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10/31/2007 05:21:14 PM · #1 |
This is an idea I've had, but it would require the voting mechanism to be redone entirely. Instead of assigning 1 - 10 to each photo, a user could be presented with two photos side by side and simply asked to pick a better one. I don't know if that would work, but i know that i have a hard time figuring out what score a photo deserves, and most of my votes end up with a "5".
I've seen websites do that before, i just can't remember which ones. |
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10/31/2007 06:42:34 PM · #2 |
Before everyone comes out of the woodwork to throw rotten bananas at you for even suggesting that the voting be changed, or directs you to one of the numerous other threads discussing the topic of voting, I'd just like to say that this is a good idea that could go a long way towards solving some of the voting "issues" that always seem to crop up.
Now I'm going back to my corner to hide, so I don't slip on all those banana peels comin your way. |
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10/31/2007 07:06:44 PM · #3 |
Just what is it that we would be doing? Judging the image based on merit, or simply identifying personal preferences.
Not trying to be negative relative to this idea, just wondering aloud as to what exactly we are trying to determine.
I personally see a myriad of very well executed images that, if placed next to some other perhaps not so well done photo, could very well lose out as my preferences relative to the subject matter might win the upper hand during the selection process.
At present, I view each image on an independant basis and normally more than once, subsequent to which I ascribe a value relative to a variety of factors that come into play.
I don't see how I could effectively do that with your proposal, and as such I don't believe I would support your proposal at this juncture.
Ray |
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10/31/2007 07:08:52 PM · #4 |
how would the rating work at the end of the process to determine a winner, or 2nd or 3rd?
Does this mean that 100% voting would be required for each voter to end up with the "winner" for each voter? |
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10/31/2007 07:31:59 PM · #5 |
Originally posted by scarbrd:
how would the rating work at the end of the process to determine a winner, or 2nd or 3rd?
Does this mean that 100% voting would be required for each voter to end up with the "winner" for each voter? |
Pretty much so, yep. It's an interesting idea but unworkable in the DPC framework.
R.
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10/31/2007 07:39:58 PM · #6 |
If everyone was to vote on 100% of the entries, then ranking the photos makes sense to me ... however that won't work here.
It might be fun to experiment with a small special challenge, with maybe 20-30 entries only, just to compare the result with the standard 1-10 point system. |
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10/31/2007 07:44:13 PM · #7 |
The concept would work if we were only to pick the best. There would have to be a way to tally the number of 'best' votes each image got to determine ranking. In a challenge of 400+ entries this probably isn't practical.
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10/31/2007 08:08:12 PM · #8 |
If photos are displayed randomly, everytime someone picks one photo over another one gets bumped up and the other down. So by voting on 10% you can "help" push photos from best to worst.
I think this can work. |
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10/31/2007 08:22:58 PM · #9 |
I'm not taking sides here, but I just thought I would explain how this works, as there is a similar voting system in my yahoo hockey pool.
You do not have to vote on every single image. You can vote on as many or as little images as you want. (The 20% rule should probably still apply).
Two random images pop up side by side, and you choose which one you think is better. Percentages are the sum of the number of votes for the image divided by how many time it has been in voting. In the end, you end up with something like this:
jeger - 1st - 88.87% (3377 votes/3800 views)
Larus - 2nd - 87.18% (3381 votes/3878 views)
DrAchoo - 3rd - 86.48% (3243 votes/3750 views)
AlexSaberi - 4th - 86.32% (3263 votes/3780 views)
Etc, Etc.
Notice how I am at the top? ..lol
Just thought I would clarify how the system works. :)
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10/31/2007 08:23:23 PM · #10 |
Interesting ideas. I think voting on DPC could use some improvement. For one thing, there is nothing to prevent someone from voting all 10s or all 1's.
Something that would have a similar effect to the suggestion made, would be to require voting for a challenge to average 5. Obviously, someone could vote all 5's, but this wouldn't accomplish much. By requiring an average vote of between say 4.8 and 5.2, it would force people to evaluate photo merit relatively for a specific challenge.
It also might help break up some of the friend voting. If voters have to balance votes, it becomes harder to dole out 8,9,10's to friends as it would be more obvious to the vote abuse checker. It would also mean people have to look and evaluate photos of various qualities. This has a bonus in that some photos that don't look great in the thumbnails show their true merit when opened. People who don't look at photos whose thumbnails they don't like would be encouraged to take all the photos more seriously.
