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11/22/2007 07:42:47 PM · #251 |
Read somewhre (can't find it now) that there would VERY LIKELY need to be APPROXIMATELY 10 nuclear plants built in the US to MAYBE bring down the LIKELY temperature rise of 1 degree per decade to AROUND 0.8.
But building nuke plants would never fly with environmentalists, who, MORE THAN LIKELY want to lower CO2 emissions
Message edited by author 2007-11-22 19:44:04.
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11/22/2007 08:13:35 PM · #252 |
Originally posted by dacrazyrn:
Read somewhre (can't find it now) that there would VERY LIKELY need to be APPROXIMATELY 10 nuclear plants built in the US to MAYBE bring down the LIKELY temperature rise of 1 degree per decade to AROUND 0.8.
But building nuke plants would never fly with environmentalists, who, MORE THAN LIKELY want to lower CO2 emissions |
That post was more than likely sorta funny. The real takehome is that scientists are comfortable with uncertainty, the general public is not.
Message edited by author 2007-11-22 20:14:08. |
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11/22/2007 08:40:05 PM · #253 |
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
In my view, unfortunately, there is only one carrot and one stick the American public responds to. They are one in the same...money. Taxes are the stick and incentives/profit is the carrot. My skepticism comes from thinking we can change public sentiment through methods that don't involve one or both. That's just my opinion though. |
People love to follow the herd and nothing drives that herd more than the people we idolize yet those are the ones who choose to be the most wasteful. If you want to fix the problem wave the carrot in front of those who can change their ways and the rest will follow.
Message edited by author 2007-11-22 20:41:04. |
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11/22/2007 09:31:07 PM · #254 |
Originally posted by yanko:
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
In my view, unfortunately, there is only one carrot and one stick the American public responds to. They are one in the same...money. Taxes are the stick and incentives/profit is the carrot. My skepticism comes from thinking we can change public sentiment through methods that don't involve one or both. That's just my opinion though. |
People love to follow the herd and nothing drives that herd more than the people we idolize yet those are the ones who choose to be the most wasteful. If you want to fix the problem wave the carrot in front of those who can change their ways and the rest will follow. |
Dude! DiCaprio drives a Prius! |
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11/22/2007 10:30:32 PM · #255 |
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
Originally posted by yanko:
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
In my view, unfortunately, there is only one carrot and one stick the American public responds to. They are one in the same...money. Taxes are the stick and incentives/profit is the carrot. My skepticism comes from thinking we can change public sentiment through methods that don't involve one or both. That's just my opinion though. |
People love to follow the herd and nothing drives that herd more than the people we idolize yet those are the ones who choose to be the most wasteful. If you want to fix the problem wave the carrot in front of those who can change their ways and the rest will follow. |
Dude! DiCaprio drives a Prius! |
Ha! Window dressing! :P Seriously though, if the problem is as dire as it's made to be we would be putting caps on all energy consumption across the board. Do we really need all the pomp and circumstance before each and every event? Do we need all the parades we have? Do we need all these big budget movies? Come to think of it do we need Michael Bay at all? Seems to me once you remove the 100 explosions in his movies there's nothing left. :P |
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11/22/2007 10:42:24 PM · #256 |
Jeez, I go eat turkey for 3 days and you guys are still arguing about this stuff???
Achoo and the Promoters will always dis yer data, and the Deniers will always find some esoteric, bovine scatological
blog or National Geo. article to aggravate them. This is about as stimulating as a booger picking contest! Mother Earth will decide this debate.
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11/22/2007 11:04:03 PM · #257 |
Originally posted by fir3bird:
Jeez, I go eat turkey for 3 days and you guys are still arguing about this stuff???
Achoo and the Promoters will always dis yer data, and the Deniers will always find some esoteric, bovine scatological
blog or National Geo. article to aggravate them. This is about as stimulating as a booger picking contest! Mother Earth will decide this debate. |
Ah, Mother Earth... I suspect that if she has sentience, she's probably rooting for us to screw it up and scourge ourselves off her face. She's hoping for a breather, so to speak :-) Good riddance to bad rubbish, would be her attitude. And who could blame her?
