Confessions from a Macintosh Conversion...

11/10/2007 11:58:25 AM · #1

I just received my Mac Pro. While I've had Mac's before (and Lisas), I've not used them much in the past 5 years (or more). So I thought it would be interesting (and hopefully useful to others) to use a thread to sort of "blog" my experience.

I purchased a Mac Pro Dual Xeon 2.66 GHz unit with the default 250GB drive, from Apple, Refurbished, with 1 GB memory. I have purchased additional memory (4GB) and additional drives (1.5 TB). But those aren't installed yet.

First things first, let's see how easy a Mac "really" is to get set up.

First, I gave it an hour to temperature acclimate

Then going for "broke", I powered up, trying to use my PC keyboard, and mouse, both PS/2 and through a Belkin Omnicube KVM 4 port along with an analog display. That was supposed to allow me to switch between my PCs and Mac. But since the PC keyboard and mouse are PS/2, I purchased a dual PS/2 to USB converter one of the online Mac vendors claimed worked with the Mac. It didn't (at least so far). Oddly, the monitor didn't work either, at least through the KVM (a keyboard, video, mouse switch).

Ok, back to a conservative startup strategy, I hooked up a LCD monitor, though both analog and digital, I did analog, since I want to go back to the KVM soon. I plugged in the apple keyboard and mouse.

Went through the introductory screens. Easy enough, though they did take 5 minutes or so. Then I took the intro to .Mac, and I was golden.

Or so I thought. First, buying the refurb, I got Tiger installed, and Leopard as a disc in the package. I was kind of hoping Leopard was installed. But ok, I can deal with that. But within seconds of getting to the Mac desktop, the computer already wanted to update itself. Ok, I let it. Might as well use an up-to-date tiger installation when I go to Leopard. About 15-20 minutes later, it was done. I needed to reboot.

So I did, expecting the Mac to be ready to use after the reboot. It wasn't. Now it wants to do a firmware update! Holy shades of PC disorder. One would think that would be part of the Apple preparations and test. Don't they advertise ready to use out of the box in a few minutes?

I haven't done it yet...firmware updates, on a new 65 lb piece of hardware scare me. At least on the PC world, you can end up with a dead PC. I've done it to lots of hardware, but as far as my PCs go, I usually read what's fixed and decide based on that whether it's worth the risk. Often firmware fixes don't affect you.

If it goes bad, having to pack this up and ship it back to Apple doesn't really appeal to me. But I will brave it, and try it in a minute anyway. And continue my blog. But while so far everything's been pretty quick and smooth, it's not a "grandma can do it" out of the box experience so far.

Canon EF-S 15-85mm f/3.5-5.6 IS USM

11/10/2007 12:02:37 PM · #2

The firmware update didn't exactly work as it said, but now I'm updated to version 1.2 of the "Mac Pro EFI Firmware update".

Hmmm, does that mean I got a really old motherboard in my Mac Pro? It is identified as Model Identifier: "MacPro1,1"

Message edited by author 2007-11-10 12:04:39.

LN13

Canon EOS-60D

11/10/2007 12:05:31 PM · #3

I'm with ya, Neil. Both of my daughters have MacBooks. I do Windows support for a living. The Macs sometimes have me stumped. I still haven't figured out how to print to a shared Windows printer.

And still haven't figured out why they sell anti-virus software if they don't get viruses.

RainMotorsports

Nikon D60

Nikon AF-S DX Zoom Nikkor 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6G VR

11/10/2007 12:23:09 PM · #4

Originally posted by larryslights:

No one ever (keep reading to the idiot part) claimed they dont get virus's unless their an idiot and i dont recall apple ever saying they didnt either. Ones that are a decent threat just arent common although i believe theyre having a bit of a problem with trojans in a porn video been reading on the news about it.

Message edited by author 2007-11-10 12:23:37.

11/10/2007 12:47:21 PM · #5

I'm not trying to start a Mac/PC debate, just documenting. I am not hiding my delight or disappointment though--otherwise it wouldn't be interesting.

