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11/05/2007 02:53:26 AM · #1526 |
Originally posted by JuliBoc:
Originally posted by Melethia:
... a snapshot. What the lens sees in a particular instant in time, one which shall not be exactly repeated again. |
This explains it quite well. So photojournalism and street photography would primarily be snapshots? And how about sports photography? |
Hi Julianne,
I'm not sure whether my earlier "I submitted a snapshot to a free study" comment was part of what prompted you to ask this, but in my comment part of what I was reflecting was the appearance of a decided lack of focus on the technical elements of photography. For me, street photographers go out looking for good subjects, keeping their equipment ready, searching, checking settings for circumstances, and trying hard to focus on composition even on spur of the moment. This is my mindset when I shoot on the street. Something really neat, interesting, intriguing might happen right in front of me, but I would see it through my lens because I'm trying to include it in my art.
When I take a snapshot, I'm caught up in the experience of whatever I'm . . . um, well, hmmm . . . experiencing :) If something interesting or exciting were to happen, I would see it with my eyes, unobstructed by anything other than my own perceptions and biases (and my glasses, else it would be really fuzzy). If I take a shot, it's quick, I'm thinking (as Deb said) about preserving a moment for memory's sake, not making art. I might not check ISO, or camera mode, and I might even use my on-camera flash to make sure that it's captured in some viewable form. In the end, what I get is interesting to me and my family, but perhaps not so much to others. When I see it, I relive that moment in time, but there's something in it that can be missing from a technical perspective and I wouldn't care.
So, I'm with Deb (as usual) on this; I take a lot of snapshots (I have a two-year-old; 'nuff said), and I like them, too. I would probably like to see Deb's snapshots (she's better at it than I am), but primarily because I know her.
For my shot in the free-study, I tried through processing to convey a different sense with what was a "missed" street shot (I didn't get the composition right and there were really distracting elements in it). If the subject had some relationship to me other than having been found on the street, it would be a snapshot that I liked. But that's all there was, and in processing it, I exacerbated the photographic issues rather than solving them because I was too focused on trying to convey something from the image that the image didn't support. That, to me, made it look like my conception of a snapshot.
So, in the end, for me, good sports photography, street photography, photo journalism aren't really snapshots, because there's a lot of thought that goes into getting ready, because the photographer's presence is dictated by capturing the image, and because there is some level of artistic intent in pressing the shutter release. For a snapshot, the photographer is there to witness the event, not capture it. A person in the stands -- even with a "good" camera -- at a sporting event might very well be taking snapshots, but a serious amateur who misses it when one team scores because he or she is testing the lighting conditions would be doing something different (I don't want to say doing more . . . just different).
Not sure that makes any sense in the end . . .
RobH
Message edited by author 2007-11-05 02:54:57.
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11/05/2007 05:58:05 AM · #1527 |
| Speaking of snapshots (and really, I rarely take anything else), there are more from Afghanistan here. Enjoy! |
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11/05/2007 06:29:26 AM · #1528 |
great work, deb, interesting reading, everyone.
we had an interesting day yesterday. tropical storm noel hit on saturday evening, the lights went out at 8pm. no problem, we sat by the fire, read, and went to bed early.
yesterday morning, i had just finished getting food for the sprog, when someone knocked on the door. the wife of the marina owner, saying 'your boats on the hard, come now'. so we did. we couldn't understand how she had come lose from the dock, until we got there. she didn't, the whole floating dock arrangement had come loose, and floated down the harbour. sadly, our boat took the brunt of it and grounded on someone's garden; the other two boats were further back and stayed afloat. we had some help from other boat owners (oddly,t he marina owner just disappeared...), and, just before high tide in the afternoon, she came free with the help of the engine, the anchor on a winch in the stern, a line to a tree on the shore, and some pushing and pulling from a few of us. there seems to be very little damage, just a scrape in the antifouling. i'm going to check after dropping the kid at school, but i think we were very lucky indeed!
not many pics, as i have error 99 issues at the moment...
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11/05/2007 08:05:23 AM · #1529 |
| Booo on the err99 issues... yay on the getting boat back! I'd imagine that was quite the sight for those that may have seen it, with the whole dock and her charges wandering away. |
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11/05/2007 08:27:54 AM · #1530 |
Originally posted by kashi:
That is a wonderfully emotive photo, snapshot or not.