R.
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11/23/2007 12:29:04 AM · #258 |
Heard an interesting radio program tonight on the subject of evolution in response to climate change -- MP3 file available at the above link.
Abstract:
Climate change has always acted as an evolutionary force on the planet.
Some researchers even believe that adaptation to pre-historic climate
change may have lead to the success of human beings as a species.
So what's different about the changes happening now? |
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11/23/2007 02:20:22 AM · #259 |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Abstract:
Climate change has always acted as an evolutionary force on the planet.
Some researchers even believe that adaptation to pre-historic climate
change may have lead to the success of human beings as a species.
So what's different about the changes happening now? |
Perhaps (and very probably) humans may be successful in adapting this time around too, but humans are not the only consideration on the planet. I wonder how much more impoverished the place will be for the frivolous disregard of our shared home. |
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11/23/2007 02:36:31 AM · #260 |
| Hey, I just noticed in the quoted passage that they have a typo at their website -- that should read "... may have led to the success ..." |
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11/23/2007 08:30:19 AM · #261 |
Now we've really messed things up!!!
//www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/main.jhtml?xml=/earth/2007/11/21/scicosmos121.xml&CMP=ILC-mostviewedbox
I'm sure some people really believe this too.
BTW: I'ts freezing here today. Please send some of that warming here.
Message edited by author 2007-11-23 08:30:44. |
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11/23/2007 10:22:10 AM · #262 |
Originally posted by fir3bird:
Mother Earth will decide this debate. |
I never said we'll be able to stop Climate Change. I just want to make sure you guys know I was right that it was coming when Alaska replaces California as the most populous state in the Union, Canada has a major problem with illegal immigration from the US and I'm the richest man in the world because of all the property I bought that is at 23 feet above sea level NOW.
;) ;) ;)
Disclaimer: I have exaggerated the melting effect on sea level rise for comedic purposes. I'm not espousing that we'll see that much sea-level rise in our lifetimes :p |
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11/23/2007 10:30:53 AM · #263 |
Is November 21st April Fool's day in the UK???
That sounds a lot like the feaux "theory" that if you're going somehwere, you never actually actually get there. Because, to get there, you have to go half the way there. And then halfway, and then halfway and you always a halfway point between you and your destination. So, you never actually arrive. |
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11/23/2007 10:43:59 AM · #264 |
is it getting warm in here?
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11/23/2007 12:21:13 PM · #265 |
Does anyone rember how/why/when the issue changed from "Global Warming" to "Climate Change"? Or know why the change in terms was found to be necessary?
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11/23/2007 12:36:23 PM · #266 |
Originally posted by RonB:
Does anyone rember how/why/when the issue changed from "Global Warming" to "Climate Change"? Or know why the change in terms was found to be necessary? |
I use Climate Change because it's possible that not EVERY place on the planet is going to be warmer as a result. Some places may simply get a lot more rain because of the warmer temperature of the oceans and the increased moisture in the air. Also, I've seen theories that the massive amounts of fresh water that Greenland will dump into the Atlantic may lead to changes in the Gulfstream, which helps keep Europe warm.
Anyone remember that old margarine commercial from the 70s, "It's not nice to fool with Mother Nature!" Seems VERY appropriate these days ;)
From what I've read though, I think it's way too early to speculate about any "chain reaction" events. |
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11/23/2007 12:54:19 PM · #267 |
Originally posted by chip_k:
That sounds a lot like the feaux "theory" that if you're going somehwere, you never actually actually get there. Because, to get there, you have to go half the way there. And then halfway, and then halfway and you always a halfway point between you and your destination. So, you never actually arrive. |
For what it's worth, that is one of "Zeno's Paradoxes", specifically "Achilles and the Tortoise". They are actually very interesting.