I am looking forward to using the Mac, and hope it will indeed impress me with solid behavior and performance. I am pretty demanding of a computer, and I plan to try to move my Python development environment to the Mac. I say try because it depends on whether or not all my tools come over--for that I'm going to use Parallels Desktop. I am hoping to not have to switch my development editor from Codewright.

I decided that this thread is going to get bumped too often if I keep blogging here, so I started a blog over at Blogger, for anyone who is interested. The address is:

//diaryofamacconversion.blogspot.com/

I may still ask some questions here though of the experience Mac crowd. So hopefully, the thread won't be ignored. And I do hope the effort of documenting my "conversion" is interesting or useful to others who may be considering it (though I understand, as a software developer, I'm not a typical user converting.)

Hmm, that brings me to a big important question! Do you think I should stay on Tiger while trying Parallels? Is upgrading to Leopard after installing Parallels going to be more trouble than the other way around? I do think Parallels has some issues with Leopard, but I also want to know that this environment works well for me before purchasing it.

violinist123

Canon EOS-6D

Canon 12x IS USM (S3 IS built-in Lens) -- 36-432mm (35mm EQ)

11/10/2007 12:56:10 PM · #6

Originally posted by nshapiro:

For all practical purposes that thing is an intel board same as a pc. I wouldn't sweat firmware updates too much.

Interesting experience. I've been thinking about picking up a mac at some point.

GeneralE

Canon PowerShot S3 IS

11/10/2007 12:56:32 PM · #7

If you'd been willing to use the pre-installed OS you would have been able to use your Mac "out of the box." By ordering an older machine and immediately reconfiguring both hardware and software you are increasing the probability for problems with each step.

I'd fully upgrade the Mac OS before trying to configure Parallels ... otherwise you will have to troubleshoot all over again.

11/10/2007 12:56:56 PM · #8

Neil, did you purchase the extra RAM from Apple or from a 3rd party?

It's not unusual to get the Software update popping up immediately after starting up a new Mac. Apple stays very on top of things with updates and for a computer that's been in channels for awhile, numerous updates out of the box is pretty normal. I've never had an issues with firmware updates before, even on older macs. Depending on the age of your refurb, I'm a little surprised this wasn't done already, but should be no biggie.

I am now running Windows XP under parallels 3.0 on one of my intel macs with no issues whatsover, except being extra cautious about limiting internet access due to the numerous threats to windows machines. I did install spybot as a precaution on the Windows side.

To Rainman: you toss the "idiot" moniker around pretty easily. I run a full mac shop with four networked Macs in my home, all on broadband internet 24/7. I run Apple's firewall on all machines with no 3rd party virus protection. None of my Macs has ever been affected by any malicious outside attacks. No spyware, no malware, no virus, trojans or other scourges common on the Windows side. Now I know anecdotal reports aren't worth squat, but my experience is by far the norm with Mac users.

11/10/2007 12:58:23 PM · #9

Originally posted by nshapiro:

Hmm, that brings me to a big important question! Do you think I should stay on Tiger while trying Parallels?[/i] Is upgrading to Leopard after installing Parallels going to be more trouble than the other way around? I do think Parallels has some issues with Leopard, but I also want to know that this environment works well for me before purchasing it.

Leopard will require Parallels 3.0. Once upgraded parallels, XP installed and ran flawlessly under leopard.

zeuszen

Canon EOS-1Ds Mark II

11/10/2007 12:59:13 PM · #10

Originally posted by nshapiro:

...Do you think I should stay on Tiger while trying Parallels?[/i] Is upgrading to Leopard after installing Parallels going to be more trouble than the other way around? I do think Parallels has some issues with Leopard, but I also want to know that this environment works well for me before purchasing it.

I have no experience with Parallels, but... I prefer to wait with (the "big") OS upgrades until initial issues have been successfully addressed, with Apple usually after its second update...