But - what's wrong with being a soccer mom ?? |
Originally posted by Melethia:
Heh! Not a darn thing - just trying to pick an average category of people who take pictures. Perhaps "average Joe" would have been a better analogy. We got any Joes here?? :-) |
Use the phrase "Cheer Mom" then, 'cause at my daughter's cheer gym and at the competitions, they all think that my images are all but the Second Coming of the Prophet! LOL!!!
Message edited by author 2007-11-05 08:28:33.
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11/05/2007 08:36:45 AM · #1531 |
Deb, or anyone else for that matter... if you have time could you critique this shot for me. I love this picture and really thought it was dpc friendly. Give me your thoughts. Thanks!!!
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11/05/2007 08:37:22 AM · #1532 |
Originally posted by Melethia:
... a snapshot. What the lens sees in a particular instant in time, one which shall not be exactly repeated again. |
Originally posted by JuliBoc:
This explains it quite well. So photojournalism and street photography would primarily be snapshots? And how about sports photography? |
I think that the word snapshot is given a bad rap here on DPC.......I too often see it used inb a derogatory context and I think that's wrong.
To me, a snapshot is the quintessential candid, the one-in-a-million shot that you got simply because you were in the right place at the right time with your camera.....how on any level is this a bad thing?
I know I'm more likely to take a snapshot than to "preserve an image for posterity". LOL!!!!
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11/05/2007 08:43:54 AM · #1533 |
Originally posted by Kelli:
Deb, or anyone else for that matter... if you have time could you critique this shot for me. I love this picture and really thought it was dpc friendly. Give me your thoughts. Thanks!!!
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IMNSHO, it doesn't pass the three second glance.
It's good, but there's no real WOW factor......it's subtle and humorous, therefore by definition, TS friendly and NOT DPC friendly.
Just my $0.02 US.....YMMV!
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11/05/2007 08:58:08 AM · #1534 |
Originally posted by rheverly:
I'm not sure whether my earlier "I submitted a snapshot to a free study" comment was part of what prompted you to ask this, but in my comment part of what I was reflecting was the appearance of a decided lack of focus on the technical elements of photography. For me, street photographers go out looking for good subjects, keeping their equipment ready, searching, checking settings for circumstances, and trying hard to focus on composition even on spur of the moment. This is my mindset when I shoot on the street. Something really neat, interesting, intriguing might happen right in front of me, but I would see it through my lens because I'm trying to include it in my art. |
Even if you do have focus on the technical aspects, I find that some snapshots are created because of the lack of technical correctness, but taken anyway due to the "This way or no way" situations that occur every day....at least it seems that way to me! LOL!!!
Originally posted by rheverly:
When I take a snapshot, I'm caught up in the experience of whatever I'm . . . um, well, hmmm . . . experiencing :) If something interesting or exciting were to happen, I would see it with my eyes, unobstructed by anything other than my own perceptions and biases (and my glasses, else it would be really fuzzy). If I take a shot, it's quick, I'm thinking (as Deb said) about preserving a moment for memory's sake, not making art. I might not check ISO, or camera mode, and I might even use my on-camera flash to make sure that it's captured in some viewable form. In the end, what I get is interesting to me and my family, but perhaps not so much to others. When I see it, I relive that moment in time, but there's something in it that can be missing from a technical perspective and I wouldn't care. |
Exactly! And a lot of snapshots are terrific images in their own right because of their flaws, or in spite of them......often they add to them, and thoigh it's unintentional from the initial push of the shutter button, it doesn't make any less a great image.
Originally posted by rheverly:
So, I'm with Deb (as usual) on this; I take a lot of snapshots (I have a two-year-old; 'nuff said), and I like them, too. I would probably like to see Deb's snapshots (she's better at it than I am), but primarily because I know her.
For my shot in the free-study, I tried through processing to convey a different sense with what was a "missed" street shot (I didn't get the composition right and there were really distracting elements in it). If the subject had some relationship to me other than having been found on the street, it would be a snapshot that I liked. But that's all there was, and in processing it, I exacerbated the photographic issues rather than solving them because I was too focused on trying to convey something from the image that the image didn't support. That, to me, made it look like my conception of a snapshot. |
That hearkens back to the subject rather than the image being the.....pardon me....focus. There are all to often situations in my photography where I can't control the circumstances of the image. I shoot anyway.
