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11/29/2007 11:56:22 PM · #26 |
Originally posted by I Enjoy Ham:
a sick nasty portfolio |
Way to encourage him to strive for quality, huh!
hahaha...
I thought about enlisting and trying to get into a combat photographer position when I turned 18, in fact I'm still kind of considering it in the back of my mind, but I haven't decided if the compromises I'd have to make are acceptable considering the benefits. Both to myself and to others. It would be a drastic change from my current lifestyle, and while I think it would help me (anyone) grow up and have a more rounded knowledge of the world, it is inherently dangerous. Shotgun bullets (or AK47 as the case might be) are bad for your health.
Journalistic integrity would also be a concern of mine if I was working for the government - their employees will report what they're told to report, true or otherwise. Military and law enforcement sometimes manage to manipulate the media for their own purposes, but their own people? Any government has many agendas, and telling the complete truth to its people is rarely one of the primary ones.
I also feel that, as an 18 year old who's spent all but the first 10 months of my life in the United States, with no firsthand experience of other cultures or knowledge of history and politics to speak of, I'm just not qualified to shoot important documentary work or even everyday conflicts yet. A journalist has to understand what he/she is reporting and understand the consequences of reporting it incorrectly.
Maybe my idea of the military staff photographers is all wrong, maybe there's no inherent journalistic responsibility. Maybe they're just there to document on CF card (doesn't film just fit so much better into a sentence like that?) what goes on and add to the archives. But combat is serious shit, and randomly snapping away without knowing why it's going on seems irresponsible and dangerous to records of history. I doubt inexperienced enlistees would work in that capacity very often.
If you want to cover that stuff in the long run, maybe diving in head first and trying your hand at the real thing as soon as possible is the ticket. Are you planning on going to school for photojournalism and then working in the field, or just doing the combat photog thing for the hell of it?
Personally, I do eventually want to be at the point where I'm qualified to cover overseas conflicts and significant events (for an privately owned publication with a good reputation and high standards, I might add,) but it's going to be a long ride. And there's really no destination.
For now I'm sticking with sports photography, primarily. It's not of earth shattering importance compared to revolutions in countries stuck in poverty and plagues, the development of a new world superpower, etc, but there's action, emotion, and it's important enough to some publications. Who knows, I might settle down and have a family that I'm not willing to give up by going across the world and dodging bullets just to document something 'important.'
Maybe the stories about the increasingly 'superhuman' breed of athletes dominating professional sports teams are important enough. |
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11/30/2007 12:41:29 AM · #27 |
This is a highly inaccurate statement.
There are programs that you can use when you join the military to go straight to college. for instance, it can be very difficult to get an appointment to a service academy. However if you meet the requirements you can slide in under a military appointment to attend the academy. I believe that 50 seats are reserved each year for enlisted Airmen to apply to the AF Academy. While the competiotion may be tough, most people in the military do not apply for these positions.
There are also other programs that one can use. The Airman Education and Commissioning Program is one of them. If you have the pre-requisite courses you can be discharged from Active Duty, placed into reserve status, promoted to E-5 if you are not already at that or past that rank and attend school until you finish your degree.
In addition to all of this, we have been cutting personnel left nad right. I have had Airment that work for me that spend 6 months at my base before getting out to work in the civilian sector.
Bottom line, unless you know all of the programs that are available to people, don't comment.
Originally posted by OmanOtter:
Originally posted by rbryan22:
I would not go into the military only for the reasons you are stating. I know the college money and training is attractive but I know too many kids who have gotten in without a full understanding of the decision they were making, thinking they were going straight to college after training, and went straight to the Middle East.
I have a friend who is a photojournalist in the Navy. He has told me of many occasions when he had to go out into the field and was under fire. |
It boggles my mind how anyone who joins the military could think s/he was going straight to college after training. They know damn well that they have to serve out a full enlistment. |
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11/30/2007 12:54:57 AM · #28 |
Originally posted by MadMan2k:
Originally posted by I Enjoy Ham:
a sick nasty portfolio |
Way to encourage him to strive for quality, huh!
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In the 80's bad was good, so now is sick nasty good or bad?
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12/01/2007 12:49:20 AM · #29 |
Originally posted by fotomann_forever:
Originally posted by MadMan2k:
Originally posted by I Enjoy Ham:
a sick nasty portfolio |
Way to encourage him to strive for quality, huh!
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In the 80's bad was good, so now is sick nasty good or bad? |
obviously you guys aint up on the current lingo yo. Best be catching up dogs.