11/10/2007 01:48:20 PM · #11

I'd install the RAM and HDs right away. The RAM will speed up your experience considerably, and you'll want the HDs to partition for Windows.

11/10/2007 01:48:58 PM · #12

John, I bought the RAM from OWS. I still haven't installed it. But it was about 1/3 of the price of buying it from Apple. I have Shannon (Scalvert) to thank for pointing me in the right direction.

OWC = Other World Computing

Quantity: 1 OWC53FB2MPK04GB, $229.99 each
4.0GB Mac Pro Memory Matched Set (2GB x 2) PC5300 DDR2 ECC 667MHz 240 Pin FB-DIMM Modules

I guess it's probably time to open the box and try the new memory!

11/10/2007 02:38:54 PM · #13

Ok, RAM and Hard Discs installed! I had a bit of trouble opening the case at first, but nothing like the troubles I've seen opening various discount PCs (mine are always "not discount" and since I usually pick by the case, they're built for ease of access). What got me on the Mac was that the instructions told me to hold the side, so it didn't fall when released.

I didn't realize:

1) it was much too snug to fall on it's own,
2) the door was on the other side from the usual PC position! (Well, that didn't take me too long to figure out. Just thought it was funny and worth mentioning.)

I was VERY IMPRESSED at the inside of the Mac Pro. Nice that I pulled out a daughtercard for the memory installation (though I still had to lay the Mac down to reinsert it). But most impressive was the four hard drive carriers, that result in a cable-less installation! BRAVO. Why don't PC case manufacturer's copy this (i.e., license it, if patented, as I presume). Very nice!

Mac came up and the two 750GB drives needed to be formatted.

QUICK QUESTIONS:

1) I presume I need to partition something for Windows 2000/XP installation via Parallels? What size do you recommend?

2) Does the Mac have a built in "flexible" partition manager (like PartitionMagic on the PC) so I can adjust partition sizes later without losing data?

3) I probably need a whole 750GB drive just for my pics. Any reason to make smaller partitions for the Mac data itself? In terms of efficiency? (I might still buy another 750GB drive for backups internally, and I have a couple of terabytes already of external drives too.)

4) What's going to happen regarding BootCamp when I install Leopard? I presume that's part of it. Do I need to save some space for it, just in case I'd want to boot Windows on this machine (not likely, since I have so many decent Windows machines around...)

Thanks for those who have already helped, and in advance for those who will!

11/10/2007 03:29:52 PM · #14

1) I'm not familiar with Parallels, so I don't know how the partitioning scheme works, nor do I know how much space you need for your Windows work.

2) Disk Utility (in Applications> Utilities) allows you to easily create multiple partitions and RAIDs. You cannot, however, change the partition size later without reformatting unless you use a 3rd party solution.

3) You might consider a separate partition for a Photoshop scratch disk, but it's not a big deal. Depending upon your particular needs, you might create a striped or mirrored RAID from a couple of drives.

4) Boot Camp and Parallels are two different animals. Parallels allows you to have Mac OS and Windows open at the same time, but Windows will run at a reduced speed. Boot Camp lets you start up as either a dedicated Mac or PC at full speed, but you must restart to switch between them. Boot Camp creates its own partition (without reformatting). There's also Crossover, which lets you run windows apps under Mac OS (without Windows installed), but your apps must be supported.

brownsm

Canon EOS-5D

11/10/2007 04:00:24 PM · #15

Neil,

I too am a Mac convert. I recently installed windows on the machine using boot camp. It's included with Leopard (just upgraded to that, too). With boot camp, you have to determine the partition size during the start of the process. If you want to change it (like I did), you have to go back, re-partition to a single Mac volume, then re-partition for the windows. I used 32 GB, which was all I really needed. Was very easy to do using boot camp; simply followed the instructions. And don't forget to use a USB mouse and keyboard (unlike me who tried to use the bluetooth mouse and kb I use for my mac). I had to borrow the neighbors usb mouse to finish the install!

