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10/30/2007 12:11:57 PM · #151 |
Originally posted by muckpond:
Originally posted by HawkeyeLonewolf:
Originally posted by muckpond:
Originally posted by HawkeyeLonewolf:
Originally posted by muckpond:
Originally posted by karmat:
totally off topic, but it is an oversimplification to say God and Allah are one in the same. The Muslims I've talked to, read, heard, etc and the Christians I've talked to, read, and heard, don't believe this. It is good wordplay to smooth ruffled feathers, but the two are very much NOT the same. |
i did say that it was a horrendous oversimplification. but from what i've been taught and read and studied, i respectfully disagree with your opinion.
i would love to have a rational conversation about it with an interested group of people. i would like to hear why other think the way they do. i don't think a rant thread is the place to do it. |
I would agree they started the same, but the Muslims have a great distorted view of God. If Arabs came from Ishmael, then the Arab God is the same as the Christian/Jewish God. Islam started later with Muhammed going crazy in a cave. |
it is exactly that kind of language that tells me the words "rational discussion" are not part of your vocabulary. |
And it's insulting comments like that that make me fear for the quality of intelligence of the Site Council. |
so now you're not only dissatisfied with my belief system, but my intellectual level as well?
edited to add: no fewer than 3 SC members have been in here and have pretty much been on "your side" of the argument. why do you feel the need to denigrate all of us just because you disagree with me? |
I have never said I was disatisfied with your belief system.
You said "it is exactly that kind of language that tells me the words "rational discussion" are not part of your vocabulary." which in no uncertain terms called into question MY intelligence and rationality.
My comment was a defense, not an attack.
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10/30/2007 12:17:00 PM · #152 |
Originally posted by HawkeyeLonewolf:
You said "it is exactly that kind of language that tells me the words "rational discussion" are not part of your vocabulary." which in no uncertain terms called into question MY intelligence and rationality.
My comment was a defense, not an attack. |
so, "Muhammed going crazy in a cave" is intended to be part of a rational discussion about the tenets of islam? of course i'm going to consider you to be irrational if you make completely one-sided, unhelpful comments like that.
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10/30/2007 12:25:07 PM · #153 |
Originally posted by HawkeyeLonewolf:
Were Darwin still alive, he'd probably believe his nonsense. But once he died, he saw the truth. |
You've been to Heaven and asked him, eh? And here I thought Mohammed was the only one to have ascended to Heaven and then returned to Earth, to bring the Divine Word to the masses directly from the horse's mouth, as it were.
How much extra does it cost to book a round-trip ticket? I know many agnostics who might be more willing to accept salvation if they had the chance to scope out the neighborhood first.
Basically, the three "major" monotheistic religions all claim direct descent from Abraham, with the Jews being the descendants of Isaac and the Muslims being the descendants of Ishmael. The Christians are a sect which specifically follows the sayings of an ultra-orthodox Jew, claimed by some to be the fleshly manifestation of "God" (or "Yaweh," "Jehovah," or "Allah"). |
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10/30/2007 12:26:28 PM · #154 |
Personally, I think all religions are beautiful, pretty much. I happen to be Christian, but I think the Muslims, for example, have a beautiful holy book and a well-expressed belief system. I don't think the actions of "radical Muslims" invalidate their religion any more than I think, say, that the idiocies of right-wing, profit-motivated televangelists invalidate Christianity.
My position is that there's in fact only the one God, and that different peoples perceive Him in different ways.
Comments like "Mohammed going crazy in a cave" drive me absolutely batty: they are SO biased, SO bigoted, as to be off the charts.
R.
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10/30/2007 12:28:35 PM · #155 |
Originally posted by HawkeyeLonewolf:
Originally posted by noraneko:
 HawkeyeLonewolf I'm sorry to say but you come across as arrogant, single-minded and insulting here. Comments like the one you made below, "makes me fear for the quality of intelligence on the site council" are a cheap shot and should have no part in an intellectual discussion.
Many people in this thread have professed tolerance for Christian beliefs, but you don't seem to have tolerance for anyone else's beliefs. I'll bet you would be pretty insulted if someone approached you with a tract explaining why your salvation hinged upon becoming an atheist. Yet you seem to think it is the responsibility of the person approached, not the approachee, to leave? Somehow I doubt you would feel the same if you were approached by something you found offensive. I live in a nation that is supposed to be tolerant of all religious beliefs - and non-belief, if I chose. I tolerate your beliefs, and I don't call you stupid or belittle your intelligence. Please extend the same courtesy to those who don't share your beliefs. |
Jump to the aid of a SC member and ignore the facts. I am tolerant of other beliefs and have stated so. I admit I am intolerant of people attacking MY beliefs, which is what was going on. I suggest you pay attention more closely. |
I've read the whole thread. I saw no one attacking your beliefs. What I did see was responses to incendiary comments you made.