Originally posted by rheverly:
So, in the end, for me, good sports photography, street photography, photo journalism aren't really snapshots, because there's a lot of thought that goes into getting ready, because the photographer's presence is dictated by capturing the image, and because there is some level of artistic intent in pressing the shutter release. For a snapshot, the photographer is there to witness the event, not capture it. A person in the stands -- even with a "good" camera -- at a sporting event might very well be taking snapshots, but a serious amateur who misses it when one team scores because he or she is testing the lighting conditions would be doing something different (I don't want to say doing more . . . just different).
Not sure that makes any sense in the end. |
Oh yeah! Makes tons of sense to me and makes me feel better about the constant angst I live with because I think that magic should come from my camera more than the once-in-a-blue-moon that it does. LOL!!!
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11/05/2007 10:13:22 AM · #1535 |
Originally posted by Kelli:
Deb, or anyone else for that matter... if you have time could you critique this shot for me. I love this picture and really thought it was dpc friendly. Give me your thoughts. Thanks!!!
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Thank you all for your kind, wonderful comments. I really was in love with this image, and I will make the changes suggested before I make a print.
And thank you Rob for the in depth analyse! You really do "see" very well. |
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11/05/2007 10:52:19 AM · #1536 |
Rob, thanks for the thoughtful explanation of your concept of a snapshot. One key thing I took from this is:
Originally posted by rheverly:
... (I didn't get the composition right and there were really distracting elements in it) ... |
I think the lack of attention to the background or distracting elements, and the often centered subject are quite typical of snapshots. Little by little I am sorting out in my mind the differences between snapshots and what I might think of as "fine photography". (As in home cooking v.s. fine dining. They are both good in their own right.)
Message edited by author 2007-11-05 10:52:54. |
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11/05/2007 11:26:50 AM · #1537 |
On another subject, I thought you might be interested to read the explanation of why the SC voted to DQ my Beginning of the End shot. I didn't understand exactly how I broke the rule on including existing photographs. Here's what they said:
Your background shot appears to be an as-captured scene. It does have a "current" element in it, but we felt that the majority of voters would think the background was physically present and captured at the same time. In other words, it approaches "taking a photo of a photo" and thus circumventing the date rules.
We know that's not what you intended, but do be careful when using a photo as background, that the voters aren't voting on the background instead of your subject.
I think the closing paragraph is a good thing to keep in mind. |
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11/05/2007 01:18:54 PM · #1538 |
Well, my free study is sucking along at 5.43, with an image that I thought had 6.0 potential. On the bright side I have received 3 very nice comments and 1 fav.
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11/05/2007 02:42:32 PM · #1539 |
Originally posted by basssman7:
Well, my free study is sucking along at 5.43, with an image that I thought had 6.0 potential. On the bright side I have received 3 very nice comments and 1 fav. |
Hey, getting a fave beats a crappy score any day! Esp on a Monday! |
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11/05/2007 02:45:05 PM · #1540 |
Originally posted by snaffles:
Hey, getting a fave beats a crappy score any day! Esp on a Monday! |
That is very true. and I think the fave is from one of our fellow TS'rs, so that is a bonus. |
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11/05/2007 05:39:49 PM · #1541 |
Originally posted by JuliBoc:
Rob, thanks for the thoughtful explanation of your concept of a snapshot. One key thing I took from this is:
Originally posted by rheverly:
... (I didn't get the composition right and there were really distracting elements in it) ... |
I think the lack of attention to the background or distracting elements, and the often centered subject are quite typical of snapshots. Little by little I am sorting out in my mind the differences between snapshots and what I might think of as "fine photography". (As in home cooking v.s. fine dining. They are both good in their own right.) |
I agree.
I'm learning to be more attentive to detail as to composition, but sometimes the situation doesn't permit the opportunity to say, "Freeze! And move three feet to the right!"
So this one is pretty decent, and I had some control over these two hamming it up: [thumb]609286[/thumb]
Whereas this one I had to "snap" as she was standing still and I'd really have rather had her over three feet to get rid of that damn scoreboard behind her:
[thumb]609300[/thumb]
But does this shot convey attitude???? Could I have gotten this cat-that-ate-the-canary look on cue?