Like Shannon stated, using boot camp you need to re-boot from scratch to move between OS's. Simply hold down the option key while booting, and it gives you the choice on which OS to boot. In boot camp control panel in windows make sure to select the mac os as the default if you want to boot that way without holding down the option key.

I have an external 500GB drive that Time Machine (on leopard) uses as a backup. Very useful indeed. creates an incremental backup every hour, and I can go back in time to select files or the entire disk image to retrieve. all without intervention. I had struggled for ever trying to get that drive to work using the supplied third party software. Leopard made it as simple as clicking one button during set-up.

BTW, I'm also running 3GB of RAM in my 24" iMac, the most it will hold. I also got my memory from OWC. cost me about $140 for the 3GB set (micron OEM replacement memory).

11/10/2007 05:02:17 PM · #16

You need to decide up front whether you're going to use Bootcamp or Parallels. I can't advise you since I've only used Parallels. For Parallels, you don't need to partition. When you set up Parallels for the Windows install (called, creating a virtual machine), you tell it how much disk space you want to set aside. It uses its own virtual partition so there's no need at all to physically partition the disk. I believe you can even change the size of the Windows virtual machine disk later if you want to.

Since, as you've noted, you already have a very serviceable windows machine at hand, I'd probably opt for the Parallels method if I were you. As Shannon said, you can run windows inside a Mac window under the Mac OS, and you can easily expand it to full screen so it looks and behaves just like a windows box. Parallels also has a mode that combines the two desktops (forget the name, but it's very weird). I prefer to keep windows "in a window" myself.

As for the general question of whether to partition the disk or not, I've never done it. I used to but over the years, have not seen the need to do so.

Originally posted by nshapiro:

QUICK QUESTIONS:

1) I presume I need to partition something for Windows 2000/XP installation via Parallels? What size do you recommend?

2) Does the Mac have a built in "flexible" partition manager (like PartitionMagic on the PC) so I can adjust partition sizes later without losing data?

3) I probably need a whole 750GB drive just for my pics. Any reason to make smaller partitions for the Mac data itself? In terms of efficiency? (I might still buy another 750GB drive for backups internally, and I have a couple of terabytes already of external drives too.)

4) What's going to happen regarding BootCamp when I install Leopard? I presume that's part of it. Do I need to save some space for it, just in case I'd want to boot Windows on this machine (not likely, since I have so many decent Windows machines around...)

Thanks for those who have already helped, and in advance for those who will!

11/10/2007 06:26:50 PM · #17

An update. So far, so good!

I went ahead with the Leopard upgrade. It took quite a while, but it was dinnertime anyway. I'd say about 45 minutes in all. It was, of course, quite irritating that after the long install process, you want to jump in an try it, but the first thing it did after rebooting is to download a software upgrade, and demand a reboot/install for that.

Of course, I want the software to be "correct" and "work", but Leopards not very old, and so it just adds to the current feeling that people ship unfinished software now BECAUSE it's so easy to do updates over the web. But it's not that convienient for users, and it's definitely not as nice of an "out-of-box" experience. (Ok, a little soapbox from my 26 years of industry experience.)

But so far so good. I started to play with Crossover under Tiger. I tried two installs: Quicken 2006 (which it had in it's compatibility list), and Ecco (which it didn't)

The quicken install was a bit of a disaster. It seemed to install, did the virtual reboot thing, and then presented me with a Cross-over installation dialog. But I just watched the whole installation and reboot, so what's that all about. I was sure it was installed, so I closed that, but never could find an installation on the disc. Not impressed.

But then I installed Ecco, a really old, pre-microsoft outlook PIM that's really well written and has withstood the test of time (it's run on windows since Windows 95, when the stopped producing it fearing competing with Microsoft). I still depend on it. And it didn't let me down. Crossover installed it, and it appears to work fine.

I think Crossover is just a bit confusing, at least at first. But now I'm going to give it a try on Leopard with a few more apps.