---->"Were Darwin still alive, he'd probably believe his nonsense. But once he died, he saw the truth."
---->"Muslims have a great distorted view of God. If Arabs came from Ishmael, then the Arab God is the same as the Christian/Jewish God. Islam started later with Muhammed going crazy in a cave."
Just a couple examples, above.
Message edited by author 2007-10-30 12:31:49. |
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10/30/2007 12:38:44 PM · #156 |
Originally posted by TCGuru:
AND, I will give 3 comments to the person who can tell me what the TRUE religious majority in the USA is :) {hint: it is NOT Christianity} |
Greed (a.k.a. laissez-faire Capitalism)
I used to belong to the Church of Monday Night Football, but I don't think they've been a majority since the departure of Howard Cosell.
Message edited by author 2007-10-30 12:39:22. |
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10/30/2007 12:40:20 PM · #157 |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Originally posted by TCGuru:
AND, I will give 3 comments to the person who can tell me what the TRUE religious majority in the USA is :) {hint: it is NOT Christianity} |
Greed (a.k.a. laissez-faire Capitalism)
I used to belong to the Church of Monday Night Football, but I don't think they've been a majority since the departure of Howard Cosell. |
and definitely not since they've moved to ESPN.
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10/30/2007 12:41:29 PM · #158 |
| Yo, you know whats a pretty awesome religion? Krsna Consciousness. TAKE THAT BOTH SIDES! |
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10/30/2007 12:41:53 PM · #159 |
Originally posted by muckpond:
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Originally posted by TCGuru:
AND, I will give 3 comments to the person who can tell me what the TRUE religious majority in the USA is :) {hint: it is NOT Christianity} |
Greed (a.k.a. laissez-faire Capitalism)
I used to belong to the Church of Monday Night Football, but I don't think they've been a majority since the departure of Howard Cosell. |
and definitely not since they've moved to ESPN. |
Did I mention I don't have cable? ;-) |
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10/30/2007 12:42:01 PM · #160 |
| MY GAWD LUK AT SITE COUNSEL TALKIN TO EACH UTHER IN A THREAD.....CONSPIRACY! |
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10/30/2007 12:44:27 PM · #161 |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Originally posted by TCGuru:
AND, I will give 3 comments to the person who can tell me what the TRUE religious majority in the USA is :) {hint: it is NOT Christianity} |
Greed (a.k.a. laissez-faire Capitalism)
I used to belong to the Church of Monday Night Football, but I don't think they've been a majority since the departure of Howard Cosell. |
LOLOL Good one though!! |
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10/30/2007 12:52:54 PM · #162 |
Originally posted by HawkeyeLonewolf:
Were Darwin still alive, he'd probably believe his nonsense. But once he died, he saw the truth. |
It boggles the mind that a rational and educated human being could dismiss evolution out of hand based on nothing but "belief", when even the Church from which all of your Christian dogma derives has conceded to its existence. Yes, the Catholic church has recognized and accepted evolution, though on the argument that it is of God's creation. The holiest men of Christiandom agree that Darwin got it right. Religion and science are not mutually exclusive. Evolution is not contrary to God, it is God. The fact is that the Creation story was probably never meant to be taken literally, but it does set forth that God created everything, and "everything" includes the evolutionary process. God's creation is more complex than any of us can begin to fathom, and attempting to oversimplify by sticking doggedly to the rhetoric of Genesis really doesn't give God enough credit when you consider how vast the universe's diversity truly must be. That's the argument as I understand it, and it's a notion I am perfectly willing to consider.
Different topic, but same point as it goes to respect for the beliefs of others: As a tolerant and open-minded Catholic, I side with the Wiccans of Rossville, Illinois, who want to open their own small faith-based school and whom the "good Christians" in the area are attacking, derisively calling the proposed school a "witch school" and an attack on family values. I know what Wicca is, and it's a beautiful idea that emphasizes tolerance for others and respect for nature. Apparently, according to the Christian residents of Rossville, Wicca is right up there with meth labs in terms of threats to the village. I'm disgusted at the so-called "Christian" attitude toward a small group of tolerant nature-minded people who just want to give their children some educational options.
And now this thread goes on ignore, because the Jesus freaks will never accept the idea that they should respect the opinions and beliefs of others, everyone else will get pissed at the dogged proselytizing and lack of respect that they're receiving, and everyone will just wind up angry without reaching any kind of conclusion whatsoever. Bye!