Peez |
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12/01/2007 01:39:14 AM · #30 |
| Dude, I have friends over there and trust me you don't wanna go over there. And if you don't wanna be shot at I bet you'd have a hard time dealing with the things you would photograph. This was before your time and the site is shut down now because of the photos but there was a website called "nowthats****edup.com" I saw some of the photos that were on there of iraqi's missing their heads or with just part of their head left. It was bad. I too considered joining about a hundred times still kinda am and I, like you, was considering a combat photographer position. The chances of getting it though are very slim. I know of a guy who signed a contract for a certain job but then the recruiter ripped it up and he got shipped out as infantry. |
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12/01/2007 05:10:22 AM · #31 |
i actually signed up to be a combat photographer when i enlisted. i tried to keep my color blindness under the radar but when you sign up you have to take a color perception test and i failed that misserably.
that being said i had to change my job at the last minute because they had a policy that stated the photojournalism field in the military is limited to people who have correct color vision.
personally. im kind of glad i didnt get it, because i work next to the combat photogs and they dont really like it. and ive gone and shot with thema few times and its a good experience but its just like any job youve ever done. by that i mean you have a higherup thats most likely a dick. and after doing a few assignments that are boring and you see all the stupid rules you have to abide by, you will find its not exactly what you had envisioned it to be. but. thats just my experience.
there is a lot of rules when it comes to photographic military stuff. because essentially when you take a picture for the service, its thiers and you dont really have a right to claim it as your own until proper clearance by the proper authorities. i couldnt even print any photos ive taken here till i went through the proper chain and sometimes that could take weeks. and if you work at a lower command you have to send it through the higher commands for them to approve it, and that could take weeks. plus you have to send the original files to them and then you run the risk of some one working there stealing your image and calling it their own. never trust someone with your original files (except DPC SC). its happend before....
anyway yeah, its up to you. military isnt for everyone. and deffinantly if you have a strong passion for it, look at some other form of pursuing it because me being in has only gotten in the way of getting done what i want to accomplish. And no not everyone comes over here (Middle East), theres a good chance and usually youll get asked to go at some point, i did, i said yes. but i dont know, its different for everyone.
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12/01/2007 06:09:59 AM · #32 |
 Fetor, Good post.
When I was in the Air Force I was a Firefighter. As a side job on my time off I was the night manager at a One Hour Photo place. We printed most of the photo's that the Air Force took. The photo's didn't bother me too much, but I was about the only person that could print them without getting sick. Being a military photographer you get the chance to see the underbelly of society and the aftermath to their sickness.
Sure, there are good times too (like any job), but are you seriously ready to see what you may see?
Also, being an Air Force photographer, you probably won't be spending a lot of time in the air photographing awesome arial shots. You'll be on the ground most of the time taking pictures for official functions, crime scene's, PR stuff.
Make sure you know what you want and are able to do before you take the leap. When I was 18 I NEVER wanted to join the military. It wasn't until after I turned 22; specifically for training in the Fire department. |
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12/01/2007 06:32:16 AM · #33 |
I was talking about the military, not the Air Force.
Nothing you said does anything to reduce my skepticism about someone's claim that they joined thinking they were going straight to college and were then diverted to active duty service instead. In fact, I'm not even certain you addressed the issue at all. Your points all seem to indicate the opposite by, e.g., pointing out ways for active duty personnel to go to the Academy, ways for an Airman to leave active duty and attend college and ways to get out of the Air Force.
Originally posted by BHuseman:
This is a highly inaccurate statement.
There are programs that you can use when you join the military to go straight to college. for instance, it can be very difficult to get an appointment to a service academy. However if you meet the requirements you can slide in under a military appointment to attend the academy. I believe that 50 seats are reserved each year for enlisted Airmen to apply to the AF Academy. While the competiotion may be tough, most people in the military do not apply for these positions.
There are also other programs that one can use. The Airman Education and Commissioning Program is one of them. If you have the pre-requisite courses you can be discharged from Active Duty, placed into reserve status, promoted to E-5 if you are not already at that or past that rank and attend school until you finish your degree.
In addition to all of this, we have been cutting personnel left nad right. I have had Airment that work for me that spend 6 months at my base before getting out to work in the civilian sector.
Bottom line, unless you know all of the programs that are available to people, don't comment.
Originally posted by OmanOtter:
Originally posted by rbryan22:
I would not go into the military only for the reasons you are stating. I know the college money and training is attractive but I know too many kids who have gotten in without a full understanding of the decision they were making, thinking they were going straight to college after training, and went straight to the Middle East.
I have a friend who is a photojournalist in the Navy. He has told me of many occasions when he had to go out into the field and was under fire. |
It boggles my mind how anyone who joins the military could think s/he was going straight to college after training. They know damn well that they have to serve out a full enlistment. |
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Message edited by author 2007-12-01 07:01:47. |
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12/01/2007 09:07:25 AM · #34 |
Originally posted by OmanOtter:
I was talking about the military, not the Air Force.
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Does this mean you are saying that the Air Force is not the military?
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12/01/2007 10:45:40 AM · #35 |
Heh! Some might argue that point.... (and I'm Air Force...) :-)
As an aside, I got to watch the Army/Navy game in person! Actually there were two games - the Navy officers beat the Army officers 7-6, then the Army enlisted beat the Navy enlisted quite handily. It was all quite fun! Also learned that I cannot for the life of me get the 70-200 to focus on stuff like that. Even tried the servo mode thing, but failed miserably. (Flag football, by the way.)