New Question: I don't like to mix data and programs. Can I "move" the special folders with user data in them on the Mac like I can on the PC? Do I just do an ordinary Move and Mac will be ok with that? Or do I have to do it their way?

Also: I hate not having a normal Home and End key to move to the beginning and end of a line. I see a workaround here:

//evansweb.info/articles/2005/03/24/mac-os-x-and-home-end-keys

But it's old. Anyone know of hand if the default keybindings file he points to is still "relevant" to the Mac?

Message edited by author 2007-11-10 18:35:25.

11/10/2007 07:27:21 PM · #18

Originally posted by nshapiro:

Anyone know of hand if the default keybindings file he points to is still "relevant" to the Mac?

Go to the Help menu in the Finder and search for "shortcut". You should find lots of good stuff in there.

11/11/2007 02:56:27 PM · #19

Originally posted by nshapiro:

New Question: I don't like to mix data and programs. Can I "move" the special folders with user data in them on the Mac like I can on the PC? Do I just do an ordinary Move and Mac will be ok with that? Or do I have to do it their way?

In general, it's better to let the default location for data stand unless the app gives you a way to specify location. That said, can you give a specific example?

11/11/2007 09:14:25 PM · #20

Originally posted by strangeghost:

Originally posted by nshapiro:

New Question: I don't like to mix data and programs. Can I "move" the special folders with user data in them on the Mac like I can on the PC? Do I just do an ordinary Move and Mac will be ok with that? Or do I have to do it their way?

In general, it's better to let the default location for data stand unless the app gives you a way to specify location. That said, can you give a specific example?

Yes. On the PC, lots of apps seem to want to use "My Documents" as the default; My Documents is one of those special folders, like My Pictures, ... In Windows XP, and Vista, it's possible to move those to another drive, rather than where windows puts them, on Drive C. That helps enforce program/data separation.

On the Mac, there's a Users folder, on, you guessed it, the system drive. Lightroom, for example, has already placed the database there without even asking me, and in fact, files it's imported are going there by default too. Yes, I am pretty sure I can change Lightroom's behavior (at least you can on the PC), but it's just an example.

What I want to do is move Users to my second hard drive. That way, I have data and programs separate, which is better for both performance and backup strategies.

BTW: Lightroom is significantly faster on my Mac. I don't know if that's a Mac improvement, or if it's because I have 5GB memory here, and 2 GB on my PC. Both are about the same speed, and both have two processors, but the Mac processors are a newer generation of Xeon.

But on the down side, after an hour or so of use, Lightroom just HANG. I had to kill it. I guess some things never change, whatever OS you are using :(

Message edited by author 2007-11-11 21:15:08.

11/27/2007 01:40:12 PM · #21

Help!--how do you get a Mac to shut down without resetting it (bad for the file system) when the OS doesn't seem to be able to "force" quit on hanging apps. And one of those hanging apps is Terminal, and the other is the System Status monitor (or whatever it's called).

Some of the apps closed fine (like mail), and finder is working, but I can't log off or shut down because it just says terminal won't respond to the forced quit.

I hate to do a system reset. This is the second time this has happened already. What happened to those marketing claims of a Macintosh being more reliable than a PC?

violinist123

Canon EOS-6D

11/27/2007 01:54:56 PM · #22

Well supposedly it is BSD under the hood, so if you can get to a shell do

ps -ax | more

jot down the name of the offending apps, then

ps -ax | grep firefox

where firefox is name or portion of name of offending app

note the pid of the app, then

kill -TERM pid (eg, kill -TERM 11347)

if that doesn't do it then 'kill -KILL pid' that will nuke it

violinist123

Canon EOS-6D

11/27/2007 01:55:52 PM · #23

can also try doing 'shutdown -r now' from a shell, that should kill everything and bounce the box.

Art Roflmao

Canon EOS-6D Mark II

11/27/2007 01:58:52 PM · #24

Originally posted by routerguy666:

... that should kill everything and bounce the box.

I would just manually bounce the box.

-Art
Mac hater, Vista hater, all around ill-tempered computer professional