Requiring an average vote between 4.8 and 5.2 would also make voting more meaningful. It would help make one voter's "average" picks on par with another voter's average picks. Currently someone who give out an average of 4 in a challenge overly depresses the scores for the photos on which they vote Similarly, someone whose average vote for a challenge is 7 overly boosts the scores for images they vote on.
LG |
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10/31/2007 08:25:15 PM · #11 |
Originally posted by Veiolets:
For one thing, there is nothing to prevent someone from voting all 10s or all 1's. |
Yes, there is. Those votes would be discarded. |
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10/31/2007 08:25:52 PM · #12 |
I thought of this about a year ago, placing two photographs side-by-side and clicking on the photo you though was best, but after a few weeks of testing to see how would work I found it was not practical. The reason is because it would not be fair to all photographs and it would lengthen the voting process.
Lets address the issue of fairness.
If we had a challenge with 100 entries, no matter what random order DPC starts your voting point at it will be unfair. Photo1 maybe better than Photo2 and Photo3 better than photo1 but since you choose Photo1 over Photo2 how can you say Photo3 is better than Photo2 since you will not see them side-by-side.
Lengthening the voting process.
The only way to make this style of voting fair every photo must be compared with every other photo in the challenge. This means you would have to go through the side-by-side comparison several times before each photo has been compared to each other. Then the photo with the most votes would be the winner.
ETA: This may not be the exact way you are recommending.
Message edited by author 2007-10-31 20:27:46. |
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10/31/2007 08:28:52 PM · #13 |
ok, so maybe all 10's or all 1's would be discarded. But I don't think there is any constraint on a voter averaging 7, 8 or 9 or even 2,3 or 4 for that matter.
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Originally posted by Veiolets:
For one thing, there is nothing to prevent someone from voting all 10s or all 1's. |
Yes, there is. Those votes would be discarded. |
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10/31/2007 08:31:21 PM · #14 |
| As long as you vote consistently from photo to photo and challenge to chalenge it doesn't matter what particular criteria or rating system you use. |
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10/31/2007 09:21:26 PM · #15 |
This reminds me of how bubblesort algorithm works except this system only partly sorts the photographs as only a single pass is made through all the photos. N^2 votes would have to be made in order to completely sort all the entries.
Because only one pass is made photographs showing up closer to the end of the voting cycle would have an unfair advantage. This is because statistically there's a very low probability that a photograph popping up in the very first round of voting would trickle down to the very end and win.
Some other things to consider:
1. What if you're presented with two photos that you consider to be equal? The system would force you to have to choose.
2. What if you're presented with the two very best photographs in the very first round? You choose one and the second one is dropped off. Does it mean that it is now the worst photo of the challenge?
I think this system would work fairly well for choosing the best photograph of the competition but would be unfair in terms of ranking the rest of the photos.
Although, I guess, if you randomize the order then things will probably get averaged out alright...Again, maybe a system worth considering. |
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10/31/2007 09:53:13 PM · #16 |
| What about a hybrid system? Say you are presented with two random photos to choose from and after you've seen each photo once you are allowed to go back to a thumbnail page and do your own selective comparing and adjust accordingly. Maybe have an option of ranking your top 10 which will be weighed in along with the automated process? I suspect most voters do this already (i.e. compare shots and tweak the votes while sorting by vote). Having this hybrid system would help eliminate some of the unfairness that Scott brought up. |
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10/31/2007 10:38:41 PM · #17 |
I like the statistics that a numbers based voting system allows.
This is a neat idea though. Placement via bubble sort. What are the other sites you said use this method? |
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11/01/2007 01:05:21 AM · #18 |
| I say we could do a voting method based on some of the photography rules, like contrast, subject, color effect, exposure, lighting, rule of thirds, and such, have a 1-5 on each of them and add the score up on each of the 4 or 5 areas to build an overall score, although scoring would take a little longer because we would be individually looking at each aspect of the photo |
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11/01/2007 02:15:10 AM · #19 |
| I wouldn't like this method at all. I think the votes should be cast based on the individual merits of each photo and not compared to other photos in the challenge. |
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