So, yeah......it's not a terrific shot on technicals, but Mom *LOVES* that I caught this.
Maybe I could have stepped to the side some, who knows now.....this has been a heck of a learning curve doing this more action-related shooting instead of just the impromptu stills.
I am at least cognizant of the mistakes even if I don't have the hang of it yet......8>)
I'm getting better at it.
BTW, I'd like to give a giant virtual rasberry to Catherine who told me two months ago to quit bellyaching and get out there and SHOOT, SHOOT, SHOOT, if I want to get better. It's working, dammit!!!!
Message edited by author 2007-11-05 17:43:01.
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11/05/2007 09:25:38 PM · #1542 |
Jeb, with a paint brush, the clone tool, and a LOT of patience, you can get rid of that scoreboard if you wish. But it's an element that would be present in that situation so it's not really "distracting" - it's just part of the environment.
As for snapshots - as I said, that's mostly what I take. I point, I shoot, be it with the SLR or the P&S. I do, however, try to take into account background, light angles, reflections, etc, as much as possible when I do point and shoot. My picture of the camel and her owner, for instance, required me to get on my knees because the background was so cluttered. It's still not "clean" but it at least isolates the subjects better. So while I still take snapshots, I think I (and the rest of us here) take better snapshots than the person who only takes out their camera a couple times a year. |
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11/05/2007 09:26:30 PM · #1543 |
| okay I'm in for popcorn, expecting low scores as taking ideas out of my head and putting them into a photo is my my hardest challenge. |
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11/05/2007 11:13:21 PM · #1544 |
| Well, rats. I was kinda looking forward to "boring" and spending the bulk of my time after here in Afghanistan back in my pod in Kuwait. Found out today that isn't going to happen. It's back to Iraq for me for the duration. Ah well. Food is good, hopefully I'll get decent accomodations (still waiting to hear on that - could be a sleeping bag on the floor of the office for a bit - damn gender issues). Back to the place where the trucks run all day and night and things go boom. But nice scenery! :-) |
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11/05/2007 11:37:20 PM · #1545 |
i know i haven't been here in a while...
kind of been busy with my website...
and i got fired and arrested ( long two weeks, just dont ask )
anyways, i put up a new website for this photographer who's been shooting for over twelve years in the scene and im being all proud and happy.
check it out
www.larrywolfley.com
let me know what you think.
i may have one for free study. i got hit by a stage diver shooting last night and i think i have something i can use.
love you all.
chris.
Message edited by author 2007-11-05 23:37:40. |
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11/06/2007 12:00:55 AM · #1546 |
| Hi Chris, glad you're back in action. I think that website is exciting -- nice job. |
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11/06/2007 12:03:39 AM · #1547 |
| Definitely an odd two weeks, I'd have to say. Did you at least get pictures of your arrest? :-) Seriously, try to stay out of jail and do keep in touch when you can. Nice to have you around now and then! |
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11/06/2007 12:08:08 AM · #1548 |
can you use html in posts to post pictures?
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11/06/2007 12:57:47 AM · #1549 |
Originally posted by sickdog:
can you use html in posts to post pictures? |
I think posting full sized pictures is a wee bit frowned upon, as the whole site starts getting a bit slow to open. html for links to pictures elsewhere, or thumbnails for the same are ok, I'm thinking (you could send a polite note to SC and ask)
Great to see you back. Hit by a stage diver? |
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11/06/2007 01:04:00 AM · #1550 |
Hey Jeb, first of all, I am glad to hear that you are out there shooting like crazy, it is the best way to learn. I did a couple minutes editing on your photo and it is definately not that difficult to get rid of the scoreboard. [thumb]609468[/thumb] If you shoot me the original through an email I will do it for you and turn on the "detailed history" so you can then see exactly what I did.
Ernie
ETA that this is just a quick fix, if you want me to look at the original I will take some time to make sure it is perfect for you. :)
Originally posted by NikonJeb:
Whereas this one I had to "snap" as she was standing still and I'd really have rather had her over three feet to get rid of that damn scoreboard behind her:
[thumb]609300[/thumb]
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Message edited by author 2007-11-06 01:05:56.
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