//plato.stanford.edu/entries/paradox-zeno/
Fascinating excerpt that has some relevance to this discussion:
"As we read the arguments it is crucial to keep this method in mind. They are always directed towards a more-or-less specific target: the views of some person or school. We must bear in mind that the arguments are ad hominem, not in the ‘bad sense’ that they attack a person rather than his views but in the ‘good sense’ that they are formulated against a particular philosopher's assertions. They work by temporarily supposing ‘for argument's sake’ that those assertions are true, and then arguing that if they are then absurd consequences follow — that nothing moves for example: they are ‘reductio ad absurdum’ arguments. Then, if the argument is logically valid, and the conclusion genuinely unacceptable, the assertions must be false after all. Thus when we look at Zeno's arguments we must ask two related questions: whom or what position is Zeno attacking, and what exactly is assumed for argument's sake? If we find that Zeno makes hidden assumptions beyond what the position under attack commits one to, then the absurd conclusion can be avoided by denying one of the hidden assumptions, while maintaining the position. Indeed commentators at least since Aristotle have responded to Zeno in this way.
R.
Message edited by author 2007-11-23 12:57:24.
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11/23/2007 01:08:05 PM · #268 |
Originally posted by Imagineer:
Perhaps (and very probably) humans may be successful in adapting this time around too, but humans are not the only consideration on the planet. I wonder how much more impoverished the place will be for the frivolous disregard of our shared home. |
You know, it struck me when you used the word human. We seem to know a lot about what happened to this planet in the past through paleontology and other sciences.
What if we only know part of what happened? I suspect that is the fact of the matter. How could we know all? So, what if..... dinosaurs grew in numbers to the point of influencing their environment? They grew to such large numbers that their carbon pollution caused Earth's systems to reach a tripping point that caused a massive climate change, that caused them to die off and become extinct? And were it not for this theoretical catastrophic change in climate, a small obscure warm blooded species of animal might not have evolved to the arrogant species that thinks it rules the world today. So if the Promoters in this thread and elsewhere in the *REAL* world can't convince the Deniers to join them and make massive changes in their lifestyles, perhaps some other small, obscure, could we even say meek, species will inherit this rock.
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11/23/2007 01:13:23 PM · #269 |
Originally posted by chip_k:
Disclaimer: I have exaggerated the melting effect on sea level rise for comedic purposes. I'm not espousing that we'll see that much sea-level rise in our lifetimes :p |
Just make sure that your disclaimer doesn't get removed from you post. Much like the disclaimer that was removed from Al Gore's An Inconvenient Truth. :) :) :)
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11/23/2007 01:15:47 PM · #270 |
Originally posted by RonB:
Does anyone rember how/why/when the issue changed from "Global Warming" to "Climate Change"? Or know why the change in terms was found to be necessary? |
I suspect that many people got sick and tired of hearing the phrase. It seemed to be the hobgoblin of every single problem encountered by the human race. It no longer had any power to attract positive attention so a new buzz word was needed. JMHO.
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11/23/2007 03:02:41 PM · #271 |
Originally posted by fir3bird:
So if the Promoters in this thread and elsewhere in the *REAL* world can't convince the Deniers to join them and make massive changes in their lifestyles, perhaps some other small, obscure, could we even say meek, species will inherit this rock. |
There was a "vote" that I saw on MSNBC today that said that roughly 2/3 are worried about the Greenland glacier melt and about a quarter aren't worried at all. Of course that's not a scientific study either. Just the people that happened to read the story and decided to vote.
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11/23/2007 06:32:45 PM · #272 |
And you should remember which way the majority of MSNBC's viewers MOST LKELY lean.
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11/23/2007 06:40:43 PM · #273 |
Yesterday's temps. I had the AC pumping in my car all afternoon. It was sunny.
2PM- 64F
6PM - 56F
8Pm - 31F
My theory is that the elite of the world have a weapon that is very top secret. It's a weather control device. Possibly reverse engineered from Nikola Tesla's version in 1918. |
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11/23/2007 06:41:46 PM · #274 |
| The sun is alot stronger today, partially due to the magnetosphere of our planet being manipulated somehow. There is an increase in solar flare activity and this is why we see so many Aurora's now. |
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11/23/2007 09:00:55 PM · #275 |
And not too many years ago we were hearing the sun was burning it's self out and getting cooler.....seems logical to me. However, we may still be on the upward side of the bell curve.
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