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10/30/2007 12:53:40 PM · #163 |
Originally posted by ajdelaware:
Yo, you know whats a pretty awesome religion? Krsna Consciousness. TAKE THAT BOTH SIDES! |
Festival of the Chariots, San Francisco (not my photo). |
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10/30/2007 12:56:54 PM · #164 |
Originally posted by muckpond:
Originally posted by HawkeyeLonewolf:
You said "it is exactly that kind of language that tells me the words "rational discussion" are not part of your vocabulary." which in no uncertain terms called into question MY intelligence and rationality.
My comment was a defense, not an attack. |
so, "Muhammed going crazy in a cave" is intended to be part of a rational discussion about the tenets of islam? of course i'm going to consider you to be irrational if you make completely one-sided, unhelpful comments like that. |
Sorry, it's pretty much a concise view many believe about him. It was not meant to be an irrational comment -- quite the contrary.
Regardless, my attack on your intelligence I do take back. This is a great site (except for the lack of wisdom on not fully implementing the adult content flag) and the Site Council is well run and pretty even-handed. Please forgive me.
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10/30/2007 01:00:33 PM · #165 |
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
Personally, I think all religions are beautiful, pretty much. I happen to be Christian, but I think the Muslims, for example, have a beautiful holy book and a well-expressed belief system. I don't think the actions of "radical Muslims" invalidate their religion any more than I think, say, that the idiocies of right-wing, profit-motivated televangelists invalidate Christianity.
My position is that there's in fact only the one God, and that different peoples perceive Him in different ways.
Comments like "Mohammed going crazy in a cave" drive me absolutely batty: they are SO biased, SO bigoted, as to be off the charts.
R. |
And comments like "I happen to be a Christian" and the contradictory "My position is that there's in fact only the one God, and that different peoples perceive Him in different ways." drive Christians batty to no end!
It is impossible to believe all religions to be equal. Because Christianity is based on Christ who taught that He was the only Way to God. So you can believe Christianity -- or you can believe that all religions BUT Christianity are equal. But to say they are all equal means calling Christ a liar and thus Christianity is false and therefore unless you believe all religions are false, you cannot equate them.
But then that's just logic.
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10/30/2007 01:01:45 PM · #166 |
Originally posted by Rebecca:
Originally posted by HawkeyeLonewolf:
Were Darwin still alive, he'd probably believe his nonsense. But once he died, he saw the truth. |
It boggles the mind that a rational and educated human being could dismiss evolution out of hand based on nothing but "belief", when even the Church from which all of your Christian dogma derives has conceded to its existence. Yes, the Catholic church has recognized and accepted evolution, though on the argument that it is of God's creation. The holiest men of Christiandom agree that Darwin got it right. Religion and science are not mutually exclusive. Evolution is not contrary to God, it is God. The fact is that the Creation story was probably never meant to be taken literally, but it does set forth that God created everything, and "everything" includes the evolutionary process. God's creation is more complex than any of us can begin to fathom, and attempting to oversimplify by sticking doggedly to the rhetoric of Genesis really doesn't give God enough credit when you consider how vast the universe's diversity truly must be. That's the argument as I understand it, and it's a notion I am perfectly willing to consider.
Different topic, but same point as it goes to respect for the beliefs of others: As a tolerant and open-minded Catholic, I side with the Wiccans of Rossville, Illinois, who want to open their own small faith-based school and whom the "good Christians" in the area are attacking, derisively calling the proposed school a "witch school" and an attack on family values. I know what Wicca is, and it's a beautiful idea that emphasizes tolerance for others and respect for nature. Apparently, according to the Christian residents of Rossville, Wicca is right up there with meth labs in terms of threats to the village. I'm disgusted at the so-called "Christian" attitude toward a small group of tolerant nature-minded people who just want to give their children some educational options.
And now this thread goes on ignore, because the Jesus freaks will never accept the idea that they should respect the opinions and beliefs of others, everyone else will get pissed at the dogged proselytizing and lack of respect that they're receiving, and everyone will just wind up angry without reaching any kind of conclusion whatsoever. Bye! |
Where did I say I dismissed evolution on belief? Conclusion jumper.
I dismiss evolution based on science.
And I'm Christian, not catholic. God's word is clearly six literal days and nothing in science discounts that but supports it. God created science too, remember? So while yes, the "Pope" of the Catholic faith embraced so-called "theistic evolution" as a compromise, Christian teachings do not.
