better photographer!
This thread illustrates, as well as anything I have seen in DPC does, how very important it is to study the fundamentals of the craft; of any craft, actually...
R.
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12/10/2007 12:37:24 PM · #21 |
Originally posted by bowronfam3:
One more question...do I need to have the camera in a certain mode to use them? Which focus setting do I need to have on? The "one shot", AI Servo, or AI Focus? Also, when I try using the selectors, and they are all lit up, when I try to take the shot like that, it won't let me and just refocuses the shot using only one of the selector points. How do I keep it from doing this? |
I don't think this has been answered. Let help my tring ot explain this.
OneShot = When you focus, it tries to focus at that moment. Works best if the subject isn't moving.
AI Servo = When you are focusing, the camera will continue to focus on the subject. This is great when you have a moving subject. The focus will try to move with the subject.
AI Focus = Camera tries to tell which mode to be in. If the subject is still, it uses "OneShot" mode, if it figures out the subject is moving, it uses "AI Servo" mode. I'm not certain how it does this, so I usually choose myself.
With second question, it sounds like it's trying to lock a focus and it can't, so I doesn't allow you to take the picture. There's a few things you can do for this.
1. Get more light on your subject so the camera can figure out a good focus.
2. Get a flash on your camera. The flash has a shoots out a red beam it shoots out to help focus.
3. Seperate the focus and shutter button. I don't know if your rebel can do this, but it might have custom function to make the AutoFocus happen on another button. This way, you can seperate out the shutter firing from the auto focus. Then you can do a few other tricks to get a good focus. Try zone focusing.
I hope this helps. |
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12/10/2007 02:07:34 PM · #22 |
Here's 2 from the photo shoot yesterday.
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12/10/2007 02:56:31 PM · #23 |
Here's one more from yesterday...this one is my personal favorite!!
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12/10/2007 04:32:48 PM · #24 |
Ummm.... turn down the softening, please. Or at least, mask out the eyes and other facial features. The ladies like their skin soft ... but not plastic. And they still need to be able to see. It doesn't do any good to get perfect focus on their eyes if you blur them out in photoshop.
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12/10/2007 05:00:14 PM · #25 |
| Yeah I was going to say, somewhere under all that blur I'm sure the focus is spot on lol. |
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