Message edited by author 2007-12-01 10:48:14. |
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12/01/2007 11:04:37 AM · #36 |
Originally posted by Melethia:
Heh! Some might argue that point.... (and I'm Air Force...) :-)
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I would add that the difference between the Air Force and the Boy Scouts is that the Boy Scouts has adult leadership and supervision, but I don't want to offend you!
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12/01/2007 11:32:03 AM · #37 |
Originally posted by BHuseman:
Originally posted by Melethia:
Heh! Some might argue that point.... (and I'm Air Force...) :-)
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I would add that the difference between the Air Force and the Boy Scouts is that the Boy Scouts has adult leadership and supervision, but I don't want to offend you! |
I would say the main difference between the two is the amount of LEGAL alcohol consumed. *grin* |
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12/01/2007 01:33:38 PM · #38 |
Originally posted by BHuseman:
Originally posted by OmanOtter:
I was talking about the military, not the Air Force.
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Does this mean you are saying that the Air Force is not the military? |
Yes, that's what I was saying. It's a joke - one that teases the Air Force for being the most civilian of the services. I figured you had it coming after your "Bottom line" comment. No actual disrespect was intended towards anyone's service in the Air Force, though. A friend of mine once remarked that Airmen are ok to have around when you can't find a good Coastie! Besides, what would young Marines on Oky do if there were no female Airmen at Kadena?!
Message edited by author 2007-12-01 13:52:49. |
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12/01/2007 02:01:05 PM · #39 |
| Well let me say that if you want to go into photography while in the military, its the best job to have. I was a Navy combat photographer back in the late 80's and early 90's. While I did my share of grip and grins I also got to shoot some amazing stuff. I was an aerial, flight deck, snoopy team (more on this later), special mission photog. I worked with EOD, Marine expeditionary, SEALS, foriegn services and lots of VIPS. I'm sure its pretty much the same in any service. You will also get a first rate education into how labs work. I'm sure now its nothing more than a digital darkroom but if you are lucky they will also teach you traditional darkroom. I'm also going to tell you that you should have a pretty good stomach for the job. I can't tell you how many dead I shot or the many different conditions the bodies were in but its important to know that you would be expected to photograph that stuff. However the really good thing is that everybody wants pictures, and will barter for 8x10's. Trust me on this, when everybody else was eating crap I had lobster from the Admrials kitchen. Good stuff. To catch up on the snoopy team. That is what the intel photogs are called. You get to shoot all kinds of top secret stuff, that is if you are given the clearance. All in all I had a great time while in the navy. My only regret was being to young to see the opportunities for shooting right in front of me. I will see if I can scan some old photos and upload them. Good luck. |
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12/01/2007 02:17:21 PM · #40 |
Ok so here are some shots from 92 or 93.
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12/01/2007 02:48:52 PM · #41 |
| I would just like to reply to the original poster that if you are even thinking of being a photojournalist you need to be able to spell correctly and string together a proper sentence. Neither of those traits are displayed in your posts, so that would be the first thing to work on. A photojournalist with good photos and bad writing skills isn't worth much. |
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12/01/2007 03:02:21 PM · #42 |
Most of this thread seems to have been centered on Combat Photography. Keep in mind that not all military photographers are assigned to a Combat Photography assignment.
Most units (large scale) have a Public Affiars office. The people in PA often take photos. Most services also have personnel in Communications that take photographs as well.
I know the Air FOrce has PA, Combat Photography, and Photographers in the Communications Squadron. I do beleive most of the photographers in Comm are being phased out though.
I have a taken a lot of photos for our PA office here on Osan. When I have a photo they can use I kick it up to them and they are good about getting it either on their site, or in print (when we had a base newspaper).
Here is one of the pictures I kicked up to PA:
Photo That photo also made it on the Pacific Air Forces Homepage
My point is, you don't have to be an officila photographer for the military to take pictures for them. I go out all of the time and take pictures. I have been standing in front of F-16's getting ready to launch with crew-chiefs performing pre-flight checks. If you get to know the people in PA you can get access to a lot of places to take photos.
Some of my aircraft photos can be seen here. To get this close to the planes we requested access and received it. I use these photos for slideshows that we put together for squadron parties, and base ceremonies.
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12/02/2007 12:18:22 AM · #43 |
Heh - yeah, we do get teased a bit. But in my tour here I've been working almost entirely with Army folks. The differences between the two services are very interesting to me. Army folks do a much better job of taking care of each other - very much a team thing (no Army of One at all, really). The Air Force, corporately, has better digs, no question. The Air Force has better bases, facilities, and even housing downrange. And while there is comraderie, I don't see it at the same level I see in the Army, probably because we ARE highly civilianized - a lot of what used to be done by blue suiters is now done by civilians. Not that any of this has to do with photography, mind you... just observations.
If I could get a job as a combat photog, I'd take it. Most of the PA photogs I've known are civilian these days in the Air Force. And yes, PA will take shots from anybody. I was seen with a camera at our Halloween trick or treating one year (the kids come in and go from office to office) and was handed a card with an email address to which to send pictures. |
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