Some Christians DO believe in theistic evolution, but not based on any plain, clear teaching of Scripture, but based on the misguided belief that science has disproven the Bible.
I suggest //answersingenesis.org for some great reading for those open-minded enough to dismiss junk science (like flat earth, evolution, and global warming)
Message edited by author 2007-10-30 13:05:27.
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10/30/2007 01:05:34 PM · #167 |
Originally posted by HawkeyeLonewolf:
Where did I say I dismissed evolution on belief? Conclusion jumper.
I dismiss evolution based on science. |
Contradiction. |
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10/30/2007 01:08:45 PM · #168 |
Originally posted by HawkeyeLonewolf:
And I'm Christian, not catholic. |
Ooh, first dodging your own rhetoric about Darwin, now implying that Catholics aren't Christian! NICE!
Please, just stop making yourself look arrogant and ridiculous.
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10/30/2007 01:09:35 PM · #169 |
Originally posted by TCGuru:
Originally posted by HawkeyeLonewolf:
Where did I say I dismissed evolution on belief? Conclusion jumper.
I dismiss evolution based on science. |
Contradiction. |
Where?
Science is not evolution and evolution is not science. Science is not creation either.
Science is the repeatable and testable study of the world around us.
Creation and Evolution are explanations of the origins of this world based on the study (Science) of the evidence we have (fossils, time, matter, etc.)
The THEORY of Evolution has changed over and over and over has new evidence is unearthed that confounds the previous version.
Creation has never changed nor has it needed to as the new evidence always fits right in with the creation model.
On occasion there have been claims that science has disproved evolution, but those claims have always been proven false when objective minds look at the evidence.
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10/30/2007 01:10:39 PM · #170 |
Originally posted by Rebecca:
Originally posted by HawkeyeLonewolf:
And I'm Christian, not catholic. |
Ooh, first dodging your own rhetoric about Darwin, now implying that Catholics aren't Christian! NICE!
Please, just stop making yourself look arrogant and ridiculous. |
I implied nothing.
I am not to say which persons are Christian and which are not. I can say that Roman Catholicism is patently NOT Christian.
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10/30/2007 01:16:22 PM · #171 |
Originally posted by HawkeyeLonewolf:
Regardless, my attack on your intelligence I do take back. This is a great site (except for the lack of wisdom on not fully implementing the adult content flag) and the Site Council is well run and pretty even-handed. Please forgive me. |
thank you.
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10/30/2007 01:19:12 PM · #172 |
Originally posted by HawkeyeLonewolf:
Originally posted by TCGuru:
Originally posted by HawkeyeLonewolf:
Where did I say I dismissed evolution on belief? Conclusion jumper.
I dismiss evolution based on science. |
Contradiction. |
Where?
Science is not evolution and evolution is not science. Science is not creation either.
Science is the repeatable and testable study of the world around us.
Creation and Evolution are explanations of the origins of this world based on the study (Science) of the evidence we have (fossils, time, matter, etc.)
The THEORY of Evolution has changed over and over and over has new evidence is unearthed that confounds the previous version.
Creation has never changed nor has it needed to as the new evidence always fits right in with the creation model.
On occasion there have been claims that science has disproved evolution, but those claims have always been proven false when objective minds look at the evidence. |
Because the THEORY of Evolution was created by a SCIENTIST. That's where. |
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10/30/2007 01:20:03 PM · #173 |
Originally posted by HawkeyeLonewolf:
I suggest //answersingenesis.org for some great reading for those open-minded enough to dismiss junk science (like flat earth, evolution, and global warming) |
...wait. what?
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10/30/2007 01:23:05 PM · #174 |
Originally posted by HawkeyeLonewolf:
Originally posted by Rebecca:
Originally posted by HawkeyeLonewolf:
And I'm Christian, not catholic. |
Ooh, first dodging your own rhetoric about Darwin, now implying that Catholics aren't Christian! NICE!
Please, just stop making yourself look arrogant and ridiculous. |
I implied nothing.
I am not to say which persons are Christian and which are not. I can say that Roman Catholicism is patently NOT Christian. |
Wow! My best friend, she's like my sister, is a devout Roman Catholic (I'm not), and she's a Christian through and through. I don't know how you can say stuff like this. |
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10/30/2007 01:23:48 PM · #175 |
Originally posted by muckpond:
Originally posted by HawkeyeLonewolf:
I suggest //answersingenesis.org for some great reading for those open-minded enough to dismiss junk science (like flat earth, evolution, and global warming) |
...wait. what? |
I'm scratching my head too LOL
okay people... 5 min to find that answer :) |
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